I was requested by one of my players to give this a go who wants to bring over a 4e character to 5e. This is my first crack at brewing this up as I was not satisfied with much of anything I found in other google searches in capturing the flavor of the 4E Aegis of Assault Swordmage.
The main idea is to create an arcane character which puts enemies in a catch 22. Come after them, or get punished. They need to be able to harass enemies enough to draw attention, and then be able to survive that attention. I'm not looking for a ton of damage, but a hit and run play style which a smart player can use to confound enemies. Yes, I know of the Bladesinger, Eldritch Knight, Various multiclassing options with Sorcs and Locks, but none felt quite right.
Yes, this brings a few things into 5E which have not been seen yet, but which makes this class flavor unique. Hopefully I kept to the 5E style in transition, but doing things like running average damage numbers versus other classes and the like are just not my thing, which is why I bring it here. If you are just going to be rude without contributing a basis for your opinion, please just move along. This is my first homebrew for 5E, if it goes well, I'll work on the other archetypes as well as paring down the spell list.
I do want to be sure they don't overshadow the other characters, who most likely will be something already published by WotC.
Better than a lot of the stuff I've read. It's mostly just EK and Bladesinger features outside of the mark. Levels 14 and 17 are huge power jumps. I'd just have Aegis always move at full speed and increase the amount of targets you can mark as mentioned. I'm not sure what to do with level 14. GFB and BB scale already, so all of a sudden doubling that is huge. There's also no point in making a regular melee attack with the level 18 feature when you could GFB/BB instead. I'd have Arcane Dervish create one magical shard per target rather than effectively casting Magic Missile. I'd also nix the attack changes at level 6. Unless I missed it, Martial Alacrity doesn't have a level and is just kinda "there", so I'd move the extra attack to level 6 and the bonus action disengage to level 2 if I were to keep it at all (or better yet, tack it onto aegis). I'd also fold the level 7 feature into level 10, or at the very least remove the 1min duration and have then recharge on short rest. That gives you a choice between using your reaction for offense (aegis) or defense, but with each recharging on short rest you'll have plenty of opportunities to use your reaction.
Like I said, overall its not terrible. It seems like it generally follows the power curves of most other classes, but its not as smooth and probably a little too high overall. I personally would rather it just be a subclass than on its own, especially if there's just going to be the one archetype that is the class. Wizard would be the best fit as an offensive counterpart to the Bladesinger. The Wizard base would also justify some of the power this brings since its unsupported by what normally makes a wizard great. Should you choose to do so, I'd focus on keeping the mark and some of the attack based enhancements as those are your most defining features. I envision it working really well as the Wizard's version of the Stone Sorcerer archetype. Good rule of thumb: If it feels balanced, its probably too powerful. If it feels slightly underpowered, it's probably much closer to balanced.
Better than a lot of the stuff I've read. It's mostly just EK and Bladesinger features outside of the mark.
- Thank you, and yes, with an arcane melee type, it was to be expected to draw those comparisons. The mark is really what changes up the play style to more closely match the 4e version in 5e mechanics.
Levels 14 and 17 are huge power jumps.
- Was really trying to think of something to boost their melee presence at 14. Forgetting that cantrips scale pretty well in 5e, yeah, that is quite the spike to double cast cantrips. It is one of my sticking points. As you mention later, not really sure what to do at 14.
I'd just have Aegis always move at full speed and increase the amount of targets you can mark as mentioned.
- I considered this, but when you factor in Longstrideror similar at early levels, eventually getting Haste, it felt alright to have it at half speed and scale later. This is something playtesting is really going to pan out on. Though it does limit racial choices a bit away from the short legged variety. Need to consider this more.
I'm not sure what to do with level 14. GFB and BB scale already, so all of a sudden doubling that is huge.
- Yeah, something needs to be here, but what is the question. Maybe can use BB or GFB as one of the attacks in a multi attack, but it felt like War Magic at twice the level the EK would get it.
There's also no point in making a regular melee attack with the level 18 feature when you could GFB/BB instead.
