Hi, all. This is my first real go at making a complete subclass, and I'd love to get opinions on it.
Upfront, I'll say that my design philosophy was basically that the point of the Kensei fantasy is being a supreme master of a chosen weapon, so the subclass should feel like it's all about the weapon ... and not, say, just holding the weapon while only actually using unarmed strikes. I also intentionally avoided expanding the options beyond Monk weapons for two reasons: one, for simplicity, and two, to avoid potentially powerful interactions with things like Great Weapon Master.
To be blunt, this is rather boring compared to the original version, bad as that one may be. They don't get anything apart from attacking with weapons. That being said, I do REALLY like the ability to cast Steel Wind Strike. 5 focus points might be too cheap, though.
I actually really like this variation. It simplifies a subclass that had very little going for it (even in 2014, in my opinion). I do agree that 5 FP to cast steelwing strike might be a tad strong, sadly. Maybe the FP cost could be relative to the amount of targets hit with steel wind strike? For example, have the cost be 5 FP, plus one for every target beyond the first. Also, It think it would be nicer if the number of weapon attacks you can do with flurry of blows would be more gradual (as in, at level 11, you can make 2 out of 3 FoB strikes with your weapon, at level 17 you can do all 3.) Lastly, i think the level 17 feature is really nice, but it basically needs some form of limitation on it. Because - for example - a level 20 kensei would reduce any incoming attack (and level 20 monks are hard to hit in the first place, with easily upwards of 24 AC, and kensei monks are predestined to use the duelist feat, which gives +6 AC at that point) by an average of 45,5 points per attack, at the cost of just 10% of their resource. Meaning, they are basically immune to attacks at that point (Hell, a friggin Tarrasque would need either a fantastic damage roll or a crit to hurt this kensei at all with its physical attacks). I would recommend having the FP cost of the additional reactions increase with each use (so 2 FP for the first free reaction, 4 for the next, 6 for the next, etc., resetting at the start of your turn). This would prevent abusing the feature to be immune to attacks, while still being a worthy consideration. Anyway, thats my 2 cents, feel free to disagree^^.
I actually really like this variation. It simplifies a subclass that had very little going for it (even in 2014, in my opinion). I do agree that 5 FP to cast steelwing strike might be a tad strong, sadly. Maybe the FP cost could be relative to the amount of targets hit with steel wind strike? For example, have the cost be 5 FP, plus one for every target beyond the first.
I based it on the cost it would be in Sorcery Points if a Sorcerer could cast it (which would also be 5), but ... something to consider. I am thinking, though, based on some other feedback elsewhere, of also swapping the feature up to level 17 and moving Superior Deflection down to 11, which brings us to the next point:
Lastly, i think the level 17 feature is really nice, but it basically needs some form of limitation on it. Because - for example - a level 20 kensei would reduce any incoming attack (and level 20 monks are hard to hit in the first place, with easily upwards of 24 AC, and kensei monks are predestined to use the duelist feat, which gives +6 AC at that point) by an average of 45,5 points per attack, at the cost of just 10% of their resource. Meaning, they are basically immune to attacks at that point (Hell, a friggin Tarrasque would need either a fantastic damage roll or a crit to hurt this kensei at all with its physical attacks). I would recommend having the FP cost of the additional reactions increase with each use (so 2 FP for the first free reaction, 4 for the next, 6 for the next, etc., resetting at the start of your turn). This would prevent abusing the feature to be immune to attacks, while still being a worthy consideration.
I think you're right. Actually, I think a more restrictive option might be in order: move it down to level 11 (as discussed) and limit the use of it to once per round. That actually opens up two viable tactical options as well: Monks using a light weapon will probably get and use Defensive Duelist, at least against melee attackers. However, Monks who opt for another kind of weapon for whatever reason can still use Deflect twice per round now: once with the regular Reaction and once by spending 2 Focus Points. Possibly could also tack on the ability to counterattack immediately (for an additional Focus Point?).
Or maybe change is so that when you use Deflect, you can choose to spend 2 Focus points to reduce the damage by an additional amount equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die, and if you reduce the damage to 0, it's considered a miss for all purposes and you get an immediate counterattack? It wouldn't synergize with Defensive Duelist anymore, but that might have been a bit much anyway.
