Which subclass / build of monk would make the best "Mage Slayer"? What aspects would help a monk go against a government of magicians?
Either Way of the Open Hand or Way of the Shadow multiclassed into rogue. Open Hand would allow you to really bully mages on the field just by sticking to them and really knocking them around (literally). On the other hand, if you go Way of the Shadow and dip 3 levels into Assassin Rogue you could really ruin their day by just bamfing around the shadows and popping up behind them for easy peasy crits.
As a side not you might have better luck if you made a seperate thread for your question.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
So you are telling me that a giant monkey can beat the KING OF MONSTERS!? Do you want me to hate you?
I believe 3 levels of rogue is a poor combination with Monk. The Sneak Attack only synergies with your main attacks if you're using the correct weapon type.
Plus it's a personal opinion but I think the Auto-Crit on surprise isn't as useful as we'd often hope because it's bad-ass, but only happens once. It's not something that can be depended on.
Note: I will concede that Assassinate says: "In addition any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit"
So given how a Monk can attack 4 times in a round with a single Ki point, that means you are probably dealing 3-4 crits (depending on if one misses). It's very much an "Alpha Strike" which I will concede is just not my play style, so I'm biased.
Warlock Multiclass:
2nd leve dip gets the ability to see in magical darkness.
3rd level dip gets you Mirror Image and the Pact of your choice.
Now when you cast Darkness on yourself creating a bubble that only you can see out of: everyone has DisAdv to attack you while you have Adv to attack them, plus you have Evasion from monk so AoEs aren't a threat.
Plus if you make it high enough level you have invisibility at will in dim/darkness. I made this in a game and I rarely used the combo because I didn't think it was fair.
Yeah you could go Warlock but you already can cast darkness as a Way of the Shadow at 3 level so that is redundant, that being said I think Pact of the Blade along with Monk would be a pretty cool combo in terms of flavor :P. Also, I was thinking in line of around Monk 11/Rogue 3 that way Shadow Monk/Assassin backs into the shadows, hides and uses shadow step or Cloak of Shadows to get a surprise attack and get the auto crits from Assassin. I think WoS and Rogue synergize really well given on 2nd rogue level you can hide on a bonus action now so you can hide and then shadow step or vice versa, or use your ki to cast past without a trace and then hide. Also, next attack after shadow stem has advantage and with rogue, if you hit, you get an auto crit.
I will admit it isn't my playstyle either, but I was theory crafting a little because I enjoy it and his question was a perfect opportunity to play around :D.
Edit: Saw that Shadow Step is a bonus action so the hide+shadow step isn't as relevant.
I believe the autocrits only come in when the enemy is surprised not from the Adv gained from ShadowStep.
Suprises (p189, PHB) (https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/combat/order-of-combat#Surprise) "The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to b e stealthy, they automatically notice each other." and "If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn o f the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends."
Unless I'm misreading it RAW Surprise can only happen once in combat. You'd have to *leave* combat and restart it over and and over again. Also a pretty terrifying prospect! At that point you're basically a horror movie antagonist.
My reason for Warlock is because as a WoS Monk you can cast Darkness, but you gain no ability to see in the darkness. 2 Levels of Warlock lets you take "Devil's Sight" which allows you to see in normally in darkness both magical or non-magical up to 120ft.
The Alert feat could be useful as it say "Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result o f being hidden from you."
In theory this means if you and your opponent are both IN the darkness and neither of you have Devil's Sight, the Alert feat would cancel the bonus for attacking you while you are Blinded, but would not cancel the penalty to attack an enemy while Blinded.
Thought: Would two people fighiting blind be rolling normally? Because they would have Adv for attacking a Blinded enemy but be at DisAdv for being Blinded?...
I believe the autocrits only come in when the enemy is surprised not from the Adv gained from ShadowStep.
Yeah, just went back to the phb and I was mixing sneak attack in with assassinate feature, my bad. That being said sneak attack does synergize with the shadow step.
My reason for Warlock is because as a WoS Monk you can cast Darkness, but you gain no ability to see in the darkness. 2 Levels of Warlock lets you take "Devil's Sight" which allows you to see in normally in darkness both magical or non-magical up to 120ft.
