I'm primarily a player. I haven't played a druid yet, I know that they're half indestructible but from looking, they're attack & hit + falls when the beasts' CR gets passed by the player level.
There are also not a lot of magical items for druids of the moon other than a few things that CAN work for them (displacement robes & insignia of claws, etc). What do you guys think of the balance of these items that I thought of; (all names tentative)
Totem of the Tiny (attune by druid): a small totem or pendant shaped like a tiny beast. Allows the user to turn into a tiny creature at will without expending a wild shape slot. All other wild shape rules apply. If the user is somehow unwillingly reverted to their true form (losing all hp) they either DO expend a slot or can't use this until they complete a long rest
(can also be more specific: totem of the squirrel, totem of the owl, etc) -- While most other druids use their wild shape for utility a moon druid uses it all for combat at a rate of 2x per short rest (or even 1x with elemental form). This would give the moon druid their utility back, unless until level 20 when no druid needs it any more.
Essence of Bestial Strength, +1, +2, +3 (attune by druid): The user can now turn into a form with a CR rating 1 (2, 3) higher than their wild shape rules allow.
Granted turning into a mammoth at max level is cool we all know what we really want... a T rex!!! This would give that cool-ness and would also allow a little more strength unlocked at earlier levels. I was thinking of straight up doubling the wild shape CR restrictions but a CR 12 beast at lv 20 doesn't even exist and I would think would be too OP, if not the final CR at 20 but even through the journey getting there.
Claw of the Monstrosity/Tentacle of the Aberration/ Tooth of the Dragon/ Horn of the fiend/etc (attune by druid):The druid can now learn forms from the monstrosity/aberration/dragon class of beasts. All other wild shape rules apply.
I know that there are a few complete homebrewed subclasses granting non-beast forms but this would allow you to retain the RAW subclass and just give more options (I'm currently playing with a land druid who is sticking to 'can only turn into things you see'... so after every battle, he asks if he can study the slain beast.. unfortunately, he cannot learn an owlbear form or learn a grick form or learn a dragon form and gets a little deflated after the encounter...
Honestly, the last one seems almost like the capstone ability for a new subclass of Druid more than something granted by an item. The other two seem mostly fair, although for the Totem of the Tiny I do agree it would make sense for it should be for specific creatures... there's potentially too much room for abuse if the only qualifier is for the creature to be "tiny". I also think it should have a number of charges per day, or some other cost attached. Even 3 uses or less per day is still a large boon to players who keep finding themselves in situations where a tactical beast shape would get them out of a sticky situation, without needing to cripple themselves in combat later on.
Thanks for the reply. I know the last item can be powerful but 2 reasons why I don't think that's an issue;
1) I haven't really set a rarity but you can make it rare, very rare or even legendary, giving it, in essence a level requirement (like how you said it should be a capstone) only the absolute most generous DMs would give a level 1 group a bunch of legendaries. It can also be a fun quest - the part must be harvested from the most strongest creature of that category (no taking a cr 1 imp horn) & there can be an entire quest line.. bringing it to the druid cove. Attuning your own body to be able to accept these new forms.
2) you would still need to follow the rest of the wild shape rules so until level 8 dragon forms are worthless because you can't yet fly not to mention that without my 2nd item, (even with it) you'd only be able to turn into drakes & wyrmlings at Level 20!!.. strong but not OP.. as the next tier of dragons are young at cr 7 (using even my +3 to cr wouldn't give you a red or gold young dragon - they're CR 10)
And for other types of creatures CR ratings are all over the place from 1/4 fiends.. and turning into an owlbear CR 3 at level 9 when every other class can do pretty crazy things isnt so wild either.. at least in my opinion.
And having slots AND specific forms for totem of the tiny is fair but I think it shouldn't then require attunement. Let the druid get one for a rat and another for a bat and another for a fish. It can even be like a charm pendant which each charm offering a different form. They can share charges.
I think that would be fair if totems of the tiny shared charges but new forms could be added. It's a bit complicated, but I think it would be fun if there's a sort of base Totem, but other forms can be fused to it until it forms basically a small totem pole (approximately the size of a rod) with a variety of forms. So it ultimately ends up still being treated as one item in the long run. Maybe set a limit to how many forms can be fused to it (maybe three to give the player a solid option of crawling/swimming/flying)
I think for the last one it sounds more balanced with these extra details... I don't DM so I actually kind of avoid looking up too much specific information on monsters lol to avoid accidental meta-gaming, but you're right that applying the Druid Wild Shape restrictions does keep things more in line. It's probably still a bit unbalanced in the long run, but I think it's okay to introduce unbalanced items occasionally especially if it's to give players a satisfying reward for a difficult quest. Why go through all that effort just to get something that's only marginally better than what you could buy in town?
