So, I never bought Mordekainen's Tome of Foes, but it was on my to get list. Now it has been pulled, and it seems like Monster of the Multiverse do not feature the Tiefling subraces from MToF. Is it no longer possible to get them on D&D Beyond at all? If not, is there any particular reason why they are no longer officially endorsed?
As of this moment, the Archfiend tiffle variants are not available for sale, no. I expect that to be rectified one way or another in 2024, but that doesn't help anybody now.
Perhaps we can get the DDB staff to create 'Official Homebrew' variants of the Archfiend tiffles, the way Badeye did for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron versions of the warforged and changelings back in the day? Does seem a little unkind to simply bar those critters from existence, even if it's on Wizards' orders, and frankly everybody and their mother can/will just homebrew them anyways.
It will be difficult for a lot of people to homebrew if they don't know anyone with the old content, or unless they have the physical book. I can't remember the exact specifics regarding publishing, but making it exactly like the old subraces and then publishing it could potentially run afoul of the homebrew rules. Just saying that if you're idea was to run a party of Archfiend Tiefling Bards as a barbershop quartet, it might be tough.
Thus the recommendation to ask the staff to create "Official Homebrew", the way they did for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron species. This IS official content that should be available, but we can't publish it. DDB can. They already did, the last time a broadly similar situation happened. If Wizards is going to can Mordy's first book, they can bloody well greenlight an easy homebrew workaround the digital toolset company can make
Thus the recommendation to ask the staff to create "Official Homebrew", the way they did for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron species. This IS official content that should be available, but we can't publish it. DDB can. They already did, the last time a broadly similar situation happened. If Wizards is going to can Mordy's first book, they can bloody well greenlight an easy homebrew workaround the digital toolset company can make
True, although I wonder how likely they are to do this given that they intentionally left the specific Tieflings out of MMM and then chose to discontinue the only source book with that material. That seems like a pretty specific choice and concerted effort on their part to then turn around and republish them through the homebrew system here.
Nothing concerted about it. Tiffles are a PHB species. They can't fix tiffles in a noncore book, they have to wait for PHB 2.0 in 2024. Same reason Fizban's dragonborn are technically an entirely different species than the PHB dragonborn - Fizban's Book of Durgan Droppings is a noncore book, it cannot overrule one of the core books. The Archfiend tiffles aren't setting-agnostic; in point of fact they are, if played true to Mordy's First Book, 100% utterly reliant on Forgotten Realms lore and the Great Wheel. They didn't belong in M3 for a number of reasons, and frankly I don't expect to see them in PHB 2.0. To whatever extent they'll be mucking with core species, tiffles will have a small pool of various devilish traits to choose from - or the Archfiend-specific tiffles will simply disappear and be an unusual tangent in 5e's history.
Nothing concerted about it. Tiffles are a PHB species. They can't fix tiffles in a noncore book, they have to wait for PHB 2.0 in 2024. Same reason Fizban's dragonborn are technically an entirely different species than the PHB dragonborn - Fizban's Book of Durgan Droppings is a noncore book, it cannot overrule one of the core books. The Archfiend tiffles aren't setting-agnostic; in point of fact they are, if played true to Mordy's First Book, 100% utterly reliant on Forgotten Realms lore and the Great Wheel. They didn't belong in M3 for a number of reasons, and frankly I don't expect to see them in PHB 2.0. To whatever extent they'll be mucking with core species, tiffles will have a small pool of various devilish traits to choose from - or the Archfiend-specific tiffles will simply disappear and be an unusual tangent in 5e's history.
It seems entirely concerted to me. The effort was to remove FR-centric lore with MMM and hence they removed the Archfiend Tieflings, they then stopped selling MToF and VGtM. Just my two cents but, I don't think those were unrelated or coincidence. That said, I really don't think WotC would (not that they can't, but just won't) republish them as homebrew. If they were willing to 'officially' nuke all the lore in MToF, it seems highly unlikely they are going to bring it back via the homebrew system.
edit: removed quotations from the word republish as it could be interpreted as a snark, when it was just my lack of certainty over whether republish was the best word choice.
It's pretty trivial to do generic Tiefling subraces, since their only defining features are different ability score modifiers (which Tasha's lets you do) and different spells gained. Your main problem might be that anything you created would be unpublishable.
As of this moment, the Archfiend tiffle variants are not available for sale, no. I expect that to be rectified one way or another in 2024, but that doesn't help anybody now.
