Necromancer Wizard is the one I think is most in need of an updated version. The subclass fills an important niche in fantasy no other subclass really encapsulates, making it a fairly critical subclass for reintroduction.
As presently written, however, the subclass is extremely problematic. Significant features of the subclass allow - and even encourage - the production of huge numbers of weak allies. This can produce extremely dull, long turns which bog down gameplay for everyone.
Considering how they have explicitly talked about how the Red Wizards will be featured as a playable faction in the upcoming adventure book, I think there is a high chance Necromancer is one of the subclasses included in those products.
Rogue: Swashbuckler looked like a shoe-in but was pulled in the last minute. I thought it provided a point-of-difference character choice for Rogues, so was disappointed when they replaced it with the Soul Blade (we have Assassins already and, to me, the inclusion of psychic Classes should be a DM choice).
Similarly, I wasn’t particularly enamoured by the Psychic subclasses for Fighter and Sorcerer, respectively. The Fighter struggled to find a 4th option, I think, because the Battle-Master was so versatile already (honestly, there was no need for a Pugilist when you could just build a Battlemaster with unarmed combat). However, thematically and traditionally, I’d have liked to see a Cavalier make a comeback. Just not sure how you’d do it.
For the Sorcerer, I’d basically like to have seen the Shadow Sorcerer rather than the Aberrant Mind. Equally creepy, but more of a point of difference to other options.
Finally, although I think the ‘core four’ Wizard subclasses were probably the best to start with, I think that the Necromancer and also the alchemical Transmuter are missed a bit for certain archetypes. These, however, could be made into Artificer sub-classes if wanted to do something really interesting. The Alchemist is already there of course, but having a Necormancer based on the Artificer (reanimating dead meat!) would make the sub-class really creepy and meaty.
Finally, I thought some of there quirky sub-classes, including the Bee-Keeper for Rangers and the Aladin-like Genie Warlock were really interesting.
Beyond this, I am actually really happy with most of the choices on offer as they stand.
Rather than sub classes I would like to see some old classes come back as classes like the Cavalier. And the barbarian as it was when originally made a class.
However, the barbarian as written was hard to have in a normal party.
What subclasses do you want to return in the 2024 ruleset?
In my opinion. I want all the AD&D Kit Classes, all the 3/3.5 classes and prestige classes, all the 4th edition classes, and all the 5.0 classes updated to 5.5. They have 50 years of DnD to pull from and they should make use of it.
I want everything updated to the 2024 ruleset that has been published by WotC, I would also like to see the Blood Hunter updated as well along with all the subclasses that are here on DDB but I'm greedy that way lol. I understand that all partnered content requires feedback from said partners for the sake of goodwill between DDB and those partners, but it doesn't need to be rushed I would rather have it done right
Necromancer Wizard is the one I think is most in need of an updated version. The subclass fills an important niche in fantasy no other subclass really encapsulates, making it a fairly critical subclass for reintroduction.
As presently written, however, the subclass is extremely problematic. Significant features of the subclass allow - and even encourage - the production of huge numbers of weak allies. This can produce extremely dull, long turns which bog down gameplay for everyone.
I'd argue necromancy received the most buffs in the 2024 PHB. The reprinted subclasses are barely any different, but wizard's necromancy spell list got a really high number of buffs:
Poison Spray was changed to Necromancy and had its range increased.
Toll the Dead from Xanathar's was included with the 2024 PHB.
False Life was given another 1d4 Temp HP and they no longer expire after 1 hour.
Ray of Enfeeblement now gives Disadvantage on all Strength D20 Tests subtracts 1d8 from all damage rolls, Strength-based or not. You also get Disadvantage on their next attack roll as a consolation prize if they make the save.
Summon Undead from Tasha's was also included with the 2024 PHB and it's only Summon spell that's not Conjuration. They literally special-cased that one so it would work with the Necromancer's features.
The only thing the 2014 subclasses are missing is the redesigned Savant feature that gives them guaranteed free spells instead of halving their gold cost and leaving it up to the DM to offer spell sources, but that's easy enough to house rule around.
What I would like to see is actually either the elimination or a major nerf rewrite of the scout rogue. You can make a ranger-rogue from the other rogue subclasses by using the proficiencies and xpertises on nature, survival, stealth and perception. As is, being given expertise in nature and survival along with all the latter benefits basically outdoes the ranger in its own (non spellcasting) area. At least tone it down from expertise to straight proficiency and require the use of your last two regular expertises if you want expertise in n them.you can even make a decent non caster gloomstalker analog by using the assassin subclass and decent spellcasting rogue-ranger by using the arcane trickster subclass. As for others that I would like to see how they redownload the bladesinger and hexblade are at the top of my lists.
Anything that hasn't been rereleased in the 2024 phb is still fair game. So all those older ones are still good. I think the more interesting question is what subclasses would we like to receive the 2024 treatment/buffs. So here's my list for that! A lot of subclasses will do just fine when you slap them on the 2024 base classes so this will focus on subclasses that maybe need some love anyway.
Battle rager and storm Harold Barbarian
whispers bard
Death domain cleric
Shepherd druid (very op but not sure it works with 2024 spells) and spores
Arcane archer fighter
Drunker master and ascendant dragon monk (and likely all monk subclasses). Honestly I'd love a redo on shadow too. I'm not a fan of devil sight/darkness builds
Redemption paladin
Horizon walker ranger (isn't actually that bad but I think could fit the theme better)
Mastermind and inquisitive rogue
Storm and shadow sorcerer
Hexblade Warlock doesn't really need any love but seeing as how a major part of the subclass is now an invocation it could use some attention
While I'm sure I'm going to be stuck waiting for a '24 Edition Draconomicon, I'd love to see an updated Drakewarden Ranger. While functionally very similar to the Beast Master, it does have its own fun flavor. ...Admittedly, that subclass fantasy really takes far too long to come online with the Fizban's '14 version, though, and the hook-feature to the 'How To Train Your Dragon' fantasy of flying around on drakeback doesn't happen 'till level 15 - Far too late, I'd argue, to feel important or functional in most campaigns. I'd love to see that occur a little earlier, perhaps in the level 11 Subclass slot. I'd still think that the non-flight features probably need to remain at level 15, or even be readapted into a new feature altogether.
Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout and Swashbuckler rogue all need to come back with a fresh face lift.
As for other classes: Ancestral Guardian, Battle Rager and Storm Herald barbarian, Death, Knowledge, Order and Tempest domain cleric, Sheperd, Spores and Wildfire druid, arcane archer, cavalier and purple dragon knight fighter, drunken master and sun soul monk, oath of redemption and oath of watcher paladin, Horizon Walker and Swarmkeeper ranger, Divine Soul, Shadow and Storm sorcerer, Genie and Undead/Undying warlock, all the remaining wizard school subclasses.
Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout and Swashbuckler rogue all need to come back with a fresh face lift.
Yes, for me, one of the regrettable aspects of the modern D&D rules is just how few options are provided for non-spell casting characters.
Traditionally, the Fighter and the Rogue are non-casters. We’ve included the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster for some time and, to be fair, they are popular subclasses but I thought the addition of the Psi-subclasses an overkill of ‘powered’ subclasses.
Admittedly, the Battlemaster is versatile enough to build a wide variety of character archetypes but Rogues are left with just Thieves and Assassins. Considering the number of characters that would fit the archetypes of Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout and Swashbuckler in fantasy fiction it is a shame they miss out.
Might sound strange but I'd like them to focus on the D tier options that are basically either broken or vastly underpowered. Updating things like Swashbuckler would just give us two versions of a subclass that is already decent, might as well use the 2014 version on a 2024 chassis, but updating something like Battle Rager Barbarian to the point it's worth actually playing gives us something new
Honestly, only the ones that don't work at the moment.
They can only do so many subclasses at a time. I'd rather they spent those bringing new options to the table rather than replacing perfectly good ones already on the table. That can be new ones, it can also be ones that aren't viable options at the moment, like NecroWizard, Purple Dragon Knight, etc.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
While i agree D-tier subclasses should get another pass (purple dragon knight, battle rager, sun soul) i wouldn't say that other favorites shouldn't get a facelift too.
Swashbuckler for example should be played with a rapier for the flavor, but since rogues now have weapon masteries, and for rapier it is Vex, makes the Rakish Audacity feature not as worthwhile anymore, since you can easily create your own advantage with any Vex weapon. For a updated Swasbuckler i think a update would for Rakish Audacity would incorporate the vex feature, making it so you can use the advantage from Vex on other targets too. Panache uses a contested Check, which is not a thing anymore and would have to be replaced by a saving throw, and Master Duelist is heavily overshadowed by the new Boon of Combat Prowess.
And similar things should be considered for other old subclasses. Most of them will need at least a few adjustments to work good with the new rules.
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For me, I will list them by class.
Barbarian: Path of the Beast, Path of the Giant
Bard: College of Eloquence
Cleric: Forge Domain, Twilight Domain
Druid: Circle of Spores
Fighter: Echo Knight, Samurai
Monk: N/A
Paladin: Oathbreaker, Oath of Conquest
Ranger: N/A
Rouge: Swashbuckler
Sorcerer: Shadow Sorcerer
Warlock: The Fathomless, The Hexblade
Wizard: Chronourgy Wizard, Enchanter, Necromancer
Chronurgy and Echo Knight are third party - Critical Role.
Necromancer Wizard is the one I think is most in need of an updated version. The subclass fills an important niche in fantasy no other subclass really encapsulates, making it a fairly critical subclass for reintroduction.
As presently written, however, the subclass is extremely problematic. Significant features of the subclass allow - and even encourage - the production of huge numbers of weak allies. This can produce extremely dull, long turns which bog down gameplay for everyone.
Considering how they have explicitly talked about how the Red Wizards will be featured as a playable faction in the upcoming adventure book, I think there is a high chance Necromancer is one of the subclasses included in those products.
All of them. Variety is the spice of life.
Rune knight
Rogue: Swashbuckler looked like a shoe-in but was pulled in the last minute. I thought it provided a point-of-difference character choice for Rogues, so was disappointed when they replaced it with the Soul Blade (we have Assassins already and, to me, the inclusion of psychic Classes should be a DM choice).
Similarly, I wasn’t particularly enamoured by the Psychic subclasses for Fighter and Sorcerer, respectively. The Fighter struggled to find a 4th option, I think, because the Battle-Master was so versatile already (honestly, there was no need for a Pugilist when you could just build a Battlemaster with unarmed combat). However, thematically and traditionally, I’d have liked to see a Cavalier make a comeback. Just not sure how you’d do it.
For the Sorcerer, I’d basically like to have seen the Shadow Sorcerer rather than the Aberrant Mind. Equally creepy, but more of a point of difference to other options.
Finally, although I think the ‘core four’ Wizard subclasses were probably the best to start with, I think that the Necromancer and also the alchemical Transmuter are missed a bit for certain archetypes. These, however, could be made into Artificer sub-classes if wanted to do something really interesting. The Alchemist is already there of course, but having a Necormancer based on the Artificer (reanimating dead meat!) would make the sub-class really creepy and meaty.
Finally, I thought some of there quirky sub-classes, including the Bee-Keeper for Rangers and the Aladin-like Genie Warlock were really interesting.
Beyond this, I am actually really happy with most of the choices on offer as they stand.
Rather than sub classes I would like to see some old classes come back as classes like the Cavalier. And the barbarian as it was when originally made a class.
However, the barbarian as written was hard to have in a normal party.
What subclasses do you want to return in the 2024 ruleset?
In my opinion. I want all the AD&D Kit Classes, all the 3/3.5 classes and prestige classes, all the 4th edition classes, and all the 5.0 classes updated to 5.5. They have 50 years of DnD to pull from and they should make use of it.
Genie Warlock! Great flavor and so much roleplaying potential
I want everything updated to the 2024 ruleset that has been published by WotC, I would also like to see the Blood Hunter updated as well along with all the subclasses that are here on DDB but I'm greedy that way lol. I understand that all partnered content requires feedback from said partners for the sake of goodwill between DDB and those partners, but it doesn't need to be rushed I would rather have it done right
Necromancer, Undead Warlock, Grave Cleric, Kensei, and Cavalier are at the top of my list of wants.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
They're all still available.
I'd argue necromancy received the most buffs in the 2024 PHB. The reprinted subclasses are barely any different, but wizard's necromancy spell list got a really high number of buffs:
If you have Xanathar's and Tasha's you can slap Spirit Shroud, Enervation and Danse Macabre on top of all that.
The only thing the 2014 subclasses are missing is the redesigned Savant feature that gives them guaranteed free spells instead of halving their gold cost and leaving it up to the DM to offer spell sources, but that's easy enough to house rule around.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
What I would like to see is actually either the elimination or a major nerf rewrite of the scout rogue. You can make a ranger-rogue from the other rogue subclasses by using the proficiencies and xpertises on nature, survival, stealth and perception. As is, being given expertise in nature and survival along with all the latter benefits basically outdoes the ranger in its own (non spellcasting) area. At least tone it down from expertise to straight proficiency and require the use of your last two regular expertises if you want expertise in n them.you can even make a decent non caster gloomstalker analog by using the assassin subclass and decent spellcasting rogue-ranger by using the arcane trickster subclass.
As for others that I would like to see how they redownload the bladesinger and hexblade are at the top of my lists.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Anything that hasn't been rereleased in the 2024 phb is still fair game. So all those older ones are still good. I think the more interesting question is what subclasses would we like to receive the 2024 treatment/buffs. So here's my list for that! A lot of subclasses will do just fine when you slap them on the 2024 base classes so this will focus on subclasses that maybe need some love anyway.
Battle rager and storm Harold Barbarian
whispers bard
Death domain cleric
Shepherd druid (very op but not sure it works with 2024 spells) and spores
Arcane archer fighter
Drunker master and ascendant dragon monk (and likely all monk subclasses). Honestly I'd love a redo on shadow too. I'm not a fan of devil sight/darkness builds
Redemption paladin
Horizon walker ranger (isn't actually that bad but I think could fit the theme better)
Mastermind and inquisitive rogue
Storm and shadow sorcerer
Hexblade Warlock doesn't really need any love but seeing as how a major part of the subclass is now an invocation it could use some attention
War magic and transmutation wizards
Slightly off topic, but artificer!!
While I'm sure I'm going to be stuck waiting for a '24 Edition Draconomicon, I'd love to see an updated Drakewarden Ranger. While functionally very similar to the Beast Master, it does have its own fun flavor.
...Admittedly, that subclass fantasy really takes far too long to come online with the Fizban's '14 version, though, and the hook-feature to the 'How To Train Your Dragon' fantasy of flying around on drakeback doesn't happen 'till level 15 - Far too late, I'd argue, to feel important or functional in most campaigns. I'd love to see that occur a little earlier, perhaps in the level 11 Subclass slot. I'd still think that the non-flight features probably need to remain at level 15, or even be readapted into a new feature altogether.
Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout and Swashbuckler rogue all need to come back with a fresh face lift.
As for other classes: Ancestral Guardian, Battle Rager and Storm Herald barbarian, Death, Knowledge, Order and Tempest domain cleric, Sheperd, Spores and Wildfire druid, arcane archer, cavalier and purple dragon knight fighter, drunken master and sun soul monk, oath of redemption and oath of watcher paladin, Horizon Walker and Swarmkeeper ranger, Divine Soul, Shadow and Storm sorcerer, Genie and Undead/Undying warlock, all the remaining wizard school subclasses.
Yes, for me, one of the regrettable aspects of the modern D&D rules is just how few options are provided for non-spell casting characters.
Traditionally, the Fighter and the Rogue are non-casters. We’ve included the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster for some time and, to be fair, they are popular subclasses but I thought the addition of the Psi-subclasses an overkill of ‘powered’ subclasses.
Admittedly, the Battlemaster is versatile enough to build a wide variety of character archetypes but Rogues are left with just Thieves and Assassins. Considering the number of characters that would fit the archetypes of Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout and Swashbuckler in fantasy fiction it is a shame they miss out.
Might sound strange but I'd like them to focus on the D tier options that are basically either broken or vastly underpowered. Updating things like Swashbuckler would just give us two versions of a subclass that is already decent, might as well use the 2014 version on a 2024 chassis, but updating something like Battle Rager Barbarian to the point it's worth actually playing gives us something new
Honestly, only the ones that don't work at the moment.
They can only do so many subclasses at a time. I'd rather they spent those bringing new options to the table rather than replacing perfectly good ones already on the table. That can be new ones, it can also be ones that aren't viable options at the moment, like NecroWizard, Purple Dragon Knight, etc.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
While i agree D-tier subclasses should get another pass (purple dragon knight, battle rager, sun soul) i wouldn't say that other favorites shouldn't get a facelift too.
Swashbuckler for example should be played with a rapier for the flavor, but since rogues now have weapon masteries, and for rapier it is Vex, makes the Rakish Audacity feature not as worthwhile anymore, since you can easily create your own advantage with any Vex weapon. For a updated Swasbuckler i think a update would for Rakish Audacity would incorporate the vex feature, making it so you can use the advantage from Vex on other targets too. Panache uses a contested Check, which is not a thing anymore and would have to be replaced by a saving throw, and Master Duelist is heavily overshadowed by the new Boon of Combat Prowess.
And similar things should be considered for other old subclasses. Most of them will need at least a few adjustments to work good with the new rules.