- Agreed, just need to alter the wording there. I still need to pare down the spell list, but the idea was to not prevent casting a self buff and doing some damage on a turn this far along, or amping up the damage a little for this half-caster class.
I'd have Arcane Dervish create one magical shard per target rather than effectively casting Magic Missile.
- I like this. I had a free magic missile in mind when this triggered. 2d4+2 on an off target isn't bad free damage, though the triggering may not be frequent.
I'd also nix the attack changes at level 6.
- My intention was to add some flavor with mechanics, enabling the blade to be the conduit of close ranged spells. Perhaps this could be broken out and moved to that lvl 14 spot and it generally should be an accuracy increase by using a basic attack stat over a potential off casting stat. I also wanted to not be quite so MAD dependent and allow some room for feats vs. ability scores.
Unless I missed it, Martial Alacrity doesn't have a level and is just kinda "there", so I'd move the extra attack to level 6 and the bonus action disengage to level 2 if I were to keep it at all (or better yet, tack it onto aegis).
- Martial Alacrity was renamed from extra attack at level 5 (and I missed adding the level info and updating the chart) and adding the disengage. Thought giving bonus action disengage stepped on rogue toes at level 2, but they do also get hide and dash options. I think I've found an answer to the envisioned playstyle.
I'd also fold the level 7 feature into level 10, or at the very least remove the 1min duration and have then recharge on short rest. That gives you a choice between using your reaction for offense (aegis) or defense, but with each recharging on short rest you'll have plenty of opportunities to use your reaction.
- Removing the duration for a short rest recharge works for the flavor I was thinking of. At 10th, the idea was moving past the point of the mundane being much of a threat.
Like I said, overall its not terrible. It seems like it generally follows the power curves of most other classes, but its not as smooth and probably a little too high overall. I personally would rather it just be a subclass than on its own, especially if there's just going to be the one archetype that is the class.
- The idea is to have different archetypes based on different aegis effects, this was just the first one to be tackled. Base wizard was an idea, but it's hard for an archetype to justify a jump in HD.
Wizard would be the best fit as an offensive counterpart to the Bladesinger. The Wizard base would also justify some of the power this brings since its unsupported by what normally makes a wizard great. Should you choose to do so, I'd focus on keeping the mark and some of the attack based enhancements as those are your most defining features.
- Check out the edits, and let me know what you think in smoothing the power curve. Also keep in mind, spell list is not set yet, but will focus on self buffs, debuffs, and a smattering of common evocations. The mark/aegis is indeed the defining characteristic, and the focus. The archetypes will use the mark in different ways.
I envision it working really well as the Wizard's version of the Stone Sorcerer archetype. Good rule of thumb: If it feels balanced, its probably too powerful. If it feels slightly underpowered, it's probably much closer to balanced.
Seems like the class is 100% combat focused. Needs some utility.
The Aegis itself transfers fine, but it would be easier to judge if you could format it like other classes, where the subclass features are in a block. Right now it reads like there is no subclass.
Cantrips and spell list need to be a specific list like other classes, and again, give the class some utility.
Cantrips, half caster spell progression, extra attack, and 4 skills? It just doesn't read like a 5e class.
I've been trying to give it some sort of utility, but out of ideas. Identify at 3 fit well I thought. Beyond that, just drawing blanks. After having to help clean up character sheets for a game I started last week, I do see where 4 skills is a bit much, especially when backgrounds are included, so planned to knock that down to Arcana +1 for the base class.
Archetypes will be broken out, the formatting at the moment just helps me keep it all straight in my mind for a level progression point of view. I'll see if I can get the subclass bits pulled to the side.
Cantrips are the core of some of the catch 22 abilities, so needed those, and with an int based caster class, it didn't seem too far of a stretch. The extra attack and fighting style go with the idea that this is a melee based tank type character, with spells. This particular archetype is more offensive than others, so you're seeing that play out. I'm still paring down the spell list for the base class, and can use aegis specific spells to fill in gaps I feel are needed for the subclass.