Yea, a totem, a charm necklace with individual charms. It's all the same. I'm mainly a player and don't even know if I'll DM a moon druid just ideas that I've had.
I personally don't think its OVERpowered compared to the features that other classes get at level 10-20. You can attack 4 times as a fighter, add 10d6 Per turn as rogue, add a billion dice on a paladin smite... I'm not even going to go into spellcasters.. Turning into an owlbear instead of a bear at level 15 isn't terribly overpowered.. and with the restriction of needing a magical item, not that different than the crazy magical items that are out there.
Oh yeah, I'm just kind of assuming that there's probably some fairly low CR monsters that are actually way deadlier than their CR would imply. The only one I know off the top of my head is an Intellect Devourer, which is only CR 2 but is capable of reducing opponents to 0 Int and is capable of insta-killing and possessing another creature's body.
Oh wow. They're pretty crazy. and it's detect sentience is crazy. As far as I know there isn't any PC version of this spell either!
I also haven't delved too deep into the monster manual, I know most have unique abilities but I don't know if theyre this crazy. I also forgot about resistances/immunities.. Should I remove that? Or have immunities turn to resistances and remove any resistances. vulnerabilities stay? or just keep everything as is?
Let's not forget that just from a pure fighting monster balance perspective, most overly offensive monsters would have a low AC and/or HP
lol I'm not sure what kind of limits are needed to put in to keep it from being abused by a savvy player. That's probably part of why it doesn't normally allow players to just change into monstrosities/demons/etc.
Maybe it would be better to balance it more like Elemental Wild Shape, where there's a small pool of specific creatures they can wild shape into. That way the DM can make sure that they have balanced and interesting choices to choose from.
Honestly, Fun trumps balance, especially with groups of friends. It's really only unbalanced if the player is going out of their way to metagame or use it to min/max through situations. If someone just wants more variety with their wild shape and isn't trying to screw up all the DMs plans then the only real limit is what everyone at the table enjoys.
Hey everyone,
I'm primarily a player. I haven't played a druid yet, I know that they're half indestructible but from looking, they're attack & hit + falls when the beasts' CR gets passed by the player level.
There are also not a lot of magical items for druids of the moon other than a few things that CAN work for them (displacement robes & insignia of claws, etc). What do you guys think of the balance of these items that I thought of; (all names tentative)
Totem of the Tiny (attune by druid): a small totem or pendant shaped like a tiny beast. Allows the user to turn into a tiny creature at will without expending a wild shape slot. All other wild shape rules apply. If the user is somehow unwillingly reverted to their true form (losing all hp) they either DO expend a slot or can't use this until they complete a long rest
(can also be more specific: totem of the squirrel, totem of the owl, etc) -- While most other druids use their wild shape for utility a moon druid uses it all for combat at a rate of 2x per short rest (or even 1x with elemental form). This would give the moon druid their utility back, unless until level 20 when no druid needs it any more.
Essence of Bestial Strength, +1, +2, +3 (attune by druid): The user can now turn into a form with a CR rating 1 (2, 3) higher than their wild shape rules allow.
Granted turning into a mammoth at max level is cool we all know what we really want... a T rex!!! This would give that cool-ness and would also allow a little more strength unlocked at earlier levels. I was thinking of straight up doubling the wild shape CR restrictions but a CR 12 beast at lv 20 doesn't even exist and I would think would be too OP, if not the final CR at 20 but even through the journey getting there.
Claw of the Monstrosity/Tentacle of the Aberration/ Tooth of the Dragon/ Horn of the fiend/etc (attune by druid): The druid can now learn forms from the monstrosity/aberration/dragon class of beasts. All other wild shape rules apply.
I know that there are a few complete homebrewed subclasses granting non-beast forms but this would allow you to retain the RAW subclass and just give more options (I'm currently playing with a land druid who is sticking to 'can only turn into things you see'... so after every battle, he asks if he can study the slain beast.. unfortunately, he cannot learn an owlbear form or learn a grick form or learn a dragon form and gets a little deflated after the encounter...
So what do you guys think? Too much? too little?
