How are Expertise and Twice Proficiency different? Are they just the same thing with different names?
If you wanted to set a ability such as this: "Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses the Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion skill if you are proficient in that skill.", what modifier would you use? Twice Proficiency just makes them double proficient immediately, which isn't the goal.
If you wanted something such as: "You gain proficiency in the _________ skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.", what modifier would this use?
If you wanted something such as: "You gain proficiency in the _________ skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.", what modifier would this use?
If you wanted something such as: "You gain proficiency in the _________ skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.", what modifier would this use?
How are Expertise and Twice Proficiency different? Are they just the same thing with different names?
If you give a feature that grants Double Proficiency in a skill, then it would replace the PC’s regular proficiency in that skill, (if they have it) allowing the player to replace that skill proficiency with another.
If you give a feature that grants Expertise in a skill then it overlays regular proficiency in that skill (if they have it), so they would not be allowed to replace it with a new skill proficiency.
If you wanted to set a ability such as this: "Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses the Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion skill if you are proficient in that skill.", what modifier would you use? Twice Proficiency just makes them double proficient immediately, which isn't the goal.
That depends, do they get the benefit to all of them or do they pick one of the four?
If you wanted something such as: "You gain proficiency in the _________ skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.", what modifier would this use?
What kind of homebrew? (Feat, Item, Subclass, Race)
How are Expertise and Twice Proficiency different? Are they just the same thing with different names?
If you give a feature that grants Double Proficiency in a skill, then it would replace the PC’s regular proficiency in that skill, (if they have it) allowing the player to replace that skill proficiency with another.
If you give a feature that grants Expertise in a skill then it overlays regular proficiency in that skill (if they have it), so they would not be allowed to replace it with a new skill proficiency.
If you wanted to set a ability such as this: "Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses the Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion skill if you are proficient in that skill.", what modifier would you use? Twice Proficiency just makes them double proficient immediately, which isn't the goal.
That depends, do they get the benefit to all of them or do they pick one of the four
They get the benefit from all of them. If it changes based on format, it would be for a Subclass
If you wanted something such as: "You gain proficiency in the _________ skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.", what modifier would this use?
What kind of homebrew? (Feat, Item, Subclass, Race)
If you wanted something such as: "You gain proficiency in the _________ skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.", what modifier would this use?
What kind of homebrew? (Feat, Item, Subclass, Race)
For a Feat, as in the UA skills feats
Currently impossible. You would have to make them as separate feats just like the Magic Initiates.
If you wanted to set a ability such as this: "Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses the Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion skill if you are proficient in that skill.", what modifier would you use? Twice Proficiency just makes them double proficient immediately, which isn't the goal.
That depends, do they get the benefit to all of them or do they pick one of the four
They get the benefit from all of them. If it changes based on format, it would be for a Subclass
You could do it three ways:
Make 8 options, two for each skill. “Do you have the [Skill] proficiency?” “Yes/No” and break it down like that so all 4 “yes” options grant Expertise and all four “no” options don’t. Then you have to hope they do it.
You could list it as plain text and put 4 instances of the following: (Modifier: Expertise->Subtype: Choose Rogue Expertise) with instructions to only pick from those four skills and nothing else and hope they do it.
The easier thing to do would be to put it in plain text and let the player customize their skills directly on the character sheet.
If you wanted something such as: "You gain proficiency in the _________ skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.", what modifier would this use?
What kind of homebrew? (Feat, Item, Subclass, Race)
For a Feat, as in the UA skills feats
Currently impossible. You would have to make them as separate feats just like the Magic Initiates.
What modifier would it be if it was 'Nature' for instance? The same 'yes' or 'no' options?
The options are not the modifier. The options get added to the class feature, the modifiers get added to the “yes” options. Then, whatever level the class feature happens you gotta indicate that level 4 times under “levels where options known.”
How are Expertise and Twice Proficiency different? Are they just the same thing with different names?
If you give a feature that grants Double Proficiency in a skill, then it would replace the PC’s regular proficiency in that skill, (if they have it) allowing the player to replace that skill proficiency with another.
