Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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I wish WOTC would work with Luke Gygax and just establish a uniform set of D&D Rules and then just leave it alone. Every iteration breaks things. The errata in the physical books is horrible enough. We should all get new, updated books as replacements. WOTC is ruining this game.
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ModeratorApproaching in good faith- Every edition of D&D is this.
Original D&D had flaws. Basic D&D had flaws. 1e AD&D had flaws. 2e AD&D had flaws. 3e, 3.5, 4e, and 5e have flaws. All of them had a little revision some point through (1e UA, 2e revised, 3e to 3.5, 4e Essentials. Basic had multiple revisions.)
Rules occasionally need to be errata'd. Typos fixed or unintending rule interactions clarified. New material is needed to keep the game fresh and alive. Same as it was for TSR or WotC.
No one person is going to be able to fix that issue and make a set of robust rules that will cover everything the player base desires and keep up with changing preferences in gamestyle. And for those who prefer the older editions, they can still play those. In fact the communities based around those older editions even end up making their own changes and systems. OSE, DCC, Pathfinder, Drawsteel, all of these take inspiration from older editions of D&D. (Also because let's face it, no one runs AD&D straight out of the box, you need the community patches).
Honestly the core rulebooks over time have become a lot better at being able to use 'RAW', without so many houserules and homebrew to patch them up. And even then, I don't think there is any TTRPG folk run purely RAW with no houserules or homebrew at all.
I'd focus on your main points of frustration with a system, and what you thinks doesn't work.
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Even Gary Gygax said he didn’t run 1e as it was written
As for “a uniform edition and leave it alone” didn’t you see all the One DnD prepublicity? The edition you’re complaining about was billed as being exactly that. We all know it won’t be because sales drop and new editions come along to boost them but what makes you think that your mythical one and only edition won’t be something you consider broken and in need or errata?
a) Why Luke Gygax? His father hasn't had input into the system since the 90s. And 1st Edition was horribly broken in parts. 2nd Edition was horribly broken in parts. 3 had broken parts that were refined in 3.5 yet there were still horribly broken parts. 4e was just.. broken. And 5th Edition has broken parts that were refined in 5.5. 5.5 has some sharp edges, but mechanically it's by far one of the most refined.
b) So your suggestion is to make ... a new iteration?
c) We live in a new Golden Age of TTRPGs. There are a dozen 'improved' versions of 5e, like Tales of the Valiant and Advanced 5E. There are a refined versions of older editions, like Pathfinder. There are new takes on old ideas like Draw Steel, Roll 20, and Daggerheart.
And then there's the entire OSR framework that would be far more what Gary Gygax would consider "D&D Like".
This proves without a shadow of a doubt, that there is no "One D&D To Rule Them All". Everyone has their own ideas and desires. You don't like 5.5? Stay with 5e. You don't like 5e? Try a different flavour.
There are so many versions out there that there WILL be an option that you like, and you don't even have to give WOTC a cent for it. Go look, instead of trying to tell everyone else they're wrong for enjoying 5.5e and that everything is wrong and only you can see it.
Both work. I have to admit that I've walked back a lot of the changes to 5.5e...but to each their own. I certainly wouldn't walk away from a table based on whether they're playing 5e or 5.5e.
The issue with "one edition for all" is that tastes change. Had I started off playing 1e, I probably would never have gotten into D&D...and possibly not even TTRPGs at all. As I said, 5.5e isn't the ideal either (so I run a hybrid where I take what I like most of each). So what am I forced to play? This new one that suits your tastes, but may well not suite mine? Or vice versa?
There is no pinnacle D&D that's the best form everyone. Heck, D&D is only one arrow in my quiver, and I choose which game system to use to best suit the story. Different rules suit different things. Hence, the motivation of higher profits and sales for WotC by releasing new editions benefits us all as they strive to make a ruleset that appeals to the most people. So long as they're not taking the Mick by releasing incompatible rules every couple of years, then it's good.
As an aside, I'm curious as to how long 5.5e will last, and whether the next will retain compatibility. It's not a big deal because I have a feeling for the system so even new adventures I can adapt, but it'll be interesting to see how it works out.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
WoTC isn't ruining anything, in fact they gave the game a new life if anything since 2000 AC.
Every editions of D&D had flaws but the latest iteration is good to me, still doing fun storytelling every other week, not much different than during AD&D era.
Speaking of Luke Gygax, he's working on Melf's Guide to Greyhawk with many other people that WoTC will publish in the future that i look foward to!
The funniest thing about this thread, for all sorts of reasons, is the idea that the Gygax bloodline are the One True Keepers of the D&D rules
Only a True Heir of Gygax can save the realm from darkness!
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I'm expecting we'll get a 6e in 2034. Because they need to refresh the sales.
.5 Editions in the past lasted only a few years, so i expect 6E to come before 2036.
I wouldn't be surprised if by 2030 6E is released.
The funny thing… OP made all these same complaints about the 2014 game - complaining about errata, lamenting the loss of the Gygax family, Wizards updating the game. Same thread. Different year.
Which brings me to my main point - OP, if you truly think “5e just works” then it kind of looks like you were able to get over your issues from a few years ago and acknowledge the 2014 rules do work. Nothing in the substance of your complaints changed between 5e and 5.5e, perhaps maybe it is time to acknowledge that the issues you repeatedly have risen do not actually stand in the way of the game “working”?
P.S Wizards already announced they were collaborating with Luke Gygax on a joint project.
The original post reminds me of this Penny Arcade comic from back when Essentials was released for 4E: https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/08/23/traditional-values. The language is a little spicy, fair warning.