Also, It think it would be nicer if the number of weapon attacks you can do with flurry of blows would be more gradual (as in, at level 11, you can make 2 out of 3 FoB strikes with your weapon, at level 17 you can do all 3.)
This is the one I'm most hesitant about. I understand the impulse, but very few games ever reach level 17, and the Kensei fantasy is all about being weapon-focused. Restricting Flurry like that all of the way to level 17 feels a bit punitive.
Actually, it would be 7. We're both wrong. I was thinking in terms of how it works in the Aberrant Sorcery subclass, which is not the correct way to think about it because they explicitly go outside of what is normal for Sorcerers as far as using Sorcery Points to cast spells. You were looking at the minimum Sorcerer level needed to make the conversion, I think.
However, the key point here is that you caught a mistake of mine. Good eye, and thank you! That will definitely be fixed in the next version.
Lastly, i think the level 17 feature is really nice, but it basically needs some form of limitation on it. Because - for example - a level 20 kensei would reduce any incoming attack (and level 20 monks are hard to hit in the first place, with easily upwards of 24 AC, and kensei monks are predestined to use the duelist feat, which gives +6 AC at that point) by an average of 45,5 points per attack, at the cost of just 10% of their resource. Meaning, they are basically immune to attacks at that point (Hell, a friggin Tarrasque would need either a fantastic damage roll or a crit to hurt this kensei at all with its physical attacks). I would recommend having the FP cost of the additional reactions increase with each use (so 2 FP for the first free reaction, 4 for the next, 6 for the next, etc., resetting at the start of your turn). This would prevent abusing the feature to be immune to attacks, while still being a worthy consideration.
I think you're right. Actually, I think a more restrictive option might be in order: move it down to level 11 (as discussed) and limit the use of it to once per round. That actually opens up two viable tactical options as well: Monks using a light weapon will probably get and use Defensive Duelist, at least against melee attackers. However, Monks who opt for another kind of weapon for whatever reason can still use Deflect twice per round now: once with the regular Reaction and once by spending 2 Focus Points. Possibly could also tack on the ability to counterattack immediately (for an additional Focus Point?).
Or maybe change is so that when you use Deflect, you can choose to spend 2 Focus points to reduce the damage by an additional amount equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die, and if you reduce the damage to 0, it's considered a miss for all purposes and you get an immediate counterattack? It wouldn't synergize with Defensive Duelist anymore, but that might have been a bit much anyway.
I actually was considering suggesting switching the lvl 17 and 11 features, but didnt want to doctor with your idea too much^^.
Also, It think it would be nicer if the number of weapon attacks you can do with flurry of blows would be more gradual (as in, at level 11, you can make 2 out of 3 FoB strikes with your weapon, at level 17 you can do all 3.)
This is the one I'm most hesitant about. I understand the impulse, but very few games ever reach level 17, and the Kensei fantasy is all about being weapon-focused. Restricting Flurry like that all of the way to level 17 feels a bit punitive.
I agree in terms of flavor (who wants to make actual unarmed strikes in class that is all about perfect mastery of a weapon?), but i was approaching it more from a balancing perspective: Making 5 Weapon attacks at lvl 11 for negliable ressource cost is borderline broken. For comparison: The fighter gets 4 weapon attacks at lvl TWENTY, with the last attack literally being their capstone feature. Your kensei, by comparison, can make FIVE weapon attacks at level 11. Not to mention that monks get to upgrade their weapon's damage die over time, which is especially strong with features like dual wielding (you could literally make SIX weapon attacks, all with a D12 damage die, by level 17, even when you push the "3 weapon attack FoB" back to the latest subclass feature).
It also isnt as much of a downgrade as you might think: the one unarmed strike from FoB that you would have at level 11 could be used to either - use it before any weapon attack to shove the target prone, giving you advantage on your FOUR following weapon attacks or - use it to shove after you made your four weapon attacks to push the creature 5 feet away, so you can savely move afterwards without risking opportunity attacks. or - use the damage option to apply a stunning strike before the weapon attacks, in order to get advantage on the weapon attacks.