If you give a feature that grants Expertise in a skill then it overlays regular proficiency in that skill (if they have it), so they would not be allowed to replace it with a new skill proficiency.
I'd just like to clarify that if you set a specific skill as the sub-type for Expertise, such as Nature then it actually behaves the same as the Double Proficiency modifier, I think because it has no requirement to be an existing skill proficiency, so it frees up the proficiency exactly as Double Proficiency does.
Basically to use the Expertise type you pretty much have to use the sub-type "Choose Rogue Expertise" to have the user pick an existing skill proficiency to enhance (not replace).
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How are Expertise and Twice Proficiency different? Are they just the same thing with different names?
If you give a feature that grants Double Proficiency in a skill, then it would replace the PC’s regular proficiency in that skill, (if they have it) allowing the player to replace that skill proficiency with another.
If you give a feature that grants Expertise in a skill then it overlays regular proficiency in that skill (if they have it), so they would not be allowed to replace it with a new skill proficiency.
I'd just like to clarify that if you set a specific skill as the sub-type for Expertise, such as Nature then it actually behaves the same as the Double Proficiency modifier, I think because it has no requirement to be an existing skill proficiency, so it frees up the proficiency exactly as Double Proficiency does.
Basically to use the Expertise type you pretty much have to use the sub-type "Choose Rogue Expertise" to have the user pick an existing skill proficiency to enhance (not replace).
That’s not true, I specifically tested it by putting a feature that gave expertise in Arcana on a homebrew Wizard subclass at 10th level and then again with twice proficiency and ran two tests. The version that granted Expertise did not free up the Proficiency slot that had been put towards Arcana when I leveled the test character up, the version that granted Twice Proficiency did.
How are Expertise and Twice Proficiency different? Are they just the same thing with different names?
If you give a feature that grants Double Proficiency in a skill, then it would replace the PC’s regular proficiency in that skill, (if they have it) allowing the player to replace that skill proficiency with another.
If you give a feature that grants Expertise in a skill then it overlays regular proficiency in that skill (if they have it), so they would not be allowed to replace it with a new skill proficiency.
I'd just like to clarify that if you set a specific skill as the sub-type for Expertise, such as Nature then it actually behaves the same as the Double Proficiency modifier, I think because it has no requirement to be an existing skill proficiency, so it frees up the proficiency exactly as Double Proficiency does.
Basically to use the Expertise type you pretty much have to use the sub-type "Choose Rogue Expertise" to have the user pick an existing skill proficiency to enhance (not replace).
That’s not true, I specifically tested it by putting a feature that gave expertise in Arcana on a homebrew Wizard subclass at 10th level and then again with twice proficiency and ran two tests. The version that granted Expertise did not free up the Proficiency slot that had been put towards Arcana when I leveled the test character up, the version that granted Twice Proficiency did.
It definitely does override it, but maybe whether it releases the proficiency differs depending whether the original proficiency was granted by the same source? I just threw a specific expertise onto a feat and added that to a character already proficient in the same skill, and it removed the proficiency from their background where it was originally granted.
Even in cases where it doesn't though, expertise in a specific skill still overrides normal proficiency in the same was as double proficiency does, as a change to the original proficiency won't affect the specific skill expertise in any way, whereas an expertise granted using Choose Rogue Expertise will reset.
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Can I ask, what are the snippets for expertise and double proficiency in a subclass? I’d be happy to tinker but I only see proficiency listed in the homebrew snippet thread.
Also, just be clear, if I don’t use snippets, then nothing will update in a character sheet? It isn’t reading descriptions or some such?
The full Description is displayed in the sidebar whenever an Action, Feature, Trait etc is tapped/clicked on the sheet itself.
Snippets don’t actually “do” anything, just display calculated results to abridge what gets displayed on the sheets. Since Expertise grants Twice Proficiency, and since that is the PC’s Proficiency bonus × 2, then all you need to do is follow the instructions in the thread specifically all about snippets regarding how to multiply something by an integer: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/25930-using-snippet-codes-in-your-homebrew). In the very first post ther by Stormknight, directly after the list of available base snippets is a section with the heading “Calculations.” You should be able to figure it out from there.