Honestly, the last one seems almost like the capstone ability for a new subclass of Druid more than something granted by an item. The other two seem mostly fair, although for the Totem of the Tiny I do agree it would make sense for it should be for specific creatures... there's potentially too much room for abuse if the only qualifier is for the creature to be "tiny". I also think it should have a number of charges per day, or some other cost attached. Even 3 uses or less per day is still a large boon to players who keep finding themselves in situations where a tactical beast shape would get them out of a sticky situation, without needing to cripple themselves in combat later on.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Thanks for the reply. I know the last item can be powerful but 2 reasons why I don't think that's an issue;
1) I haven't really set a rarity but you can make it rare, very rare or even legendary, giving it, in essence a level requirement (like how you said it should be a capstone) only the absolute most generous DMs would give a level 1 group a bunch of legendaries. It can also be a fun quest - the part must be harvested from the most strongest creature of that category (no taking a cr 1 imp horn) & there can be an entire quest line.. bringing it to the druid cove. Attuning your own body to be able to accept these new forms.
2) you would still need to follow the rest of the wild shape rules so until level 8 dragon forms are worthless because you can't yet fly not to mention that without my 2nd item, (even with it) you'd only be able to turn into drakes & wyrmlings at Level 20!!.. strong but not OP.. as the next tier of dragons are young at cr 7 (using even my +3 to cr wouldn't give you a red or gold young dragon - they're CR 10)
And for other types of creatures CR ratings are all over the place from 1/4 fiends.. and turning into an owlbear CR 3 at level 9 when every other class can do pretty crazy things isnt so wild either.. at least in my opinion.
And having slots AND specific forms for totem of the tiny is fair but I think it shouldn't then require attunement. Let the druid get one for a rat and another for a bat and another for a fish. It can even be like a charm pendant which each charm offering a different form. They can share charges.
Thoughts?
I think that would be fair if totems of the tiny shared charges but new forms could be added. It's a bit complicated, but I think it would be fun if there's a sort of base Totem, but other forms can be fused to it until it forms basically a small totem pole (approximately the size of a rod) with a variety of forms. So it ultimately ends up still being treated as one item in the long run. Maybe set a limit to how many forms can be fused to it (maybe three to give the player a solid option of crawling/swimming/flying)
I think for the last one it sounds more balanced with these extra details... I don't DM so I actually kind of avoid looking up too much specific information on monsters lol to avoid accidental meta-gaming, but you're right that applying the Druid Wild Shape restrictions does keep things more in line. It's probably still a bit unbalanced in the long run, but I think it's okay to introduce unbalanced items occasionally especially if it's to give players a satisfying reward for a difficult quest. Why go through all that effort just to get something that's only marginally better than what you could buy in town?
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Yea, a totem, a charm necklace with individual charms. It's all the same. I'm mainly a player and don't even know if I'll DM a moon druid just ideas that I've had.
I personally don't think its OVERpowered compared to the features that other classes get at level 10-20. You can attack 4 times as a fighter, add 10d6 Per turn as rogue, add a billion dice on a paladin smite... I'm not even going to go into spellcasters.. Turning into an owlbear instead of a bear at level 15 isn't terribly overpowered.. and with the restriction of needing a magical item, not that different than the crazy magical items that are out there.
Oh yeah, I'm just kind of assuming that there's probably some fairly low CR monsters that are actually way deadlier than their CR would imply. The only one I know off the top of my head is an Intellect Devourer, which is only CR 2 but is capable of reducing opponents to 0 Int and is capable of insta-killing and possessing another creature's body.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Oh wow. They're pretty crazy. and it's detect sentience is crazy. As far as I know there isn't any PC version of this spell either!
I also haven't delved too deep into the monster manual, I know most have unique abilities but I don't know if theyre this crazy. I also forgot about resistances/immunities.. Should I remove that? Or have immunities turn to resistances and remove any resistances. vulnerabilities stay? or just keep everything as is?
Let's not forget that just from a pure fighting monster balance perspective, most overly offensive monsters would have a low AC and/or HP
lol I'm not sure what kind of limits are needed to put in to keep it from being abused by a savvy player. That's probably part of why it doesn't normally allow players to just change into monstrosities/demons/etc.
Maybe it would be better to balance it more like Elemental Wild Shape, where there's a small pool of specific creatures they can wild shape into. That way the DM can make sure that they have balanced and interesting choices to choose from.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
That's not as fun :(
First, I need to see if I ever DM a moon druid (or decide to play one myself) and I can playtest it and work from there
*shrug*
Honestly, Fun trumps balance, especially with groups of friends. It's really only unbalanced if the player is going out of their way to metagame or use it to min/max through situations. If someone just wants more variety with their wild shape and isn't trying to screw up all the DMs plans then the only real limit is what everyone at the table enjoys.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium