While true, their FoB options do give them features for those unarmed strikes that others do not have, incentivizing there.
I was hoping that the OHT would have applied to all unarmed strikes and not just FoB, but guess they didn’t want to change too much. Or at least allow OH monks to choose two of the Unarmed Strike options (damage, grapple, shove) with their strikes.
And instead of your wording it would probably be easier/clearer to say, “when you make an unarmed strike…
But I wouldn’t be opposed to them adding a feature that focused more on being open handed, as you suggested
Edit: not sure if there was much change to it after the UA but if not Wholeness of Body is the only feature that can’t be used with unarmed strikes. Fleet Step you can BA unarmed strike or FoB and also SotW. Their Attack action is the only other outlier.
While true, their FoB options do give them features for those unarmed strikes that others do not have, incentivizing there.
I was hoping that the OHT would have applied to all unarmed strikes and not just FoB, but guess they didn’t want to change too much. Or at least allow OH monks to choose two of the Unarmed Strike options (damage, grapple, shove) with their strikes.
And instead of your wording it would probably be easier/clearer to say, “when you make an unarmed strike…
But I wouldn’t be opposed to them adding a feature that focused more on being open handed, as you suggested
Edit: not sure if there was much change to it after the UA but if not Wholeness of Body is the only feature that can’t be used with unarmed strikes. Fleet Step you can BA unarmed strike or FoB and also SotW. Their Attack action is the only other outlier.
They pretty much have that with Open Hand Technique and Quivering Palm (at 17). But the thing is you can hold a weapon and even use weapons and still use those abilities. There is no benefit to Warrior of the Open Hand to actually be open handed.
The 2024 WoOH Monk is fine mechanically, but in my opinion it’s missing something.
There is zero incentive to actually have open hands. You can wield and use weapons, or not, it makes no difference.
There should be a feature that reads “when you aren’t wearing armor or a shield, or holding any weapons…”
It doesn’t have to be crazy powerful. Just a little something. What do you think? 🤔
I guess I don't understand how the incentive is to have limitations? In any sense the limitations are already mentioned in the base class. Most traditional martial arts train both with or without weapons. Unarmed doesn't only mean with your hand/fists. It also includes feet, knees, elbows and headbutts.
The 2024 WoOH Monk is fine mechanically, but in my opinion it’s missing something.
There is zero incentive to actually have open hands. You can wield and use weapons, or not, it makes no difference.
There should be a feature that reads “when you aren’t wearing armor or a shield, or holding any weapons…”
It doesn’t have to be crazy powerful. Just a little something. What do you think? 🤔
I guess I don't understand how the incentive is to have limitations? In any sense the limitations are already mentioned in the base class. Most traditional martial arts train both with or without weapons. Unarmed doesn't only mean with your hand/fists. It also includes feet, knees, elbows and headbutts.
I don’t think of it as a limitation but an emphasis on open hands on the Warrior of the Open Hand. And as SeanJP said it doesn’t have to be powerful but something to set them apart from the other subclasses that fight unarmed.
But I get your point, if you happen to get a magic shortsword or quarterstaff or scimitar you don’t want to feel like you can’t use it because you are hyper focused on unarmed strikes.
While true, their FoB options do give them features for those unarmed strikes that others do not have, incentivizing there.
I was hoping that the OHT would have applied to all unarmed strikes and not just FoB, but guess they didn’t want to change too much. Or at least allow OH monks to choose two of the Unarmed Strike options (damage, grapple, shove) with their strikes.
And instead of your wording it would probably be easier/clearer to say, “when you make an unarmed strike…
But I wouldn’t be opposed to them adding a feature that focused more on being open handed, as you suggested
Edit: not sure if there was much change to it after the UA but if not Wholeness of Body is the only feature that can’t be used with unarmed strikes. Fleet Step you can BA unarmed strike or FoB and also SotW. Their Attack action is the only other outlier.
They pretty much have that with Open Hand Technique and Quivering Palm (at 17). But the thing is you can hold a weapon and even use weapons and still use those abilities. There is no benefit to Warrior of the Open Hand to actually be open handed.
When I read from this and interpreted is looking for something like this (maybe)
At level 11, when no weapon is equipped you gain advantage (x) number of attacks on your turn . You can use this feature based on your wisdom modifier. Once used, you can’t use again until it long rest.
which in my opinion would not be over powering and incentivizing the OH subclass.
While true, their FoB options do give them features for those unarmed strikes that others do not have, incentivizing there.
I was hoping that the OHT would have applied to all unarmed strikes and not just FoB, but guess they didn’t want to change too much. Or at least allow OH monks to choose two of the Unarmed Strike options (damage, grapple, shove) with their strikes.
And instead of your wording it would probably be easier/clearer to say, “when you make an unarmed strike…
But I wouldn’t be opposed to them adding a feature that focused more on being open handed, as you suggested
Edit: not sure if there was much change to it after the UA but if not Wholeness of Body is the only feature that can’t be used with unarmed strikes. Fleet Step you can BA unarmed strike or FoB and also SotW. Their Attack action is the only other outlier.
