I'm having a rough time wrapping my head around the new Genie Paladin. Yes the features are bonkers (looking at you, Dao) but the whole flavor and theme is confused.
Yes, I know they have tenets. But lets be honest the tenets are so vague and non-commital what do you actually stand for? Why do you actually exist? What are you actually swearing an Oath to? The best I can come up with is: Protect and respect the elemental planes, Protect the realm of the Genie, etc. But by that respect it sounds more like an Elemental Druid. This could have easily been (and should have been IMO) the 5.5 Genie Warlock or a Dragon Paladin. Both fit this much better. At this point the Paladin is just digging into the Warlock's lunch.
The other thing that is driving me nuts is that it really pushes for a Dex build. Which is great. Love that we're getting options. But mechanically it gets a little clunky and/or doesn't fit the visual theme. I'm visualizing (and I know I'm not alone) a whole Arabian Knights theme. I think Arabian Knight, I think big ol' Falchion. Which doesn't work since Str. is now a dump stat. With this you're encouraged to use a rapier and shield for max potential damage.
That's a swashbuckler. Not a Paladin.
And dual wielding, which fits a lot better thematically, gets in the way of your smites.
The whole thing just feels...off. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just not looking at this the right way. Thoughts?
You use the scimitar you can dual wield and get an extra attack for free due to the nick weapon mastery. The flavor of a whirling dervish style character is throughout the class. I will agree that the Paladin feels forced but for a class with magic and empowered melee attacks it is the chasse that we have. Having played in AlQuadim I can see the character. Someone who has made deals with the jinn, offered their allegiance for power, who see there power and majesty and seek to emulate it.
While I want a 24 gene patron this is not it, that is closer to the Sha'ir who bind jinn to their service and by using them are able to gain spells not a dex based unarmored dual wielder.
I would have gone with either a barbarian or a monk as the base class for this type of character, similar to the storm herald.
You use the scimitar you can dual wield and get an extra attack for free due to the nick weapon mastery. The flavor of a whirling dervish style character is throughout the class. I will agree that the Paladin feels forced but for a class with magic and empowered melee attacks it is the chasse that we have. Having played in AlQuadim I can see the character. Someone who has made deals with the jinn, offered their allegiance for power, who see there power and majesty and seek to emulate it.
While I want a 24 gene patron this is not it, that is closer to the Sha'ir who bind jinn to their service and by using them are able to gain spells not a dex based unarmored dual wielder.
I would have gone with either a barbarian or a monk as the base class for this type of character, similar to the storm herald.
You know I got so wrapped up in squeezing every attack out of dual wielder I forgot about Nick!
I see what you're saying about offering their allegiance for power (still sounds like a warlock) but you're drawing from all planes and all Jinn. Doesn't scream Oath or Allegiance to me.
Barbarian would have been awesome and definitely fits the theme WoTC was going for! Wondering nomads with a spiritual connection to the planes that allow them to draw on the fundamental elements.
Thanks for your thoughts, feel a little better about it even though I still want my big ol sword 😅
I'm having a rough time wrapping my head around the new Genie Paladin. Yes the features are bonkers (looking at you, Dao) but the whole flavor and theme is confused.
Yes, I know they have tenets. But lets be honest the tenets are so vague and non-commital what do you actually stand for? Why do you actually exist? What are you actually swearing an Oath to? The best I can come up with is: Protect and respect the elemental planes, Protect the realm of the Genie, etc. But by that respect it sounds more like an Elemental Druid. This could have easily been (and should have been IMO) the 5.5 Genie Warlock or a Dragon Paladin. Both fit this much better. At this point the Paladin is just digging into the Warlock's lunch.
The other thing that is driving me nuts is that it really pushes for a Dex build. Which is great. Love that we're getting options. But mechanically it gets a little clunky and/or doesn't fit the visual theme. I'm visualizing (and I know I'm not alone) a whole Arabian Knights theme. I think Arabian Knight, I think big ol' Falchion. Which doesn't work since Str. is now a dump stat. With this you're encouraged to use a rapier and shield for max potential damage.
That's a swashbuckler. Not a Paladin.