So its not like the attack is automatically useless just because you cant use it with your kensei weapon.
I also agree that it would be ideal to limit the additional reaction to once per round. I would actually reduce the additional damage reduction to one martial arts die (representing the deflectional move with your kensei weapon), and instead add the second die to the damage that is returned in case the attack is reduced to 0 damage (for a FP). If this is given at level 11, you can even upgrade it at level 17 to have the return damage also include additional attack modifiers from your kensei weapon (for example, 2D6 if you have a viscious weapon by that point, or 3 extra damage on a +3 weapon).
It encourages spending more of your FP for damage, and it also means that the subclass wont be starved of option what to do with their FP at higher levels, even if you hard limit the usage of Steelwind strike to once per short rest, or once per initiative role (for example), at which point it wouldnt matter to much if it is "only" 5 FP or not. I would probably go for something like this: "While you are wielding your chosen weapon, you can expend 5 Focus Points to cast Steelwind Strike, with the following modifications: - The attack uses your regular attack modifier - or the one substituted by your martial arts feature - instead of your spell attack modifer. - The damage on a hit equals 4 (maybe 5, but 4 is quite strong already) rolls of your martial arts die, plus any additional modifiers caused by your chosen weapon. Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you roll Initiative or finish a Short or Long Rest."
Based on feedback received so far (here and elsewhere), I've actually already made some updates. Overall, I nerfed some things, boosted others, added a ribbon, and ... well, take a look I guess!
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Hi, all. This is my first real go at making a complete subclass, and I'd love to get opinions on it.
Upfront, I'll say that my design philosophy was basically that the point of the Kensei fantasy is being a supreme master of a chosen weapon, so the subclass should feel like it's all about the weapon ... and not, say, just holding the weapon while only actually using unarmed strikes. I also intentionally avoided expanding the options beyond Monk weapons for two reasons: one, for simplicity, and two, to avoid potentially powerful interactions with things like Great Weapon Master.
Anyway, enough rambling from me. Here it is.
To be blunt, this is rather boring compared to the original version, bad as that one may be. They don't get anything apart from attacking with weapons. That being said, I do REALLY like the ability to cast Steel Wind Strike. 5 focus points might be too cheap, though.
I actually really like this variation. It simplifies a subclass that had very little going for it (even in 2014, in my opinion). I do agree that 5 FP to cast steelwing strike might be a tad strong, sadly. Maybe the FP cost could be relative to the amount of targets hit with steel wind strike? For example, have the cost be 5 FP, plus one for every target beyond the first.
Also, It think it would be nicer if the number of weapon attacks you can do with flurry of blows would be more gradual (as in, at level 11, you can make 2 out of 3 FoB strikes with your weapon, at level 17 you can do all 3.)
Lastly, i think the level 17 feature is really nice, but it basically needs some form of limitation on it. Because - for example - a level 20 kensei would reduce any incoming attack (and level 20 monks are hard to hit in the first place, with easily upwards of 24 AC, and kensei monks are predestined to use the duelist feat, which gives +6 AC at that point) by an average of 45,5 points per attack, at the cost of just 10% of their resource. Meaning, they are basically immune to attacks at that point (Hell, a friggin Tarrasque would need either a fantastic damage roll or a crit to hurt this kensei at all with its physical attacks).
I would recommend having the FP cost of the additional reactions increase with each use (so 2 FP for the first free reaction, 4 for the next, 6 for the next, etc., resetting at the start of your turn).
This would prevent abusing the feature to be immune to attacks, while still being a worthy consideration.
Anyway, thats my 2 cents, feel free to disagree^^.
First off, thanks for the constructive feedback! That being said, I'll share my thoughts on each point.
