So I’m playing fifth edition with a few guys I’ve become friends with from work. Over the course of lost mines of phandelver which we managed to stretch out over a larger amount of time due to role-playing my DM had offered celestial warlock to me as a spellcaster even though I wanted wizard or sorcerer stating that because of our characters small village background the others weren’t available. Eventually I lost the pact due to disagreements with my celestial patron (angel of vengeance) over the use of my powers. I was then picked up by Lady Lolth under the fiend patron and frankly was enjoying it mechanicly and role playing wise as I’m really not interested in playing a Paladin type this time around. Due to story reasons (not murdering the leader of the wood elves and not delivering the mines into her hands for the use in conquering the surface) I lost Lolth’s favor. So upon Phandalin’s completion we returned to our home village only to find it burning in a Drow raid. We rush in to fight. Despite valiant attempts we are defeated and my character’s in game brother and my real life brother’s character is dying due to a Dreagaloth. Time stops and the celestial appears to me and offers me one last chance to serve her and in return his brother will live. I accept
Story wise it all makes sense but over time it’s become clear my Dm has a pre determined path for me. Recently I asked if I could use the new cantrips such as green flame blade, lightning lure, etc. to which he said I could not.
It seems silly but I feel like I have no player agency. Like I’m playing someone else’s character. This along with feeling overwhelmingly underpowered makes it really hard to enjoy a character I want to love . I’d join a different group but having looked there are none in my area. Talking to him about these issues has resulted in little change.
Any thoughts on how I can make my celestial warlock more enjoyable or thoughts in general would be much appreciated.
When I have a character concept, I go to my DM and say "I want to play XYZ. How can we fit that into the story so it makes sense?" As a player, you should be able to decide what sort of character you play. I think it was unfair for him to tell you which class to play to start with--there is no opportunity for a wizard (which is much more common than a warlock) to be in a village? Really? Tell him plainly what you want to play. "I don't want to play a celestial warlock because I've played paladin-type characters before and want to try something new." Then, to circumvent "why" you can't, give a "story" or two that rationalizes what is going on. For example, if you want to stay with the fiend pact...fiends oppose each other all the time and snubbing Lolth doesn't bar you from serving a different fiend. In fact, a fiend may find your betrayal simply tantalizing and forms a pact with you just for its entertainment.
Warlocks have a lot of interesting RP potential. Giving your DM the benefit of the doubt, maybe he thinks he's written a really cool arc for your character and doesn't even realize it's quashing your fun. Have you talked to any of the other players in your group about this?
I honestly wouldn't play in that DM's game. They're obviously controlling and playing their game as opposed to the game with a group. And if you've already talked with them about it, then I think it comes down to the saying, "No D&D is better than bad D&D."
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Alright alright alright before you jump ship -- have you sat the DM down and discussed your feelings with them? I've known some DMs/players/collaborators who think that they're doing a great job, when they're being highly controlling and not leaving their partner/player/collaborator/teammates any agency-- and they don't realize it. It's worth talking with them first. If they either react negatively, or they give you honeyed words (aka they make no effort to change) THEN leave the game... But I think talking about your problems is step #1.
So many forced changes to the basic core of your character is abusive. I'd probably regret it but I'd quit. Are the other players having similar issues?
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
It seems silly but I feel like I have no player agency. Like I’m playing someone else’s character.
This is something a terrible DM does. The players are not just characters in a play that the DM is putting on. I think there should probably be some limits to what types of races and classes the PCs can use (needs to fit the setting, all PCs need to be on relatively equal footing, etc). It's up to the DM to set the parameters, but within them everyone should be free to play what they want. It should also not be determined by fiat. If you've got a concept in mind, a good DM will work with you to make it work.
If the DM wants everyone to be a certain class and behave a certain way, he can go home and write a novel. As others have said, if he won't bend on this, tell him to piss up a rope and then find a new game. FWIW, I think coming from a small village is entirely appropriate for a sorcerer.
Feeling overwhelmingly underpowered makes it really hard to enjoy a character I want to love.
This is a more interesting question, to me. Not wanting to play a certain concept, like a celestial warlock, is entirely reasonable. But why do you feel underpowered? Compared to a fiend warlock? Compared to the rest of the party?
Underpowered as a spellcaster in general. I felt as a fiendlock I could feel decent damage and have survivability. In addition I play a half Drow but now I’m being told I’m not even really a Drow but a “twilight elf”. We play in the forgotten realms but a lot of it has been changed. Magic is illegal and hated. Most of the gods are dead and there’s basically a nine divine now. Major factions such as the harpers aren’t good any more but self serving. 90% of the regular elves have left feurun. There’s just a lot I have issues with. A lot of it is me being picky of the setting but our characters and player bench suffers. My battlemaster friend can’t multiclass totem because “it’s broken” and our rogue is being nudged into beast master instead of gloom stalker.