Yeah I can give you that, but we could also assume that you could get a magic item to do something similar. That being said I do think Warlock works really well with WoS, but doesn't have the raw damage output of Monk/Rogue. Thinking about it WoS 15/Rogue 3/Warlock 2 could probably be a pretty leathal combo.
And the 2 people attacking in the dark is a hilarious thought haha.
Something about Sun Soul just works for me. It's probably not the best by any means but I enjoy the ranged attacks and its theme on top of the core Monk kit.
Something about Sun Soul just works for me. It's probably not the best by any means but I enjoy the ranged attacks and its theme on top of the core Monk kit.
Yeah the Sun Soul really speaks to me as well. Most other Monk orders don't, but this one just sounds fun to me.
I like monks (as I like all classes) and as DM I create a bunch of NPCs of every class, I don't play D&D as player since 3 years and that gives me the opportunity of taste classes and archetypes. Much of that NPCs have a low impact, some of them even don't appear 'cause the PCs don't go where he or she usually is, or they aren't interested on them. But the process of creating them is enough for me.
But I have a problem with Monks, maybe I found Monks subclasses so... anime/videogame (4Elements = Ryu/Ken from Street Fighter; Kensei = Many of Soul Calibur characters; Sun Soul = Gokuh/Vegeta...), but I don't really love any of the Monks subclasses. Maybe I'm so influenced by other RP game (where "Monks" are related to Mind magic) and Discworld (where "Monks" are related to Time alteration and history keepers)
Besides I have a player with a Open Hand Monk, and if I do a Monk NPC I want to show him other tradition
Thought: Would two people fighiting blind be rolling normally? Because they would have Adv for attacking a Blinded enemy but be at DisAdv for being Blinded?...
Yeah, this is a big point of contention a bunch of people have, but as per the designers and a RAW reading of the rules, everyone would be rolling normally- it feels unintuitive because a lot more whiffing should be happening, it's one of the places where advantage/disadvantage is distinctly about relative strength of position rather than absolute strength- the system doesn't care that the darkness would make you both miss, it only cares that neither of you are in a better position.
Hmm, I haven't heard of that one, what is the subclass about? is that book generally balanced?
The subclass is about healing, basically. It gains features that allow casting of healing spells by spending ki points, and a special protection against instant death.
As for the balance of the book, I've not found anything that sticks out as being clearly overly potent, but there are a few things (a prestige class and a magic item, so far) that are accidentally under-potent (and in both those cases, it appears to be the result of misunderstanding how resistance to damage from nonmagical weapons works - since the features of both are to treat a weapon as being a specific material, but granted after it is already treated as magic so it gains nothing from being treated as a specific material)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm partial to Way of Shadow for it's ninja flavor and abilities- shadow stepping is such a cool ability to have.
Shadow warlock's are fun. Plus there are may different ways to build them.
It is a shame that there is not a "fusion" path they combines aspects of Open Hand with Shadow.
I love the battlefield control you can have with a way of the shadow monk, but nothing quite beats the Bruce Lee feeling of Open hand.
So you are telling me that a giant monkey can beat the KING OF MONSTERS!? Do you want me to hate you?
Which subclass / build of monk would make the best "Mage Slayer"? What aspects would help a monk go against a government of magicians?
So you are telling me that a giant monkey can beat the KING OF MONSTERS!? Do you want me to hate you?
I disagree with you Seniram91.
I believe 3 levels of rogue is a poor combination with Monk. The Sneak Attack only synergies with your main attacks if you're using the correct weapon type.
Plus it's a personal opinion but I think the Auto-Crit on surprise isn't as useful as we'd often hope because it's bad-ass, but only happens once. It's not something that can be depended on.
Note: I will concede that Assassinate says: "In addition any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit"
So given how a Monk can attack 4 times in a round with a single Ki point, that means you are probably dealing 3-4 crits (depending on if one misses). It's very much an "Alpha Strike" which I will concede is just not my play style, so I'm biased.
Warlock Multiclass:
Now when you cast Darkness on yourself creating a bubble that only you can see out of: everyone has DisAdv to attack you while you have Adv to attack them, plus you have Evasion from monk so AoEs aren't a threat.
