1. How exactly does it work now?
2. On a lore level, the fact that it changed from a class skill to a spell, what does it imply?
3. Being a spell, can it be combined in the same turn with the Warlock's Elderitch Smite?
the new "god" of the melee classes will be a valor bard with a 1 lvl dip of Warlock ..... attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ), nick attack, dw attack => 7 attacks with no additional abilitys, with CME @9th lvl thats just a tiny amount of: 3x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6 with a 60% hit chance thats just a measly 200dpR for 10 min with just 1 spell slot .....
but of course the paladin was way to strong and according to a lot of people still is .......
and if you now go into the field of optimization ( bard ( valor ) 17 / warlock 1 / sorcerer 2 ) you will nova like no tomorrow ^^
attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ), nick attack, quicken scorching Ray = 2x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6 & 9x 2d6 + 12d6 with a 60% hit chance thats 400+ dpR Nova dmg or attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ), nick attack, quicken chromatic orb 2x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6 & 10d8 + 12d6 x 1-8 targets ( max 8, lets say 3 avg ) with 60% hit thats 330 avg, with 8 targets 600 dmg
and if you say i don't need to cast lvl 9 spells you could go : ( 15 bard / 2 ftr / 2 sorcerer / 1 warlock ) attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ), nick attack, quicken scorching Ray, action surge => attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ) = 20 attacks = 3x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 8x 1d10 + 12d6 & 9x 2d6 + 12d6 with a 60% hit chance thats 550+ dpR Nova dmg
while a paladin with 2h - sword : 2x 2d6 + 5 + 1d8 + 1d4 ( divine favor ) + 6 ( GWM ) 6d8 ( highest smite ) + 12 d8 * 0,05 ( crit smite ) = 53 dpR if you go and say i won't smite but instead of a greatsword i will use a halberd ( Polearm mastery ) 2x 1d10 + 5 + 1d8 + 1d4 + 6 & 1d4 + 5 + 1d8 + 1d4 + 6 = 36 dpR
old paladin smitihing with 3x 4th lvl about 10-15% above the new paladin
so Paladin as a Melee class does 25% of the dmg output of a caster class, and he gets nothing that can even begin to close that gap
PS: sorry if that sound a bit aggressive wasn't meant that way, but i don't understand the logic behind all of this
Re: valor bard with a 1 lvl dip of Warlock... What is "12d6" damage attributed to in this DPR calc: "3x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6"?
I ask because CME is 2d8 + 1d8 for each spell slot level above 4. When cast at 9th level, wouldn't the damage per hit be 7d8? Also, please help me understand where the additional "+5" is attributed to.
BTW - I love this because I am looking to build a valor bard for my next character. Thanks!
Re: valor bard with a 1 lvl dip of Warlock... What is "12d6" damage attributed to in this DPR calc: "3x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6"?
I ask because CME is 2d8 + 1d8 for each spell slot level above 4. When cast at 9th level, wouldn't the damage per hit be 7d8? Also, please help me understand where the additional "+5" is attributed to.
BTW - I love this because I am looking to build a valor bard for my next character. Thanks!
this calculation was before the CME was nerfed, but it is still way to powerful now it would be more like 7d8 you are right, the +5 is for the attribut used in the attack ( dex, str, chr e.g. )
Forgot to ask, what is the additional "+12d6" damage for?
Attack, nick attack, dw attack = 3x 1d6 damage
Extra attack -> eldritch blast = 4x 1d10 damage
Conjure Minor Elementals = 12d6 + 5 [7d8+5] damage
? = +12d6 damage
attack , nick attack, dw attack = 3x 1d6 extra attack -> eldritch blast = 4x 1d10 CME ( "nerfed" still way too powerful imho ) = +7d8
dps = 3x (1d6 +5 ( dex, str, chr bonus ) + magical Weapon + 7d8) + 4x (1d10 + 7d8 ( you won't get the +5 here unless you take 2 lvls of Warlock)) ~ 3x 42 + 4x 37 = 274 ( adjusted for to hit ) = 164 dpR that can be even increased have to check my notes from over a year back :)
if you want to go even more extreme ( 17 bard, 2 sorcerer, 1 warlock ) thats: attack, nick attack, no dw instead quicken scorching ray ( 8th lvl ) extra attack -> EBlast
1. How exactly does it work now? 2. On a lore level, the fact that it changed from a class skill to a spell, what does it imply? 3. Being a spell, can it be combined in the same turn with the Warlock's Elderitch Smite?1. It mostly works the same except it now expends a bonus action and counts as being a spell.