For some of us new editions or mid-edition updates are old hat. It can be easy to forget that the first big change can be a lot and some folks don't like that. I like to say there's a difference between "I don't like this thing" and "this thing is bad and no one should like it."
If I had a nickel for every time I heard that argument i could buy and forgive half the medical debt in the US.
I was hearing people complaining about this same thing in the 1990s and telling me how i would never play "True D&D" because I came in at AD&D 2nd edition.
It is always "New thing bad, old thing good." without any backing statements or arguments for the proposition. 5.5 isn't perfect, 5.0 isn't perfect, 4E wasn't perfect 3.5 wasn't perfect nor was 3.0 and the one i started with, that i hold some nostalgia for, AD&D 2nd edition WAS NOT PERFECT. As much as i enjoyed the edition i started with, there were element that were TRASH! Later editions fixed problems and introduced new ones.
there is not and never will be a perfect edition, because perfect doesn't exist, and my standards are not the only one that counts. 5.0 and 5.5 are just the balance i like the most and are easy to homebrew and port to my desires, and it is the same for others. It is a good starting point and it will be iterated on and i will see this arguement again.
I know i complained about some things in the 5.0 to 5.5 transition, but just because i liked the older way, it doesn't mean the new one is bad, i was just more used to the old one.
Like i still think it is dumb that a warlock or Cleric doesn't get their Patron/domain until 3, but that doesn't mean bringing them into parity with the others is BAD it isn't it is FAIR, i just happen to like the older one. That don't mean I am the only opinion that counts.
I will grump and adjust when the next thing comes, as is the cycle with the old-guard like me. Then i will learn the new thing and teach it to new players until I die. ( or go senile )
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
Maybe it's just me but, this is what I am hearing. Do you have to re-buy all the updated material that you already previously purchased on this site to go from 5e to 5.5E?
If so, this is a legitimate gripe. Having to rebuy rehashed and balanced content isn't great customer support. Make money by releasing 100% NEW content for the game. Not an entirely equal comparison but, if players had to pay for every rebalance in an online game, customers would walk away. The adjustments should be there to make the game better and retain and grow it's customer base, and make more profits in doing so.
You are correct. That is why many of the "it isn't a new edition" arguments get so heated, it was treated like a new edition, has new books, you have to rebuy the MM PHB and DMG and "Legacy" 5.0 content does not play well or at all with the newer materials. That is a separate conversation than what is being put forth in the thread though.
Yes a lot of people are pissed about it, but a lot of people are pissed that we are pissed etc etc etc.When it comes to the site's implementation there is much room for annoyence.
Just comparing the 2 rulesets though, i think OP isn't correct in their assessment.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
The OP is talking about errata, a common gripe they seem to have, not going from 5e to 5.5e.
No, you don't have to buy new books on ddb to get the errata'd version, it just gets updated. If you want you physical books to have the current errata, you will have to find and buy a recent printing.
If you want the 5.5e core rules, you do not get them free if you already own the 5e versions. Which is exactly the same as the physical versions. The 5.5e basic rules are free, just like the 5e basic rules.
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The 1st Ed UA and 2.5 Player Options don't count as .5's, nor does Essentials.
I think the same forces that released 5.5 will delay 6.0 as long as necessary. If that's 5 years, sure. But there were 10 years between Advanced 1st and 2nd Editions, and then another 13 years to 3rd. Arguably 4.0 was a weird diversion, so if you consider 5.0 to be the natural successor of 3.0/3.5, then you've probably got another 10 years of life for 5.5's refinements.
Despite what the OP says, 5.5 is probably as likely to last 10 years as 5.0 on the mechanics. It will be whether WOTC needs to sell another iteration, or whether they're going strong with new campaigns and sourcebooks, as to whether they will want to work on a new version.
I wouldn't be surprised if they treated it like Windows 10/11, and just keep tweaking what is essentially a settled system.
Does the OP know that Gary Gygax didn't make DND on his own? &, despite Gary Gygax's philosophy of biological determinism, TTRPG design talent is not inherited(Don't get me wrong, Luke is EXTREMELY talented at this, but he had a lifetime of coaching from a prodigy father).
I never see posts like this demanding Fred Armeson's bloodline take over DND.
& edition wars talk NEVER ends well.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Now is not the time to do a shout out to Arnesson, BUT LETS DO IT ANYWAY!
Dave Arnesson, a cool guy who was more concerned about people having fun than he was about rules purity. Lets all be more like my guy Dave. The Cocreator of Dungeons and Dragons.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
I've been playing D&D since the 80s. I played 5.0 until 5.5 released. 5.5 is imo, the best version yet.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Suggesting that there is some way to finalize D&D is a bit like having the perfect day and then wanting to groundhog it forever. Eventually, no matter how good you think it is, you will despise it above all other things.
Changes to D&D for better or worse are critical to its long-term health. In fact, it was D&D's lowest points that it rose to its greatest successes. After 2nd edition AD&D and the death throws of TSR, we got 3rd edition, unquestionably one of the most successful versions of the game at the time and without question the most successful RPG of all time (at the time). After the disaster that was 4th edition, we got 5th edition, without question one of the most successful versions of D&D ever that ushered in a golden age of role-playing.
I don't really care for the 5.5 changes either, I think the game is considerably worse as a result of them. The fact that D&D is trending downwards at the moment I think speaks to that, but I also think 5.5 is going to force WotC to rethink their strategy, and hopefully something amazing comes out of it. We are already seeing the initial steps in the right direction.
So .. yeah.. change is good, quite critical to the health of the game.