How screwy is it to have a paladin that never really gets an opportunity to use the find steed ability for mounted combat, instead using the spell to summon a steed as an animal companion which fights along side the group? There are some decent mounts (greater and regular) that are available. I know their survivability is pretty poor, but adding an extra ally in combat can be huge. They also bring great out of combat utility like tracking through scent, basically a buffed up, non-warlock familiar.
Also, can a small character summon a large steed or a medium character summon a medium mount? Have a halfling with a moose or an elf walking in a city with a trusty mastiff.
I am sure there are a few older threads about this, but I can never seem to find them using the search.
-Cheers mates
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
For some reason when I read your post title I instantly thought of a ranger using his animal companion as a mount and wondered if he also had the feat mounted combatant how effective that could/would be? (guess it would have to be gnomes or halflings as the animal companion has to be medium)
I feel like the Find Steed spell is an attempt to hold onto that old knight in armor on a mount from Arthurian legend. These paladins are not the old school paladins from earlier editions. If a mount is a separate entity that molds to your needs/wants, then it could be anything that fits in the scope of the type of creature. If they wanted it to be used simply for the feel of a knight in mounted combat, the spell should just create a mount to increase land speed and only exist if the character is using it as a mount. Maybe a spell with a 24 hour duration that allows you to summon a spirit mount for a very defined purpose, to be mounted. When the character dismounts, the steed dissipates into a pocket dimension until called on again to act as a mount.
As is, you are summoning a spirit companion of any acceptable sort, basically 1/2 CR, medium or large beast. I wish they would have included this as a ranger spell, because it is in line with the freaking ranger's classic vibe. I have always had issues with the way rangers have been designed in D&D since the old days when they were basically race specific bounty hunters. I think if they had made hunter's mark a ranger ability and added the 'find steed' spell to their capabilities, rangers might be more appetizing. Favored enemy has always sat wrong with me as a class feature. But, this is a query about Paladins and mounts, HAZZAH!
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I haven't run it past my DM yet, other than when i was looking ahead at my spells and said it would be funny to have my tortle riding a mastiff, but due to the steed being "a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type" i see no issue with it being a very large or a very small mount to fit the paladins size. as long as you use the same stats block, unless DM decides to adjust it, does it matter if your mount is a cat like battle cat from he-man?
As is, you are summoning a spirit companion of any acceptable sort, basically 1/2 CR, medium or large beast. I wish they would have included this as a ranger spell, because it is in line with the freaking ranger's classic vibe. I have always had issues with the way rangers have been designed in D&D since the old days when they were basically race specific bounty hunters. I think if they had made hunter's mark a ranger ability and added the 'find steed' spell to their capabilities, rangers might be more appetizing. Favored enemy has always sat wrong with me as a class feature. But, this is a query about Paladins and mounts, HAZZAH!
I am currently doing this in a campaign I just started recently. My Leonin Paladin rides a Pegasus that was reskinned as a Flying Giant Boar. When not mounted he is treated as an animal companion in combat. It is fun and not really game breaking.
I have a giant wolverine as my steed which pretty much never gets used as a mount to be honest. It burrows for camping and serves as a great fluffy bed ,as well as a walking companion. When combat breaks out , having a large wolverine sounds cool, but ends up being a two or three hit punching bag that I get to re-summon as my evening ritual. Still an amazing perk to add something REALLY useful to our party. I also do not over-manage/abuse the privileged of my GM allowing a mount to be useful versus a combat boost spell only. Mounts can add a lot of creative variety for problem solving during an adventure. If we ever get to a level where I have access to find greater steed, I plan on using the same template and adding wings. So a large, flying wolverine will be the mount.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
That’s awesome that you chose a wolverine. It was the same at the beginning for me as well. I would say now that I have greater steed I’m opposite. I use my flying boar more as a mount, but it’s usually for scouting or special mobility/access or aerial combat. I feel like you know if your abusing or not and it’s easy to keep it honest with this altered mechanic
Yep, it is pretty easy to keep from abusing it. On another note, did you give your boar wings or something like running on hooves of lightning? I decided to take the road of Asian dragons and go wingless. I also dig on Appa from Avatar, and planning on riding Mr. Fluffy the wolverine like that, just a floating fluff-ball of rage bounding through the clouds. It is awesome that the spell summons a spirit which takes the shape of...whatever the GM allows.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Man I wish I had that idea. I did wings because the visual just cracked me up. Lion King meets Castlevania and Dragonball Z. I also did wings because I basically just reskinned the Pegasus to make it easy to track for movement speed and it’s basic attack. Only change is he attacks with tusks instead of hooves for same amount of damage. Im really grateful for DMs who are not stingy on this spell.
+1 on the flying boar, it's always something that your GM will remember and that will pull a chuckle from your game partners! I had given mine wings, mostly because of a series of inside jokes with a friend (who comes from the Ardennes region of Belgium, which has a boar as its symbol, and we joked about how it should be a national superhero with dragon wings).