2. Difficult to know at this point.
3. Yes, Eldritch Smite is not a spell and so it does not conflict on the one spell cast with a spell slot rule.
the new "god" of the melee classes will be a valor bard with a 1 lvl dip of Warlock .....
attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ), nick attack, dw attack => 7 attacks with no additional abilitys, with CME @9th lvl thats just a tiny amount of:
3x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6 with a 60% hit chance thats just a measly 200dpR for 10 min with just 1 spell slot .....
but of course the paladin was way to strong and according to a lot of people still is .......
and if you now go into the field of optimization ( bard ( valor ) 17 / warlock 1 / sorcerer 2 ) you will nova like no tomorrow ^^
attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ), nick attack, quicken scorching Ray
= 2x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6 & 9x 2d6 + 12d6 with a 60% hit chance thats 400+ dpR Nova dmg
or attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ), nick attack, quicken chromatic orb
2x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6 & 10d8 + 12d6 x 1-8 targets ( max 8, lets say 3 avg ) with 60% hit thats 330 avg, with 8 targets 600 dmg
and if you say i don't need to cast lvl 9 spells you could go : ( 15 bard / 2 ftr / 2 sorcerer / 1 warlock )
attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ), nick attack, quicken scorching Ray,
action surge => attack, ( extra attack -> eldritch blast ) = 20 attacks
= 3x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 8x 1d10 + 12d6 & 9x 2d6 + 12d6 with a 60% hit chance thats 550+ dpR Nova dmg
while a paladin with 2h - sword :
2x 2d6 + 5 + 1d8 + 1d4 ( divine favor ) + 6 ( GWM ) 6d8 ( highest smite ) + 12 d8 * 0,05 ( crit smite ) = 53 dpR
if you go and say i won't smite but instead of a greatsword i will use a halberd ( Polearm mastery )
2x 1d10 + 5 + 1d8 + 1d4 + 6 & 1d4 + 5 + 1d8 + 1d4 + 6 = 36 dpR
old paladin smitihing with 3x 4th lvl about 10-15% above the new paladin
so Paladin as a Melee class does 25% of the dmg output of a caster class, and he gets nothing that can even begin to close that gap
PS: sorry if that sound a bit aggressive wasn't meant that way, but i don't understand the logic behind all of this
Re: valor bard with a 1 lvl dip of Warlock...
What is "12d6" damage attributed to in this DPR calc: "3x 1d6 + 12d6 + 5 & 4x 1d10 + 12d6"?
I ask because CME is 2d8 + 1d8 for each spell slot level above 4. When cast at 9th level, wouldn't the damage per hit be 7d8? Also, please help me understand where the additional "+5" is attributed to.
BTW - I love this because I am looking to build a valor bard for my next character. Thanks!
this calculation was before the CME was nerfed, but it is still way to powerful now it would be more like 7d8 you are right, the +5 is for the attribut used in the attack ( dex, str, chr e.g. )
Thank you for the quick reply!
Forgot to ask, what is the additional "+12d6" damage for?
12d6 + 5[7d8+5] damageattack , nick attack, dw attack = 3x 1d6
extra attack -> eldritch blast = 4x 1d10
CME ( "nerfed" still way too powerful imho ) = +7d8
dps = 3x (1d6 +5 ( dex, str, chr bonus ) + magical Weapon + 7d8) + 4x (1d10 + 7d8 ( you won't get the +5 here unless you take 2 lvls of Warlock))
~ 3x 42 + 4x 37 = 274 ( adjusted for to hit ) = 164 dpR that can be even increased have to check my notes from over a year back :)
if you want to go even more extreme ( 17 bard, 2 sorcerer, 1 warlock ) thats:
attack, nick attack,
no dw instead quicken scorching ray ( 8th lvl )
extra attack -> EBlast
2x (1d6 +5 + 2 +7d8) + 4x (1d10 + 7d8 ) + 9x ( 2d6 + 7d8 ) = 578 => 350 dpR ( 1/day, 1/day => 320 dpR )
Got it, I wasn’t applying the CME to each EBlast. Thank you!