Perhaps we can get the DDB staff to create 'Official Homebrew' variants of the Archfiend tiffles, the way Badeye did for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron versions of the warforged and changelings back in the day? Does seem a little unkind to simply bar those critters from existence, even if it's on Wizards' orders, and frankly everybody and their mother can/will just homebrew them anyways.
I suspect that WotC will likely be rereleasing them in another book sooner than that.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
As of this moment, the Archfiend tiffle variants are not available for sale, no. I expect that to be rectified one way or another in 2024, but that doesn't help anybody now.
Perhaps we can get the DDB staff to create 'Official Homebrew' variants of the Archfiend tiffles, the way Badeye did for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron versions of the warforged and changelings back in the day? Does seem a little unkind to simply bar those critters from existence, even if it's on Wizards' orders, and frankly everybody and their mother can/will just homebrew them anyways.
I suspect that WotC will likely be rereleasing them in another book sooner than that.
PLANESCAPE CONFIRMED!?!?
jk (sorta)
It would make sense to add them to a Planescape setting book
As of this moment, the Archfiend tiffle variants are not available for sale, no. I expect that to be rectified one way or another in 2024, but that doesn't help anybody now.
Perhaps we can get the DDB staff to create 'Official Homebrew' variants of the Archfiend tiffles, the way Badeye did for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron versions of the warforged and changelings back in the day? Does seem a little unkind to simply bar those critters from existence, even if it's on Wizards' orders, and frankly everybody and their mother can/will just homebrew them anyways.
I suspect that WotC will likely be rereleasing them in another book sooner than that.
PLANESCAPE CONFIRMED!?!?
jk (sorta)
It would make sense to add them to a Planescape setting book
Nah, there will be a tracing Infernal Bloodlines adventure in Radiant Citidal and the Tieflings will be re-presented in an appendix to that book.
Everyone, that's a joke.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It's pretty trivial to do generic Tiefling subraces, since their only defining features are different ability score modifiers (which Tasha's lets you do) and different spells gained. Your main problem might be that anything you created would be unpublishable.
I just tried it, and a bug stopped me from even attempting a Zariel's Bloodline Tiefling: you can't pick Searing Smite as a homebrew racial spell, for no apparent reason.
A second bug also came up: I made Bloodline Tieflings with a subrace for Zariel's Bloodline, and dndbeyond won't let me publish it because the subrace doesn't exist, even though I absolutely did make it under subraces.
So apparently the biggest problem with us doing it ourselves is how bug-ridden dndbeyond is, rather than any IP issues.
Don't try and make it a subspecies. Just brew up a 'Zariel Tiefling' species, with the specific numbers you want for your character since the homebrewer literally cannot follow Tasha's-compliant rules. or give it the +2CHA/+1STR if you prefer. Rebake the whole species, it's much easier than trying to get a subspecies to work.
It's pretty trivial to do generic Tiefling subraces, since their only defining features are different ability score modifiers (which Tasha's lets you do) and different spells gained. Your main problem might be that anything you created would be unpublishable.
I just tried it, and a bug stopped me from even attempting a Zariel's Bloodline Tiefling: you can't pick Searing Smite as a homebrew racial spell, for no apparent reason.
A second bug also came up: I made Bloodline Tieflings with a subrace for Zariel's Bloodline, and dndbeyond won't let me publish it because the subrace doesn't exist, even though I absolutely did make it under subraces.
So apparently the biggest problem with us doing it ourselves is how bug-ridden dndbeyond is, rather than any IP issues.
I can tell you that the MToF Tieflings are Variants of the PHB Tiefling. Don't bother trying to make something with Subraces.
In particular, each variant has a trait called "Ability Score Increase" that replaces the Tiefling trait of the same name, and another trait called "Legacy of <HellCircle>" that replaces the Tiefling trait "Infernal Legacy".
But you could just rename the 3 spells and use the override functions if possible to fudge the auto rolls. Otherwise, just rename them and keep a note of what dice rolls/effects/saves etc are needed in the notes section and use the custom dice roller.
Don't get it...just use PHB tiefling with Tasha's approach to ASI's, then negotiate your spells with your DM. No real brewing required.
Who your Fiend patron is is already up to you as it's really just flavour.
Tieflings don't have 'patrons' unless they're also warlocks. Hell, tieflings don't even necessarily have demonic/devilish ancestors. Tieflings arise (canonically, per FR/general tiffle lore) when a mortal has dealings with the Hells. That mortal's genetic line is marked, and thereafter any person born of that line has a(n admittedly low) chance of being born a tiefling. theoretically the closer the birth is to the Dealings, the higher the chance of tifflehood, but dozens of generations can separate Dealings from Tiffle.