They pretty much have that with Open Hand Technique and Quivering Palm (at 17). But the thing is you can hold a weapon and even use weapons and still use those abilities. There is no benefit to Warrior of the Open Hand to actually be open handed.
When I read from this and interpreted is looking for something like this (maybe)
At level 11, when no weapon is equipped you gain advantage (x) number of attacks on your turn . You can use this feature based on your wisdom modifier. Once used, you can’t use again until it long rest.
which in my opinion would not be over powering and incentivizing the OH subclass.
Interesting idea. Or even along the lines of “ for one minute you have advantage on attacks” once per long rest. Or a damage bump or two options at once from Open Hand Technique.
While true, their FoB options do give them features for those unarmed strikes that others do not have, incentivizing there.
I was hoping that the OHT would have applied to all unarmed strikes and not just FoB, but guess they didn’t want to change too much. Or at least allow OH monks to choose two of the Unarmed Strike options (damage, grapple, shove) with their strikes.
And instead of your wording it would probably be easier/clearer to say, “when you make an unarmed strike…
But I wouldn’t be opposed to them adding a feature that focused more on being open handed, as you suggested
Edit: not sure if there was much change to it after the UA but if not Wholeness of Body is the only feature that can’t be used with unarmed strikes. Fleet Step you can BA unarmed strike or FoB and also SotW. Their Attack action is the only other outlier.
They pretty much have that with Open Hand Technique and Quivering Palm (at 17). But the thing is you can hold a weapon and even use weapons and still use those abilities. There is no benefit to Warrior of the Open Hand to actually be open handed.
When I read from this and interpreted is looking for something like this (maybe)
At level 11, when no weapon is equipped you gain advantage (x) number of attacks on your turn . You can use this feature based on your wisdom modifier. Once used, you can’t use again until it long rest.
which in my opinion would not be over powering and incentivizing the OH subclass.
Interesting idea. Or even along the lines of “ for one minute you have advantage on attacks” once per long rest. Or a damage bump or two options at once from Open Hand Technique.
I was contemplating if FoB getting advantages would be over powering. It will be 55-60% more hits, so that’s what’s having me on the fence. I was thinking to amend it to scale at level 15/16 to include FoB at that point.
While true, their FoB options do give them features for those unarmed strikes that others do not have, incentivizing there.
I was hoping that the OHT would have applied to all unarmed strikes and not just FoB, but guess they didn’t want to change too much. Or at least allow OH monks to choose two of the Unarmed Strike options (damage, grapple, shove) with their strikes.
And instead of your wording it would probably be easier/clearer to say, “when you make an unarmed strike…
But I wouldn’t be opposed to them adding a feature that focused more on being open handed, as you suggested
Edit: not sure if there was much change to it after the UA but if not Wholeness of Body is the only feature that can’t be used with unarmed strikes. Fleet Step you can BA unarmed strike or FoB and also SotW. Their Attack action is the only other outlier.
They pretty much have that with Open Hand Technique and Quivering Palm (at 17). But the thing is you can hold a weapon and even use weapons and still use those abilities. There is no benefit to Warrior of the Open Hand to actually be open handed.
When I read from this and interpreted is looking for something like this (maybe)
At level 11, when no weapon is equipped you gain advantage (x) number of attacks on your turn . You can use this feature based on your wisdom modifier. Once used, you can’t use again until it long rest.
which in my opinion would not be over powering and incentivizing the OH subclass.
Interesting idea. Or even along the lines of “ for one minute you have advantage on attacks” once per long rest. Or a damage bump or two options at once from Open Hand Technique.
I was contemplating if FoB getting advantages would be over powering. It will be 55-60% more hits, so that’s what’s having me on the fence. I was thinking to amend it to scale at level 15/16 to include FoB at that point.
With there being so many more ways to get advantage for most, if not all, classes I really don’t think of it as being overpowered. But I see your point.
The 2024 WoOH Monk is fine mechanically, but in my opinion it’s missing something.
There is zero incentive to actually have open hands. You can wield and use weapons, or not, it makes no difference.
There should be a feature that reads “when you aren’t wearing armor or a shield, or holding any weapons…”
It doesn’t have to be crazy powerful. Just a little something. What do you think? 🤔
I guess I don't understand how the incentive is to have limitations? In any sense the limitations are already mentioned in the base class. Most traditional martial arts train both with or without weapons. Unarmed doesn't only mean with your hand/fists. It also includes feet, knees, elbows and headbutts.
I'm not suggesting they add limitations. Just give a little something for being open-handed. Like (spit-balling an idea) +PB to your AC until the start of your next turn as a reaction to being hit, a number of times per day equal to your wisdom modifier - if you are not holding any weapons.
I don’t think of it as a limitation but an emphasis on open hands on the Warrior of the Open Hand. And as SeanJP said it doesn’t have to be powerful but something to set them apart from the other subclasses that fight unarmed.
But I get your point, if you happen to get a magic shortsword or quarterstaff or scimitar you don’t want to feel like you can’t use it because you are hyper focused on unarmed strikes.