Going the warlock invocation type build never fit the original play style. Where the bladesinger is a caster who can whack people, the swordmage is a melee-centric arcanist, using magic instead of armor for protection (see EK). A blade pact lock is close, but as I say, still not the same. Strategic spell usage is important to the Swordmage character, outside of cantrips. Notice, no arcane recovery, no spell slot regeneration. You get what you get for the day.
Look for formatting updates shortly, and I'll probably take a crack at aegis of shielding as I break it out.
I'm not sure I communicated well regarding the warlock comment. What I was suggesting was Warlock casting instead of wizard casting. IMO it fits the concept much more than wizard casting, and the warlock framework is much closer to the 4e swordmage. Both casting types fit everything you said just as well.
Anyway, I get what you're saying with the cantrips and extra attack, but look at the other classes. Something like what Bladesingers and EK get would fit better than extra attack, anyway.
Cantrips: Mold Earth, Shape Water, etc, would go a long way to injecting some utility to the class.
Ultimately, you need to think outside of the combat role concepts, and come up with some story based concepts to build feature around for this class, if you want it to behave anything like a 5e class. Aegis is just a fighting style for magic fighters, not a subclass concept. Ditch Fighting Style, replace it with the choice of 3+ Aegis types, and then come up with some schools that different swordmages may have come from. Bonus points if you ditch the restriction to bladed weapons. Instead, some Aegis options could have bonuses with different weapon types, in addition to their mark feature.
Edit: if you're going to restrict 1 skill to having to be Arcana (something no other class does), it should be extra. So, Arcana+2 would be fine. But even Wizards aren't automatically proficient in Arcana.
Also, remember that you've made the only 5e class with half casting and cantrips. Every other half caster lacks cantrips. Not saying it needs to be 1/3 or full, but keep that in mind when judging the balance of the class.
I was requested by one of my players to give this a go who wants to bring over a 4e character to 5e. This is my first crack at brewing this up as I was not satisfied with much of anything I found in other google searches in capturing the flavor of the 4E Aegis of Assault Swordmage.
The main idea is to create an arcane character which puts enemies in a catch 22. Come after them, or get punished. They need to be able to harass enemies enough to draw attention, and then be able to survive that attention. I'm not looking for a ton of damage, but a hit and run play style which a smart player can use to confound enemies. Yes, I know of the Bladesinger, Eldritch Knight, Various multiclassing options with Sorcs and Locks, but none felt quite right.
Yes, this brings a few things into 5E which have not been seen yet, but which makes this class flavor unique. Hopefully I kept to the 5E style in transition, but doing things like running average damage numbers versus other classes and the like are just not my thing, which is why I bring it here. If you are just going to be rude without contributing a basis for your opinion, please just move along. This is my first homebrew for 5E, if it goes well, I'll work on the other archetypes as well as paring down the spell list.
I do want to be sure they don't overshadow the other characters, who most likely will be something already published by WotC.
Swordmage – 5e version
Better than a lot of the stuff I've read. It's mostly just EK and Bladesinger features outside of the mark. Levels 14 and 17 are huge power jumps. I'd just have Aegis always move at full speed and increase the amount of targets you can mark as mentioned. I'm not sure what to do with level 14. GFB and BB scale already, so all of a sudden doubling that is huge. There's also no point in making a regular melee attack with the level 18 feature when you could GFB/BB instead. I'd have Arcane Dervish create one magical shard per target rather than effectively casting Magic Missile. I'd also nix the attack changes at level 6. Unless I missed it, Martial Alacrity doesn't have a level and is just kinda "there", so I'd move the extra attack to level 6 and the bonus action disengage to level 2 if I were to keep it at all (or better yet, tack it onto aegis). I'd also fold the level 7 feature into level 10, or at the very least remove the 1min duration and have then recharge on short rest. That gives you a choice between using your reaction for offense (aegis) or defense, but with each recharging on short rest you'll have plenty of opportunities to use your reaction.