Frankly, if that particular lore is taken at face value, then after thousands of years of Dealings, it's entirely possible that virtually every single sapient being born has a chance of being born a tiffle. Genetic cross propagation would ensure that a huge swath of the population has at least one ancestor somewhere that dun made a goof and dealt with a devil, which means tiffledom wouldn't even necessarily be associated with 'ancestral devil_Dealings' in the population's mind. All a typical superstituous, poorly-educated country-rube D&D populace would know is every once in a while a person is born with distinctly devilish features and nobody can really explain why. Oh sure, the magisters in their gleaming towers can talk about bloodlines and contracts and Infernal legacies and all that, but they're as alien and untrustworthy as devils themselves, and if they're right that means your own family is corrupted by devilish dealings and has been for centuries. No, no. Far easier to believe the mother is a witch and the child is cursed, independently of the father or anyone with a bloodline connection to the child. That way only two people need to be reviled and driven out of town - one mother, and one demon-faced child.
Ah yes, apologies I conflated the two. I meant to refer to which infernal being tainted the bloodline.
The mechanics for fudging the alternate spells still stands: rename them, override what you can via customisation, and refer to notes for custom rolls/frequency of casting.
Ah yes, apologies I conflated the two. I meant to refer to which infernal being tainted the bloodline.
The mechanics for fudging the alternate spells still stands: rename them, override what you can via customisation, and refer to notes for custom rolls/frequency of casting.
It's actually easier to homebrew than maintain consistent integrity in character sheet performance through your proposed method. Physical, sheets sure, you can write whatever you want, but the homebrew system is a much more powerful and effective solution integrated into the DDB character sheet.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
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So, I never bought Mordekainen's Tome of Foes, but it was on my to get list. Now it has been pulled, and it seems like Monster of the Multiverse do not feature the Tiefling subraces from MToF. Is it no longer possible to get them on D&D Beyond at all? If not, is there any particular reason why they are no longer officially endorsed?
As of this moment, the Archfiend tiffle variants are not available for sale, no. I expect that to be rectified one way or another in 2024, but that doesn't help anybody now.
Perhaps we can get the DDB staff to create 'Official Homebrew' variants of the Archfiend tiffles, the way Badeye did for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron versions of the warforged and changelings back in the day? Does seem a little unkind to simply bar those critters from existence, even if it's on Wizards' orders, and frankly everybody and their mother can/will just homebrew them anyways.
Please do not contact or message me.
It will be difficult for a lot of people to homebrew if they don't know anyone with the old content, or unless they have the physical book. I can't remember the exact specifics regarding publishing, but making it exactly like the old subraces and then publishing it could potentially run afoul of the homebrew rules. Just saying that if you're idea was to run a party of Archfiend Tiefling Bards as a barbershop quartet, it might be tough.
Thus the recommendation to ask the staff to create "Official Homebrew", the way they did for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron species. This IS official content that should be available, but we can't publish it. DDB can. They already did, the last time a broadly similar situation happened. If Wizards is going to can Mordy's first book, they can bloody well greenlight an easy homebrew workaround the digital toolset company can make
Please do not contact or message me.
True, although I wonder how likely they are to do this given that they intentionally left the specific Tieflings out of MMM and then chose to discontinue the only source book with that material. That seems like a pretty specific choice and concerted effort on their part to then turn around and republish them through the homebrew system here.
Nothing concerted about it. Tiffles are a PHB species. They can't fix tiffles in a noncore book, they have to wait for PHB 2.0 in 2024. Same reason Fizban's dragonborn are technically an entirely different species than the PHB dragonborn - Fizban's Book of Durgan Droppings is a noncore book, it cannot overrule one of the core books. The Archfiend tiffles aren't setting-agnostic; in point of fact they are, if played true to Mordy's First Book, 100% utterly reliant on Forgotten Realms lore and the Great Wheel. They didn't belong in M3 for a number of reasons, and frankly I don't expect to see them in PHB 2.0. To whatever extent they'll be mucking with core species, tiffles will have a small pool of various devilish traits to choose from - or the Archfiend-specific tiffles will simply disappear and be an unusual tangent in 5e's history.
Please do not contact or message me.