... what kind of wings did you go for, bat-like, bird-like, or something more fantastical?
No kidding another flying boar?! Great minds! And thank you! Also welcome to DnD Beyond!
So far its my favorite character I have made to date with this being a keystone part of the reason. Since I was reskining the pegasus, the wings looked more like white bird wings which flowed well to go with the devotion paladin theme. For future games I might reskin the wings to fit the Oath. My Paladin is Oath of Devotion, but i would probably do:
Dragon/Reptilian wings for Conquest Bat/Raven wings for Vengeance Butterfly/Hummingbird wings for Ancients Falcon/Eagle wings for Crown Peacock/Rooster wings for Glory Phoenix/Crane wings for Redemption
I play a conquest paladin and Mr. Fluffy is a flying wolverine that glides through the air like Falcor from The Neverending Story. Wings are cool and fashionable, but Falcor and Appa are still my favorite giant flyers. HAHA :-P
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Thanks, and yes, it's cool to see that there's a flying boar mafia out there! Good call on the white feathered wings, it takes off a bit of the "brutal" look of the boar so that it's more paladin-like. Meanwhile, my paladin has somehow tamed a malevolent beast as a companion, on one hand, it looks cool, but on the other hands, it costs him some credibility as a lawful good character.
Also, can a small character summon a large steed or a medium character summon a medium mount? Have a halfling with a moose or an elf walking in a city with a trusty mastiff.
A small character can summon a large mount. A medium character could summon a medium mount, but could not ride it. Rules for a mount say it must be at least one size category larger than the creature. So small can ride large, since its at least one larger, but medium can not ride medium.
I would think RAW, it would be fine. If you want to spend a level 2 slot on something that can’t be used for much, besides lots of flavor, seems like it would be ok.
Medium beasts (CR 1/2 same as warhorse) that would be occupying a 5x5 space in a dungeon instead of having to wait outside would be: Giant Wasp, Black Bear, or Ape. I would much rather buy a simple riding horse if need be, but have my paladin be able to sit at the bar with his fezz wearing ape to really intimidate the room. Also, apes get a ranged attack
"Barkeep, get BoBo a mug of your best frothy brew" said the half plate adorned paladin of conquest.
Medium beasts (CR 1/2 same as warhorse) that would be occupying a 5x5 space in a dungeon instead of having to wait outside would be: Giant Wasp, Black Bear, or Ape. I would much rather buy a simple riding horse if need be, but have my paladin be able to sit at the bar with his fezz wearing ape to really intimidate the room. Also, apes get a ranged attack
"Barkeep, get BoBo a mug of your best frothy brew" said the half plate adorned paladin of conquest.
This is truly amazing. Also Ape covers a handful of flavor options for animals, Chimp, Gorilla, Orangutan, Bonobo. The only reason I could possibly think of a DM to not let me go this far with it is if we have someone with the Find Familiar spell that uses it A LOT and wouldn't want toe to be stepped on. Other than I think it would be more than ok.
Medium beasts (CR 1/2 same as warhorse) that would be occupying a 5x5 space in a dungeon instead of having to wait outside would be: Giant Wasp, Black Bear, or Ape. I would much rather buy a simple riding horse if need be, but have my paladin be able to sit at the bar with his fezz wearing ape to really intimidate the room. Also, apes get a ranged attack
"Barkeep, get BoBo a mug of your best frothy brew" said the half plate adorned paladin of conquest.
This is truly amazing. Also Ape covers a handful of flavor options for animals, Chimp, Gorilla, Orangutan, Bonobo. The only reason I could possibly think of a DM to not let me go this far with it is if we have someone with the Find Familiar spell that uses it A LOT and wouldn't want toe to be stepped on. Other than I think it would be more than ok.
That shouldn’t matter. You have as much right to your spell, and a paladin’s mount is just as iconic as a wizard’s familiar. Tell that caster not to step on your toe.
That shouldn’t matter. You have as much right to your spell, and a paladin’s mount is just as iconic as a wizard’s familiar. Tell that caster not to step on your toe. That shouldn’t matter. You have as much right to your spell, and a paladin’s mount is just as iconic as a wizard’s familiar. Tell that caster not to step on your toe.
I personally don't think it should matter either. But, we are essentially talking about using the find steed spell for a specific function, which is the original design purpose of the find familiar spell. I said it earlier that out of combat I am able to use my mount to scout ahead and track (on a good roll). I don't think the Ape example doesn't do that, but this whole thread we have discussed multiple uses of find steed and how it is not game breaking, but it could step on someones toes (even if I think it is not a big deal, and I'm sure most would agree)
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How screwy is it to have a paladin that never really gets an opportunity to use the find steed ability for mounted combat, instead using the spell to summon a steed as an animal companion which fights along side the group? There are some decent mounts (greater and regular) that are available. I know their survivability is pretty poor, but adding an extra ally in combat can be huge. They also bring great out of combat utility like tracking through scent, basically a buffed up, non-warlock familiar.