And dual wielding, which fits a lot better thematically, gets in the way of your smites.
The whole thing just feels...off. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just not looking at this the right way. Thoughts?
Not every Paladin has to smite all of the time. Dual-wielding Pallys are generally better off stacking damage onto each of their attacks with Divine Favor, Spirit Shroud, and Divine Strikes, then hitting as many times as they can. Long term, it is a more efficient use of your spell slots for a dual-wielder (though it doesn't have that nova factor like a Greatsword+Divine Smite critical hit).
There's a LOT of Forgotten Realms history regarding Genie politics in Calimshan that explains how Noble Genies are tied to it in that setting.
But the short, setting-neutral version is this:
Some genies actually do want to do well by mortals & others, despite what the Monster Manual(in universe) written by humans says, and inspire Paladins to greater purposes via an oath of emulating said genies' more honorable personality traits.
A Noble Genie Paladin does not, in fact borrow power from a Genie. Rather, their conviction to emulate the best of these Elementals causes them to manifest elemental power.
No deal is made. No power tapping occurs.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
There's a LOT of Forgotten Realms history regarding Genie politics in Calimshan that explains how Noble Genies are tied to it in that setting.
But the short, setting-neutral version is this:
Some genies actually do want to do well by mortals & others, despite what the Monster Manual(in universe) written by humans says, and inspire Paladins to greater purposes via an oath of emulating said genies' more honorable personality traits.
A Noble Genie Paladin does not, in fact borrow power from a Genie. Rather, their conviction to emulate the best of these Elementals causes them to manifest elemental power.
No deal is made. No power tapping occurs.
I'm not looking to pick a fight, but can you link a reference to this? All I'm finding is old Noble Genie classifications and it's not really adding up. Even if one genie is 'noble', they don't have dominion over other planes. Or is this a character backstory for your PC?
There's a LOT of Forgotten Realms history regarding Genie politics in Calimshan that explains how Noble Genies are tied to it in that setting.
But the short, setting-neutral version is this:
Some genies actually do want to do well by mortals & others, despite what the Monster Manual(in universe) written by humans says, and inspire Paladins to greater purposes via an oath of emulating said genies' more honorable personality traits.
A Noble Genie Paladin does not, in fact borrow power from a Genie. Rather, their conviction to emulate the best of these Elementals causes them to manifest elemental power.
No deal is made. No power tapping occurs.
I'm not looking to pick a fight, but can you link a reference to this? All I'm finding is old Noble Genie classifications and it's not really adding up. Even if one genie is 'noble', they don't have dominion over other planes. Or is this a character backstory for your PC?
I won't like to channels that violate ToS. There's plenty of novels that exist.
But you're wrong from a fundamental level about how Paladins work since 2014.
No external entity is required. Just an oath.
& Noble Genies are part of the lore of DND. They don't have to be nobles(Wealthy) to be Noble(Honorable, respetcable kind), Genies.
Some Genies inspire some Paladins to take an oath emulating their nobility(Personality) not nobility(social & financial).
English is a weird language.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Someone who has made deals with the jinn, offered their allegiance for power, who see there power and majesty and seek to emulate it.
That sounds like a Warlock, not a Paladin.
With the new 'Oath' system Paladins do sound more and more like Warlocks
The oath system has been in place since 2014. It’s hardly new.
I'm aware. I meant the Tenents are getting so vague it's almost nonsensical and leaning more into Warlock territory
You have been informed repeatedly that Paladins do not require external power, & are still going with this because Character gave you a bad description.
If you don't own the book, let alone the PBH which explain how Paladins are allowed to be external entity-less & are going off external information sources, you might want to disclose that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I'm having a rough time wrapping my head around the new Genie Paladin. Yes the features are bonkers (looking at you, Dao) but the whole flavor and theme is confused.
Yes, I know they have tenets. But lets be honest the tenets are so vague and non-commital what do you actually stand for? Why do you actually exist? What are you actually swearing an Oath to?
The best I can come up with is: Protect and respect the elemental planes, Protect the realm of the Genie, etc. But by that respect it sounds more like an Elemental Druid.