It seems entirely concerted to me. The effort was to remove FR-centric lore with MMM and hence they removed the Archfiend Tieflings, they then stopped selling MToF and VGtM. Just my two cents but, I don't think those were unrelated or coincidence. That said, I really don't think WotC would (not that they can't, but just won't) republish them as homebrew. If they were willing to 'officially' nuke all the lore in MToF, it seems highly unlikely they are going to bring it back via the homebrew system.
edit: removed quotations from the word republish as it could be interpreted as a snark, when it was just my lack of certainty over whether republish was the best word choice.
It's pretty trivial to do generic Tiefling subraces, since their only defining features are different ability score modifiers (which Tasha's lets you do) and different spells gained. Your main problem might be that anything you created would be unpublishable.
I suspect that WotC will likely be rereleasing them in another book sooner than that.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
PLANESCAPE CONFIRMED!?!?
jk (sorta)
It would make sense to add them to a Planescape setting book
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Nah, there will be a tracing Infernal Bloodlines adventure in Radiant Citidal and the Tieflings will be re-presented in an appendix to that book.
Everyone, that's a joke.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I just tried it, and a bug stopped me from even attempting a Zariel's Bloodline Tiefling: you can't pick Searing Smite as a homebrew racial spell, for no apparent reason.
A second bug also came up: I made Bloodline Tieflings with a subrace for Zariel's Bloodline, and dndbeyond won't let me publish it because the subrace doesn't exist, even though I absolutely did make it under subraces.
So apparently the biggest problem with us doing it ourselves is how bug-ridden dndbeyond is, rather than any IP issues.
Don't try and make it a subspecies. Just brew up a 'Zariel Tiefling' species, with the specific numbers you want for your character since the homebrewer literally cannot follow Tasha's-compliant rules. or give it the +2CHA/+1STR if you prefer. Rebake the whole species, it's much easier than trying to get a subspecies to work.
Please do not contact or message me.
I can tell you that the MToF Tieflings are Variants of the PHB Tiefling. Don't bother trying to make something with Subraces.
In particular, each variant has a trait called "Ability Score Increase" that replaces the Tiefling trait of the same name, and another trait called "Legacy of <HellCircle>" that replaces the Tiefling trait "Infernal Legacy".
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Don't get it...just use PHB tiefling with Tasha's approach to ASI's, then negotiate your spells with your DM. No real brewing required.
Who your Fiend patron is is already up to you as it's really just flavour.
It's required if you want to use the DDB character sheet.
Fair enough.
But you could just rename the 3 spells and use the override functions if possible to fudge the auto rolls. Otherwise, just rename them and keep a note of what dice rolls/effects/saves etc are needed in the notes section and use the custom dice roller.
Not the easiest but not impossible.
Tieflings don't have 'patrons' unless they're also warlocks. Hell, tieflings don't even necessarily have demonic/devilish ancestors. Tieflings arise (canonically, per FR/general tiffle lore) when a mortal has dealings with the Hells. That mortal's genetic line is marked, and thereafter any person born of that line has a(n admittedly low) chance of being born a tiefling. theoretically the closer the birth is to the Dealings, the higher the chance of tifflehood, but dozens of generations can separate Dealings from Tiffle.
Frankly, if that particular lore is taken at face value, then after thousands of years of Dealings, it's entirely possible that virtually every single sapient being born has a chance of being born a tiffle. Genetic cross propagation would ensure that a huge swath of the population has at least one ancestor somewhere that dun made a goof and dealt with a devil, which means tiffledom wouldn't even necessarily be associated with 'ancestral devil_Dealings' in the population's mind. All a typical superstituous, poorly-educated country-rube D&D populace would know is every once in a while a person is born with distinctly devilish features and nobody can really explain why. Oh sure, the magisters in their gleaming towers can talk about bloodlines and contracts and Infernal legacies and all that, but they're as alien and untrustworthy as devils themselves, and if they're right that means your own family is corrupted by devilish dealings and has been for centuries. No, no. Far easier to believe the mother is a witch and the child is cursed, independently of the father or anyone with a bloodline connection to the child. That way only two people need to be reviled and driven out of town - one mother, and one demon-faced child.
Please do not contact or message me.
Ah yes, apologies I conflated the two. I meant to refer to which infernal being tainted the bloodline.
The mechanics for fudging the alternate spells still stands: rename them, override what you can via customisation, and refer to notes for custom rolls/frequency of casting.
It's actually easier to homebrew than maintain consistent integrity in character sheet performance through your proposed method. Physical, sheets sure, you can write whatever you want, but the homebrew system is a much more powerful and effective solution integrated into the DDB character sheet.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.