Plus if you make it high enough level you have invisibility at will in dim/darkness. I made this in a game and I rarely used the combo because I didn't think it was fair.
Yeah you could go Warlock but you already can cast darkness as a Way of the Shadow at 3 level so that is redundant, that being said I think Pact of the Blade along with Monk would be a pretty cool combo in terms of flavor :P. Also, I was thinking in line of around Monk 11/Rogue 3 that way Shadow Monk/Assassin backs into the shadows, hides and uses shadow step or Cloak of Shadows to get a surprise attack and get the auto crits from Assassin. I think WoS and Rogue synergize really well given on 2nd rogue level you can hide on a bonus action now so you can hide and then shadow step or vice versa, or use your ki to cast past without a trace and then hide. Also, next attack after shadow stem has advantage and with rogue, if you hit, you get an auto crit.
I will admit it isn't my playstyle either, but I was theory crafting a little because I enjoy it and his question was a perfect opportunity to play around :D.
Edit: Saw that Shadow Step is a bonus action so the hide+shadow step isn't as relevant.
So you are telling me that a giant monkey can beat the KING OF MONSTERS!? Do you want me to hate you?
I'm enjoying this theorycraft too.
I believe the autocrits only come in when the enemy is surprised not from the Adv gained from ShadowStep.
Suprises (p189, PHB) (https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/combat/order-of-combat#Surprise)
"The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to b e stealthy, they automatically notice each other." and "If you’re surprised, you can’t move or take an action on your first turn o f the combat, and you can’t take a reaction until that turn ends."
The Combat Step by Step (https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/combat/order-of-combat) / (p189, PHB)
Unless I'm misreading it RAW Surprise can only happen once in combat. You'd have to *leave* combat and restart it over and and over again. Also a pretty terrifying prospect! At that point you're basically a horror movie antagonist.
My reason for Warlock is because as a WoS Monk you can cast Darkness, but you gain no ability to see in the darkness. 2 Levels of Warlock lets you take "Devil's Sight" which allows you to see in normally in darkness both magical or non-magical up to 120ft.
The Alert feat could be useful as it say "Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result o f being hidden from you."
In theory this means if you and your opponent are both IN the darkness and neither of you have Devil's Sight, the Alert feat would cancel the bonus for attacking you while you are Blinded, but would not cancel the penalty to attack an enemy while Blinded.
Thought: Would two people fighiting blind be rolling normally? Because they would have Adv for attacking a Blinded enemy but be at DisAdv for being Blinded?...
So you are telling me that a giant monkey can beat the KING OF MONSTERS!? Do you want me to hate you?
Why isn't Warborn a subclass up there? It's hard to find, but it is by far the best if you're going a melee route. And no, I do not mean the race.
Something about Sun Soul just works for me. It's probably not the best by any means but I enjoy the ranged attacks and its theme on top of the core Monk kit.
Site Rules & Guidelines - Please feel free to message a moderator if you have any concerns.
My homebrew: [Subclasses] [Races] [Feats] [Discussion Thread]
Source? Was that a UA I missed?
I like monks (as I like all classes) and as DM I create a bunch of NPCs of every class, I don't play D&D as player since 3 years and that gives me the opportunity of taste classes and archetypes. Much of that NPCs have a low impact, some of them even don't appear 'cause the PCs don't go where he or she usually is, or they aren't interested on them. But the process of creating them is enough for me.
But I have a problem with Monks, maybe I found Monks subclasses so... anime/videogame (4Elements = Ryu/Ken from Street Fighter; Kensei = Many of Soul Calibur characters; Sun Soul = Gokuh/Vegeta...), but I don't really love any of the Monks subclasses. Maybe I'm so influenced by other RP game (where "Monks" are related to Mind magic) and Discworld (where "Monks" are related to Time alteration and history keepers)
Besides I have a player with a Open Hand Monk, and if I do a Monk NPC I want to show him other tradition
D&D Beyond Mobile Alpha Tester
Would anyone change their vote to Drunken master if i could edit the poll? I'm curious but I'll wait before posting a new one till this gets buried.
My favorite is actually from a 3rd party book; the Way of Mercy in the Scarred Lands Player's Guide.