Yeah, that is already kind of an issue for monks as it is. Unarmed strikes are a major part of their arsenal, especially after FoB gets 3 attacks. If they get a good magic weapon, it does not apply to their normal unarmed strikes, flurry of blows, or other special abilities that use unarmed strikes. Hopefully the new DM Guide will add more goodies for unarmed strikers. The new PHB sure did with the rules changes and feats.
I don’t think of it as a limitation but an emphasis on open hands on the Warrior of the Open Hand. And as SeanJP said it doesn’t have to be powerful but something to set them apart from the other subclasses that fight unarmed.
But I get your point, if you happen to get a magic shortsword or quarterstaff or scimitar you don’t want to feel like you can’t use it because you are hyper focused on unarmed strikes.
Yeah, that is already kind of an issue for monks as it is. Unarmed strikes are a major part of their arsenal, especially after FoB gets 3 attacks. If they get a good magic weapon, it does not apply to their normal unarmed strikes, flurry of blows, or other special abilities that use unarmed strikes. Hopefully the new DM Guide will add more goodies for unarmed strikers. The new PHB sure did with the rules changes and feats.
I think the idea of the warrior of the open hand is the martial art is tai chi, it’s a art that many players can learn and would help make the community more secure and accessible exercise that can easily be taught to others players. The larger role players need to play in the community. I think the monk players need to introduce this to the group through arm movements during combat in game. And help reduce shenanigans at the table by being honest with the bonus action.
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I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
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The 2024 WoOH Monk is fine mechanically, but in my opinion it’s missing something.
There is zero incentive to actually have open hands. You can wield and use weapons, or not, it makes no difference.
There should be a feature that reads “when you aren’t wearing armor or a shield, or holding any weapons…”
It doesn’t have to be crazy powerful. Just a little something. What do you think? 🤔
While true, their FoB options do give them features for those unarmed strikes that others do not have, incentivizing there.
I was hoping that the OHT would have applied to all unarmed strikes and not just FoB, but guess they didn’t want to change too much. Or at least allow OH monks to choose two of the Unarmed Strike options (damage, grapple, shove) with their strikes.
And instead of your wording it would probably be easier/clearer to say, “when you make an unarmed strike…
But I wouldn’t be opposed to them adding a feature that focused more on being open handed, as you suggested
Edit: not sure if there was much change to it after the UA but if not Wholeness of Body is the only feature that can’t be used with unarmed strikes. Fleet Step you can BA unarmed strike or FoB and also SotW. Their Attack action is the only other outlier.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
They pretty much have that with Open Hand Technique and Quivering Palm (at 17). But the thing is you can hold a weapon and even use weapons and still use those abilities. There is no benefit to Warrior of the Open Hand to actually be open handed.
I guess I don't understand how the incentive is to have limitations? In any sense the limitations are already mentioned in the base class. Most traditional martial arts train both with or without weapons. Unarmed doesn't only mean with your hand/fists. It also includes feet, knees, elbows and headbutts.
I don’t think of it as a limitation but an emphasis on open hands on the Warrior of the Open Hand. And as SeanJP said it doesn’t have to be powerful but something to set them apart from the other subclasses that fight unarmed.
But I get your point, if you happen to get a magic shortsword or quarterstaff or scimitar you don’t want to feel like you can’t use it because you are hyper focused on unarmed strikes.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
When I read from this and interpreted is looking for something like this (maybe)
At level 11, when no weapon is equipped you gain advantage (x) number of attacks on your turn . You can use this feature based on your wisdom modifier. Once used, you can’t use again until it long rest.
which in my opinion would not be over powering and incentivizing the OH subclass.
Interesting idea. Or even along the lines of “ for one minute you have advantage on attacks” once per long rest. Or a damage bump or two options at once from Open Hand Technique.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I was contemplating if FoB getting advantages would be over powering. It will be 55-60% more hits, so that’s what’s having me on the fence. I was thinking to amend it to scale at level 15/16 to include FoB at that point.
With there being so many more ways to get advantage for most, if not all, classes I really don’t think of it as being overpowered. But I see your point.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I'm not suggesting they add limitations. Just give a little something for being open-handed. Like (spit-balling an idea) +PB to your AC until the start of your next turn as a reaction to being hit, a number of times per day equal to your wisdom modifier - if you are not holding any weapons.
Yeah, that is already kind of an issue for monks as it is. Unarmed strikes are a major part of their arsenal, especially after FoB gets 3 attacks. If they get a good magic weapon, it does not apply to their normal unarmed strikes, flurry of blows, or other special abilities that use unarmed strikes. Hopefully the new DM Guide will add more goodies for unarmed strikers. The new PHB sure did with the rules changes and feats.
I think the idea of the warrior of the open hand is the martial art is tai chi, it’s a art that many players can learn and would help make the community more secure and accessible exercise that can easily be taught to others players. The larger role players need to play in the community. I think the monk players need to introduce this to the group through arm movements during combat in game. And help reduce shenanigans at the table by being honest with the bonus action.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.