This could have easily been (and should have been IMO) the 5.5 Genie Warlock or a Dragon Paladin. Both fit this much better. At this point the Paladin is just digging into the Warlock's lunch.
The other thing that is driving me nuts is that it really pushes for a Dex build. Which is great. Love that we're getting options. But mechanically it gets a little clunky and/or doesn't fit the visual theme.
I'm visualizing (and I know I'm not alone) a whole Arabian Knights theme. I think Arabian Knight, I think big ol' Falchion.
Which doesn't work since Str. is now a dump stat. With this you're encouraged to use a rapier and shield for max potential damage.
That's a swashbuckler. Not a Paladin.
And dual wielding, which fits a lot better thematically, gets in the way of your smites.
The whole thing just feels...off. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just not looking at this the right way.
Thoughts?
You use the scimitar you can dual wield and get an extra attack for free due to the nick weapon mastery. The flavor of a whirling dervish style character is throughout the class. I will agree that the Paladin feels forced but for a class with magic and empowered melee attacks it is the chasse that we have. Having played in AlQuadim I can see the character. Someone who has made deals with the jinn, offered their allegiance for power, who see there power and majesty and seek to emulate it.
While I want a 24 gene patron this is not it, that is closer to the Sha'ir who bind jinn to their service and by using them are able to gain spells not a dex based unarmored dual wielder.
I would have gone with either a barbarian or a monk as the base class for this type of character, similar to the storm herald.
You know I got so wrapped up in squeezing every attack out of dual wielder I forgot about Nick!
I see what you're saying about offering their allegiance for power (still sounds like a warlock) but you're drawing from all planes and all Jinn. Doesn't scream Oath or Allegiance to me.
Barbarian would have been awesome and definitely fits the theme WoTC was going for! Wondering nomads with a spiritual connection to the planes that allow them to draw on the fundamental elements.
Thanks for your thoughts, feel a little better about it even though I still want my big ol sword 😅
Not every Paladin has to smite all of the time. Dual-wielding Pallys are generally better off stacking damage onto each of their attacks with Divine Favor, Spirit Shroud, and Divine Strikes, then hitting as many times as they can. Long term, it is a more efficient use of your spell slots for a dual-wielder (though it doesn't have that nova factor like a Greatsword+Divine Smite critical hit).
That sounds like a Warlock, not a Paladin.
With the new 'Oath' system Paladins do sound more and more like Warlocks
There's a LOT of Forgotten Realms history regarding Genie politics in Calimshan that explains how Noble Genies are tied to it in that setting.
But the short, setting-neutral version is this:
Some genies actually do want to do well by mortals & others, despite what the Monster Manual(in universe) written by humans says, and inspire Paladins to greater purposes via an oath of emulating said genies' more honorable personality traits.
A Noble Genie Paladin does not, in fact borrow power from a Genie. Rather, their conviction to emulate the best of these Elementals causes them to manifest elemental power.
No deal is made. No power tapping occurs.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I'm not looking to pick a fight, but can you link a reference to this? All I'm finding is old Noble Genie classifications and it's not really adding up. Even if one genie is 'noble', they don't have dominion over other planes. Or is this a character backstory for your PC?
The oath system has been in place since 2014. It’s hardly new.
I won't like to channels that violate ToS. There's plenty of novels that exist.
But you're wrong from a fundamental level about how Paladins work since 2014.
No external entity is required. Just an oath.
& Noble Genies are part of the lore of DND. They don't have to be nobles(Wealthy) to be Noble(Honorable, respetcable kind), Genies.
Some Genies inspire some Paladins to take an oath emulating their nobility(Personality) not nobility(social & financial).
English is a weird language.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I'm aware. I meant the Tenents are getting so vague it's almost nonsensical and leaning more into Warlock territory
You have been informed repeatedly that Paladins do not require external power, & are still going with this because Character gave you a bad description.
If you don't own the book, let alone the PBH which explain how Paladins are allowed to be external entity-less & are going off external information sources, you might want to disclose that.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Oh, that I can agree with. The tenets here are quite vague.