But frankly, just stating that they get twice Proficiency in things is pro’ly enough, the Skills section of the character sheet relies on the appropriate Modifiers to actually display the correct numbers for us. “Modifier: Expertise” lets a PC gain 2× PB in something they are already Proficient in (like an upgrade). “Modifier: Twice Proficiency” gives them a new proficiency already upgraded, and if they get it in something they are already proficient in then they can replace that original base proficiency with something else.
So would expertise in sleight of hand be displayed as {{modifier:expertise:slightofhand}}, or {{expertise:sleightofhand}}, or {{sleightofhand:expertise}}?
I suppose the problem for me (newly trying this), is whether the words in the examples are meant to be replaced with something
So {{2*proficiency}} will double which proficiency
The example has {{2*abilityscore:con}} which is constitution. That's why I thought "sleight of hand" needed to be somewhere in there to show that it doubles that specific proficiency.
{{2*proficiency:sleightofhand}} or something sounds like what I'm thinking but maybe there's an abbreviation there.
Is there a reason you need to show that? It would probably make more sense just to tell the user to roll a sleight of hand check as this will already be adding any relevant proficiency, or is your intention to provide the double proficiency only in certain circumstances?
You could probably do {{modifier:dex+(2*proficiency)}} if you wanted to show a dexterity modifier with double proficiency added on top, though I'm not 100% sure if that will work (the snippets can super finicky about what works and what doesn't).
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No, Sleight of Hand is not “a proficiency,” it’s a “Skill.” Skills only become proficiencies when chosen by or granted to a PC/creature. It would just be {{2*proficiency}} and whatever else you need to write about it must go outside of the double braces.
I will reiterate, you don’t need that at all. Anything you type into the snippet field will be displayed on the sheet, no actual snippet codes are required unless you need to make a calculation. To make your thing to display the same as the snippets for every feature, trait, or feat that grants either Expertise or Twice Proficiency just type the following:
Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check you make.
How are Expertise and Twice Proficiency different? Are they just the same thing with different names?
If you wanted to set a ability such as this: "Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses the Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion skill if you are proficient in that skill.", what modifier would you use? Twice Proficiency just makes them double proficient immediately, which isn't the goal.
If you wanted something such as: "You gain proficiency in the _________ skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.", what modifier would this use?
I'm curious how this can be accomplished too
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Depends on what kind of homebrew.
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If you give a feature that grants Double Proficiency in a skill, then it would replace the PC’s regular proficiency in that skill, (if they have it) allowing the player to replace that skill proficiency with another.
If you give a feature that grants Expertise in a skill then it overlays regular proficiency in that skill (if they have it), so they would not be allowed to replace it with a new skill proficiency.
That depends, do they get the benefit to all of them or do they pick one of the four?
What kind of homebrew? (Feat, Item, Subclass, Race)
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Thank you, I've been wondering how that worked
They get the benefit from all of them. If it changes based on format, it would be for a Subclass
For a Feat, as in the UA skills feats
Currently impossible. You would have to make them as separate feats just like the Magic Initiates.
You could do it three ways:
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What modifier would it be if it was 'Nature' for instance? The same 'yes' or 'no' options?
The options are not the modifier. The options get added to the class feature, the modifiers get added to the “yes” options. Then, whatever level the class feature happens you gotta indicate that level 4 times under “levels where options known.”
I explain “options” better here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/67361-subclass-help?comment=4
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I'd just like to clarify that if you set a specific skill as the sub-type for Expertise, such as Nature then it actually behaves the same as the Double Proficiency modifier, I think because it has no requirement to be an existing skill proficiency, so it frees up the proficiency exactly as Double Proficiency does.
Basically to use the Expertise type you pretty much have to use the sub-type "Choose Rogue Expertise" to have the user pick an existing skill proficiency to enhance (not replace).
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That’s not true, I specifically tested it by putting a feature that gave expertise in Arcana on a homebrew Wizard subclass at 10th level and then again with twice proficiency and ran two tests. The version that granted Expertise did not free up the Proficiency slot that had been put towards Arcana when I leveled the test character up, the version that granted Twice Proficiency did.
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It definitely does override it, but maybe whether it releases the proficiency differs depending whether the original proficiency was granted by the same source? I just threw a specific expertise onto a feat and added that to a character already proficient in the same skill, and it removed the proficiency from their background where it was originally granted.
Even in cases where it doesn't though, expertise in a specific skill still overrides normal proficiency in the same was as double proficiency does, as a change to the original proficiency won't affect the specific skill expertise in any way, whereas an expertise granted using Choose Rogue Expertise will reset.
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Maybe. Try it with a subclass and see what’s what.
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Can I ask, what are the snippets for expertise and double proficiency in a subclass? I’d be happy to tinker but I only see proficiency listed in the homebrew snippet thread.
Also, just be clear, if I don’t use snippets, then nothing will update in a character sheet? It isn’t reading descriptions or some such?
The full Description is displayed in the sidebar whenever an Action, Feature, Trait etc is tapped/clicked on the sheet itself.
Snippets don’t actually “do” anything, just display calculated results to abridge what gets displayed on the sheets. Since Expertise grants Twice Proficiency, and since that is the PC’s Proficiency bonus × 2, then all you need to do is follow the instructions in the thread specifically all about snippets regarding how to multiply something by an integer: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/25930-using-snippet-codes-in-your-homebrew). In the very first post ther by Stormknight, directly after the list of available base snippets is a section with the heading “Calculations.” You should be able to figure it out from there.
But frankly, just stating that they get twice Proficiency in things is pro’ly enough, the Skills section of the character sheet relies on the appropriate Modifiers to actually display the correct numbers for us. “Modifier: Expertise” lets a PC gain 2× PB in something they are already Proficient in (like an upgrade). “Modifier: Twice Proficiency” gives them a new proficiency already upgraded, and if they get it in something they are already proficient in then they can replace that original base proficiency with something else.
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Thank you.
So would expertise in sleight of hand be displayed as {{modifier:expertise:slightofhand}}, or {{expertise:sleightofhand}}, or {{sleightofhand:expertise}}?
I suppose the problem for me (newly trying this), is whether the words in the examples are meant to be replaced with something
No, it would just be {{2*proficiency}}, just as the instructions in that post I recommended you read says:
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So {{2*proficiency}} will double which proficiency
The example has {{2*abilityscore:con}} which is constitution. That's why I thought "sleight of hand" needed to be somewhere in there to show that it doubles that specific proficiency.
{{2*proficiency:sleightofhand}} or something sounds like what I'm thinking but maybe there's an abbreviation there.
Is there a reason you need to show that? It would probably make more sense just to tell the user to roll a sleight of hand check as this will already be adding any relevant proficiency, or is your intention to provide the double proficiency only in certain circumstances?
You could probably do {{modifier:dex+(2*proficiency)}} if you wanted to show a dexterity modifier with double proficiency added on top, though I'm not 100% sure if that will work (the snippets can super finicky about what works and what doesn't).
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No, Sleight of Hand is not “a proficiency,” it’s a “Skill.” Skills only become proficiencies when chosen by or granted to a PC/creature. It would just be {{2*proficiency}} and whatever else you need to write about it must go outside of the double braces.
I will reiterate, you don’t need that at all. Anything you type into the snippet field will be displayed on the sheet, no actual snippet codes are required unless you need to make a calculation. To make your thing to display the same as the snippets for every feature, trait, or feat that grants either Expertise or Twice Proficiency just type the following:
But if you really want to include the code, all the answers to all of your questions are in here: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/25930-using-snippet-codes-in-your-homebrew), most of them in the very first post. Just do what it says. Just keep in mind that snippet will not reflect anything at all under the Skills section of the sheet. For that you need a Modifier.
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