I based it on the cost it would be in Sorcery Points if a Sorcerer could cast it (which would also be 5), but ... something to consider. I am thinking, though, based on some other feedback elsewhere, of also swapping the feature up to level 17 and moving Superior Deflection down to 11, which brings us to the next point:
I think you're right. Actually, I think a more restrictive option might be in order: move it down to level 11 (as discussed) and limit the use of it to once per round. That actually opens up two viable tactical options as well: Monks using a light weapon will probably get and use Defensive Duelist, at least against melee attackers. However, Monks who opt for another kind of weapon for whatever reason can still use Deflect twice per round now: once with the regular Reaction and once by spending 2 Focus Points. Possibly could also tack on the ability to counterattack immediately (for an additional Focus Point?).
Or maybe change is so that when you use Deflect, you can choose to spend 2 Focus points to reduce the damage by an additional amount equal to two rolls of your Martial Arts die, and if you reduce the damage to 0, it's considered a miss for all purposes and you get an immediate counterattack? It wouldn't synergize with Defensive Duelist anymore, but that might have been a bit much anyway.
This is the one I'm most hesitant about. I understand the impulse, but very few games ever reach level 17, and the Kensei fantasy is all about being weapon-focused. Restricting Flurry like that all of the way to level 17 feels a bit punitive.
The cost in Sorcery Points would be 9, not 5.
Actually, it would be 7. We're both wrong. I was thinking in terms of how it works in the Aberrant Sorcery subclass, which is not the correct way to think about it because they explicitly go outside of what is normal for Sorcerers as far as using Sorcery Points to cast spells. You were looking at the minimum Sorcerer level needed to make the conversion, I think.
However, the key point here is that you caught a mistake of mine. Good eye, and thank you! That will definitely be fixed in the next version.
I actually was considering suggesting switching the lvl 17 and 11 features, but didnt want to doctor with your idea too much^^.
I agree in terms of flavor (who wants to make actual unarmed strikes in class that is all about perfect mastery of a weapon?), but i was approaching it more from a balancing perspective:
Making 5 Weapon attacks at lvl 11 for negliable ressource cost is borderline broken. For comparison: The fighter gets 4 weapon attacks at lvl TWENTY, with the last attack literally being their capstone feature. Your kensei, by comparison, can make FIVE weapon attacks at level 11. Not to mention that monks get to upgrade their weapon's damage die over time, which is especially strong with features like dual wielding (you could literally make SIX weapon attacks, all with a D12 damage die, by level 17, even when you push the "3 weapon attack FoB" back to the latest subclass feature).
It also isnt as much of a downgrade as you might think: the one unarmed strike from FoB that you would have at level 11 could be used to either
- use it before any weapon attack to shove the target prone, giving you advantage on your FOUR following weapon attacks
or
- use it to shove after you made your four weapon attacks to push the creature 5 feet away, so you can savely move afterwards without risking opportunity attacks.
or
- use the damage option to apply a stunning strike before the weapon attacks, in order to get advantage on the weapon attacks.
So its not like the attack is automatically useless just because you cant use it with your kensei weapon.
I also agree that it would be ideal to limit the additional reaction to once per round. I would actually reduce the additional damage reduction to one martial arts die (representing the deflectional move with your kensei weapon), and instead add the second die to the damage that is returned in case the attack is reduced to 0 damage (for a FP). If this is given at level 11, you can even upgrade it at level 17 to have the return damage also include additional attack modifiers from your kensei weapon (for example, 2D6 if you have a viscious weapon by that point, or 3 extra damage on a +3 weapon).
It encourages spending more of your FP for damage, and it also means that the subclass wont be starved of option what to do with their FP at higher levels, even if you hard limit the usage of Steelwind strike to once per short rest, or once per initiative role (for example), at which point it wouldnt matter to much if it is "only" 5 FP or not. I would probably go for something like this:
"While you are wielding your chosen weapon, you can expend 5 Focus Points to cast Steelwind Strike, with the following modifications:
- The attack uses your regular attack modifier - or the one substituted by your martial arts feature - instead of your spell attack modifer.
- The damage on a hit equals 4 (maybe 5, but 4 is quite strong already) rolls of your martial arts die, plus any additional modifiers caused by your chosen weapon.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you roll Initiative or finish a Short or Long Rest."
Based on feedback received so far (here and elsewhere), I've actually already made some updates. Overall, I nerfed some things, boosted others, added a ribbon, and ... well, take a look I guess!