Like I said, overall its not terrible. It seems like it generally follows the power curves of most other classes, but its not as smooth and probably a little too high overall. I personally would rather it just be a subclass than on its own, especially if there's just going to be the one archetype that is the class. Wizard would be the best fit as an offensive counterpart to the Bladesinger. The Wizard base would also justify some of the power this brings since its unsupported by what normally makes a wizard great. Should you choose to do so, I'd focus on keeping the mark and some of the attack based enhancements as those are your most defining features. I envision it working really well as the Wizard's version of the Stone Sorcerer archetype. Good rule of thumb: If it feels balanced, its probably too powerful. If it feels slightly underpowered, it's probably much closer to balanced.
Latest iteration: 5E - Swordmage - Google doc
Seems like the class is 100% combat focused. Needs some utility.
The Aegis itself transfers fine, but it would be easier to judge if you could format it like other classes, where the subclass features are in a block. Right now it reads like there is no subclass.
Cantrips and spell list need to be a specific list like other classes, and again, give the class some utility.
Cantrips, half caster spell progression, extra attack, and 4 skills? It just doesn't read like a 5e class.
Why not build it more like a warlock?
We do bones, motherf***ker!
I've been trying to give it some sort of utility, but out of ideas. Identify at 3 fit well I thought. Beyond that, just drawing blanks. After having to help clean up character sheets for a game I started last week, I do see where 4 skills is a bit much, especially when backgrounds are included, so planned to knock that down to Arcana +1 for the base class.
Archetypes will be broken out, the formatting at the moment just helps me keep it all straight in my mind for a level progression point of view. I'll see if I can get the subclass bits pulled to the side.
Cantrips are the core of some of the catch 22 abilities, so needed those, and with an int based caster class, it didn't seem too far of a stretch. The extra attack and fighting style go with the idea that this is a melee based tank type character, with spells. This particular archetype is more offensive than others, so you're seeing that play out. I'm still paring down the spell list for the base class, and can use aegis specific spells to fill in gaps I feel are needed for the subclass.
Going the warlock invocation type build never fit the original play style. Where the bladesinger is a caster who can whack people, the swordmage is a melee-centric arcanist, using magic instead of armor for protection (see EK). A blade pact lock is close, but as I say, still not the same. Strategic spell usage is important to the Swordmage character, outside of cantrips. Notice, no arcane recovery, no spell slot regeneration. You get what you get for the day.
Look for formatting updates shortly, and I'll probably take a crack at aegis of shielding as I break it out.
I'm not sure I communicated well regarding the warlock comment. What I was suggesting was Warlock casting instead of wizard casting. IMO it fits the concept much more than wizard casting, and the warlock framework is much closer to the 4e swordmage. Both casting types fit everything you said just as well.
Anyway, I get what you're saying with the cantrips and extra attack, but look at the other classes. Something like what Bladesingers and EK get would fit better than extra attack, anyway.
Cantrips: Mold Earth, Shape Water, etc, would go a long way to injecting some utility to the class.
Ultimately, you need to think outside of the combat role concepts, and come up with some story based concepts to build feature around for this class, if you want it to behave anything like a 5e class. Aegis is just a fighting style for magic fighters, not a subclass concept. Ditch Fighting Style, replace it with the choice of 3+ Aegis types, and then come up with some schools that different swordmages may have come from. Bonus points if you ditch the restriction to bladed weapons. Instead, some Aegis options could have bonuses with different weapon types, in addition to their mark feature.
Edit: if you're going to restrict 1 skill to having to be Arcana (something no other class does), it should be extra. So, Arcana+2 would be fine. But even Wizards aren't automatically proficient in Arcana.
Also, remember that you've made the only 5e class with half casting and cantrips. Every other half caster lacks cantrips. Not saying it needs to be 1/3 or full, but keep that in mind when judging the balance of the class.
We do bones, motherf***ker!
I know this is an old discussion but I found a 5e swordmage class homebrew https://drive.google.com/file/d/15CH7fRqozStDffAkFqOmnpNOfjZjS9cU/view