Celestial warlocks don't differ too much from fiend warlocks at lower levels. Assuming you're 5th or below, you trade getting a few temporary hit points if you kill something (you, not your friends) for the ability to restore a ton of HP to you or anyone else. I think the celestial gets the better of the survivability argument. The celestial gets Sacred Flame and Light for free, leaving you to fill the other cantrip slots with other useful stuff. The subclass-specific spell options are different but not unequal in utility. IE, Burning Hands is nifty, but it's not "better" than Guiding Bolt. They both have pluses and minuses.
If magic is hated/illegal in your setting, then choose your invocations so that it's not obvious you're doing magic. If you go Pact of the Blade you can be quite useful as a damage dealer with invocations like Improved Pact Weapon and Thirsting Blade, and no one will know it's magic without a lot of effort. If using magic in his world causes a lot of trouble in that society, I'd much rather be a warlock than a wizard or sorcerer.
All of that may be contrary to how you want to play though, in which case refer to my previous comment about ropes and what the DM can do with them.
I think that you should ask them a chance to change it one last time, and if that doesn't work leave. Also, play-by-post is an option if looking for a group to play with.
Well, that does make it a little harder. If you picked that yourself, it may have been a tactical error on your part given the anti-magic setting. If the DM set up magic as exceptionally difficult and then made you take Pact of the Tome, he's an even bigger jackass than previously assumed.
I picked pact of the tome because I felt our group needed a caster as we have a battlemaster and a scout. So far being a spellcaster has helped incredibly but I often feel penalized for being one - not in role play as I hide it but in actual uses of said magic. I’m a half Drow so I get a a lot of flak anyway - well until now. Apparently he’s saying I’m not really even a half Drow but something else (twilight elf?) which I did not agree to.
Currently we are in out of the Abyss and have just escaped the outpost. The Dwarf and gnome were fed to spiders and though the roll was random (they weren’t the ones suppose to be eaten.) I saw two others were to be killed. Not the two who were potentially the most useful in escaping : / . Despite two days of rest (I didn’t get a successful long rest but should have gotten a short rest) I didn’t regain my spells. Eventually we killed the guards by blasting two Quagoths off the cliff and killing the two veteran Drow in 3 rounds. Yet somehow the alarm was sounded. Killed off the guards in Barack’s. Deal with ye spider in the priestess’ room and yet haven’t found any of our gear. Our money, magic items , and equipment is nowhere to be found.
We are met by the Drow priestess and thirty - yes count thirty Drow warriors blocking our exit! Demons appear and start attacking everyone - including us immediately.
Battlemaster has 4 hp, scout has half, I have 1 hp plus two levels of exhaustion as well as wounds ( -2 to physical abilities) a broken arm from phandelver that’ll take two weeks to fix with a successful heal check every day. So no d8 shilleleigh. Disadvantaged hearing from a lightning blast we took that downed me. Poisoned from Drow poisoned bolts. Finally we lept off into the webs and burned our way through and fell down a underground river way in which I drowned and failed all my saves and died. Then because of it the scout was allowed to resuscitate me so I could live. Felt really cheap and cheated. I don’t want a pitty resurrection I want to be given an adventure where I succeed or fail by my own merits. 😞
He says we chose this path but it feels completely pre selected for us. Like no matter what we do we are following what he plans.
Change what exactly ? My pact from tome to blade? My patron? If it’s patron I don’t think that’s possible. He’s been very adamant about ensuring I’m celestial and trying to make me regret going fiend for a bit. Oddly enough According to him I still have my contract with Lolth so my soul belongs to her (despite being celestial now) but she won’t give me powers and wants me dead. -_-
This is way out of hand, with unnatural moments where you can't win no matter what you do, or win for no reason, all for the sake of the DM's predetermined plot. Check with the group if they also have concerns. Then, everyone with concerns talks to the DM. If no change is made, leave.
This is way out of hand, with unnatural moments where you can't win no matter what you do, or win for no reason, all for the sake of the DM's predetermined plot. Check with the group if they also have concerns. Then, everyone with concerns talks to the DM. If no change is made, leave.
I picked pact of the tome because I felt our group needed a caster as we have a battlemaster and a scout. So far being a spellcaster has helped incredibly but I often feel penalized for being one - not in role play as I hide it but in actual uses of said magic.
<snip>
He says we chose this path but it feels completely pre selected for us. Like no matter what we do we are following what he plans.
No doubt, being a spell caster is useful, especially if there aren't others in the party. On the other hand, if the DM is going to beat you over the head with penalties for being one, it may still be a net positive to go a different route.
But overall I firmly agree with the general sentiment in this thread. Level with the DM and tell him you are not having fun, for the reasons you've explained here: not getting to play the (entirely reasonable) character you want, not being allowed to make adventuring decisions but instead being railroaded, etc. If he pushes back even a little bit, walk away. Why continue to punish yourself by doing something you're not enjoying?
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So I’m playing fifth edition with a few guys I’ve become friends with from work. Over the course of lost mines of phandelver which we managed to stretch out over a larger amount of time due to role-playing my DM had offered celestial warlock to me as a spellcaster even though I wanted wizard or sorcerer stating that because of our characters small village background the others weren’t available. Eventually I lost the pact due to disagreements with my celestial patron (angel of vengeance) over the use of my powers. I was then picked up by Lady Lolth under the fiend patron and frankly was enjoying it mechanicly and role playing wise as I’m really not interested in playing a Paladin type this time around. Due to story reasons (not murdering the leader of the wood elves and not delivering the mines into her hands for the use in conquering the surface) I lost Lolth’s favor. So upon Phandalin’s completion we returned to our home village only to find it burning in a Drow raid. We rush in to fight. Despite valiant attempts we are defeated and my character’s in game brother and my real life brother’s character is dying due to a Dreagaloth. Time stops and the celestial appears to me and offers me one last chance to serve her and in return his brother will live. I accept
Story wise it all makes sense but over time it’s become clear my Dm has a pre determined path for me. Recently I asked if I could use the new cantrips such as green flame blade, lightning lure, etc. to which he said I could not.
It seems silly but I feel like I have no player agency. Like I’m playing someone else’s character. This along with feeling overwhelmingly underpowered makes it really hard to enjoy a character I want to love . I’d join a different group but having looked there are none in my area. Talking to him about these issues has resulted in little change.
Any thoughts on how I can make my celestial warlock more enjoyable or thoughts in general would be much appreciated.
thanks fellow gamers
When I have a character concept, I go to my DM and say "I want to play XYZ. How can we fit that into the story so it makes sense?" As a player, you should be able to decide what sort of character you play. I think it was unfair for him to tell you which class to play to start with--there is no opportunity for a wizard (which is much more common than a warlock) to be in a village? Really? Tell him plainly what you want to play. "I don't want to play a celestial warlock because I've played paladin-type characters before and want to try something new." Then, to circumvent "why" you can't, give a "story" or two that rationalizes what is going on. For example, if you want to stay with the fiend pact...fiends oppose each other all the time and snubbing Lolth doesn't bar you from serving a different fiend. In fact, a fiend may find your betrayal simply tantalizing and forms a pact with you just for its entertainment.
Warlocks have a lot of interesting RP potential. Giving your DM the benefit of the doubt, maybe he thinks he's written a really cool arc for your character and doesn't even realize it's quashing your fun. Have you talked to any of the other players in your group about this?
I honestly wouldn't play in that DM's game. They're obviously controlling and playing their game as opposed to the game with a group. And if you've already talked with them about it, then I think it comes down to the saying, "No D&D is better than bad D&D."
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
I’d find another DM too. Your DM is railroading you way too much.
Professional computer geek
Alright alright alright before you jump ship -- have you sat the DM down and discussed your feelings with them? I've known some DMs/players/collaborators who think that they're doing a great job, when they're being highly controlling and not leaving their partner/player/collaborator/teammates any agency-- and they don't realize it. It's worth talking with them first. If they either react negatively, or they give you honeyed words (aka they make no effort to change) THEN leave the game... But I think talking about your problems is step #1.
No offence, Mellie, but:
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
I read it twice and still managed to miss that! Womp womp.
So many forced changes to the basic core of your character is abusive. I'd probably regret it but I'd quit. Are the other players having similar issues?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
This is something a terrible DM does. The players are not just characters in a play that the DM is putting on. I think there should probably be some limits to what types of races and classes the PCs can use (needs to fit the setting, all PCs need to be on relatively equal footing, etc). It's up to the DM to set the parameters, but within them everyone should be free to play what they want. It should also not be determined by fiat. If you've got a concept in mind, a good DM will work with you to make it work.
If the DM wants everyone to be a certain class and behave a certain way, he can go home and write a novel. As others have said, if he won't bend on this, tell him to piss up a rope and then find a new game. FWIW, I think coming from a small village is entirely appropriate for a sorcerer.
This is a more interesting question, to me. Not wanting to play a certain concept, like a celestial warlock, is entirely reasonable. But why do you feel underpowered? Compared to a fiend warlock? Compared to the rest of the party?
Underpowered as a spellcaster in general. I felt as a fiendlock I could feel decent damage and have survivability. In addition I play a half Drow but now I’m being told I’m not even really a Drow but a “twilight elf”. We play in the forgotten realms but a lot of it has been changed. Magic is illegal and hated. Most of the gods are dead and there’s basically a nine divine now. Major factions such as the harpers aren’t good any more but self serving. 90% of the regular elves have left feurun. There’s just a lot I have issues with. A lot of it is me being picky of the setting but our characters and player bench suffers. My battlemaster friend can’t multiclass totem because “it’s broken” and our rogue is being nudged into beast master instead of gloom stalker.
Celestial warlocks don't differ too much from fiend warlocks at lower levels. Assuming you're 5th or below, you trade getting a few temporary hit points if you kill something (you, not your friends) for the ability to restore a ton of HP to you or anyone else. I think the celestial gets the better of the survivability argument. The celestial gets Sacred Flame and Light for free, leaving you to fill the other cantrip slots with other useful stuff. The subclass-specific spell options are different but not unequal in utility. IE, Burning Hands is nifty, but it's not "better" than Guiding Bolt. They both have pluses and minuses.
If magic is hated/illegal in your setting, then choose your invocations so that it's not obvious you're doing magic. If you go Pact of the Blade you can be quite useful as a damage dealer with invocations like Improved Pact Weapon and Thirsting Blade, and no one will know it's magic without a lot of effort. If using magic in his world causes a lot of trouble in that society, I'd much rather be a warlock than a wizard or sorcerer.
All of that may be contrary to how you want to play though, in which case refer to my previous comment about ropes and what the DM can do with them.
Already pact of the tome. Sixth level.
I think that you should ask them a chance to change it one last time, and if that doesn't work leave. Also, play-by-post is an option if looking for a group to play with.
Well, that does make it a little harder. If you picked that yourself, it may have been a tactical error on your part given the anti-magic setting. If the DM set up magic as exceptionally difficult and then made you take Pact of the Tome, he's an even bigger jackass than previously assumed.
I picked pact of the tome because I felt our group needed a caster as we have a battlemaster and a scout. So far being a spellcaster has helped incredibly but I often feel penalized for being one - not in role play as I hide it but in actual uses of said magic. I’m a half Drow so I get a a lot of flak anyway - well until now. Apparently he’s saying I’m not really even a half Drow but something else (twilight elf?) which I did not agree to.
Currently we are in out of the Abyss and have just escaped the outpost. The Dwarf and gnome were fed to spiders and though the roll was random (they weren’t the ones suppose to be eaten.) I saw two others were to be killed. Not the two who were potentially the most useful in escaping : / . Despite two days of rest (I didn’t get a successful long rest but should have gotten a short rest) I didn’t regain my spells. Eventually we killed the guards by blasting two Quagoths off the cliff and killing the two veteran Drow in 3 rounds. Yet somehow the alarm was sounded. Killed off the guards in Barack’s. Deal with ye spider in the priestess’ room and yet haven’t found any of our gear. Our money, magic items , and equipment is nowhere to be found.
We are met by the Drow priestess and thirty - yes count thirty Drow warriors blocking our exit! Demons appear and start attacking everyone - including us immediately.
Battlemaster has 4 hp, scout has half, I have 1 hp plus two levels of exhaustion as well as wounds ( -2 to physical abilities) a broken arm from phandelver that’ll take two weeks to fix with a successful heal check every day. So no d8 shilleleigh. Disadvantaged hearing from a lightning blast we took that downed me. Poisoned from Drow poisoned bolts. Finally we lept off into the webs and burned our way through and fell down a underground river way in which I drowned and failed all my saves and died. Then because of it the scout was allowed to resuscitate me so I could live. Felt really cheap and cheated. I don’t want a pitty resurrection I want to be given an adventure where I succeed or fail by my own merits. 😞
He says we chose this path but it feels completely pre selected for us. Like no matter what we do we are following what he plans.
Change what exactly ? My pact from tome to blade? My patron? If it’s patron I don’t think that’s possible. He’s been very adamant about ensuring I’m celestial and trying to make me regret going fiend for a bit. Oddly enough According to him I still have my contract with Lolth so my soul belongs to her (despite being celestial now) but she won’t give me powers and wants me dead. -_-
This is way out of hand, with unnatural moments where you can't win no matter what you do, or win for no reason, all for the sake of the DM's predetermined plot. Check with the group if they also have concerns. Then, everyone with concerns talks to the DM. If no change is made, leave.
I agree completely
Professional computer geek
No doubt, being a spell caster is useful, especially if there aren't others in the party. On the other hand, if the DM is going to beat you over the head with penalties for being one, it may still be a net positive to go a different route.
But overall I firmly agree with the general sentiment in this thread. Level with the DM and tell him you are not having fun, for the reasons you've explained here: not getting to play the (entirely reasonable) character you want, not being allowed to make adventuring decisions but instead being railroaded, etc. If he pushes back even a little bit, walk away. Why continue to punish yourself by doing something you're not enjoying?