Also, can a small character summon a large steed or a medium character summon a medium mount? Have a halfling with a moose or an elf walking in a city with a trusty mastiff.
I am sure there are a few older threads about this, but I can never seem to find them using the search.
-Cheers mates
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
For some reason when I read your post title I instantly thought of a ranger using his animal companion as a mount and wondered if he also had the feat mounted combatant how effective that could/would be? (guess it would have to be gnomes or halflings as the animal companion has to be medium)
I feel like the Find Steed spell is an attempt to hold onto that old knight in armor on a mount from Arthurian legend. These paladins are not the old school paladins from earlier editions. If a mount is a separate entity that molds to your needs/wants, then it could be anything that fits in the scope of the type of creature. If they wanted it to be used simply for the feel of a knight in mounted combat, the spell should just create a mount to increase land speed and only exist if the character is using it as a mount. Maybe a spell with a 24 hour duration that allows you to summon a spirit mount for a very defined purpose, to be mounted. When the character dismounts, the steed dissipates into a pocket dimension until called on again to act as a mount.
As is, you are summoning a spirit companion of any acceptable sort, basically 1/2 CR, medium or large beast. I wish they would have included this as a ranger spell, because it is in line with the freaking ranger's classic vibe. I have always had issues with the way rangers have been designed in D&D since the old days when they were basically race specific bounty hunters. I think if they had made hunter's mark a ranger ability and added the 'find steed' spell to their capabilities, rangers might be more appetizing. Favored enemy has always sat wrong with me as a class feature. But, this is a query about Paladins and mounts, HAZZAH!
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I haven't run it past my DM yet, other than when i was looking ahead at my spells and said it would be funny to have my tortle riding a mastiff, but due to the steed being "a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type" i see no issue with it being a very large or a very small mount to fit the paladins size. as long as you use the same stats block, unless DM decides to adjust it, does it matter if your mount is a cat like battle cat from he-man?
I am currently doing this in a campaign I just started recently. My Leonin Paladin rides a Pegasus that was reskinned as a Flying Giant Boar. When not mounted he is treated as an animal companion in combat. It is fun and not really game breaking.
I have a giant wolverine as my steed which pretty much never gets used as a mount to be honest. It burrows for camping and serves as a great fluffy bed ,as well as a walking companion. When combat breaks out , having a large wolverine sounds cool, but ends up being a two or three hit punching bag that I get to re-summon as my evening ritual. Still an amazing perk to add something REALLY useful to our party. I also do not over-manage/abuse the privileged of my GM allowing a mount to be useful versus a combat boost spell only. Mounts can add a lot of creative variety for problem solving during an adventure. If we ever get to a level where I have access to find greater steed, I plan on using the same template and adding wings. So a large, flying wolverine will be the mount.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
That’s awesome that you chose a wolverine. It was the same at the beginning for me as well. I would say now that I have greater steed I’m opposite. I use my flying boar more as a mount, but it’s usually for scouting or special mobility/access or aerial combat. I feel like you know if your abusing or not and it’s easy to keep it honest with this altered mechanic
Yep, it is pretty easy to keep from abusing it. On another note, did you give your boar wings or something like running on hooves of lightning? I decided to take the road of Asian dragons and go wingless. I also dig on Appa from Avatar, and planning on riding Mr. Fluffy the wolverine like that, just a floating fluff-ball of rage bounding through the clouds. It is awesome that the spell summons a spirit which takes the shape of...whatever the GM allows.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Man I wish I had that idea. I did wings because the visual just cracked me up. Lion King meets Castlevania and Dragonball Z. I also did wings because I basically just reskinned the Pegasus to make it easy to track for movement speed and it’s basic attack. Only change is he attacks with tusks instead of hooves for same amount of damage. Im really grateful for DMs who are not stingy on this spell.
+1 on the flying boar, it's always something that your GM will remember and that will pull a chuckle from your game partners! I had given mine wings, mostly because of a series of inside jokes with a friend (who comes from the Ardennes region of Belgium, which has a boar as its symbol, and we joked about how it should be a national superhero with dragon wings).
... what kind of wings did you go for, bat-like, bird-like, or something more fantastical?
No kidding another flying boar?! Great minds! And thank you! Also welcome to DnD Beyond!
So far its my favorite character I have made to date with this being a keystone part of the reason. Since I was reskining the pegasus, the wings looked more like white bird wings which flowed well to go with the devotion paladin theme. For future games I might reskin the wings to fit the Oath. My Paladin is Oath of Devotion, but i would probably do:
Dragon/Reptilian wings for Conquest
Bat/Raven wings for Vengeance
Butterfly/Hummingbird wings for Ancients
Falcon/Eagle wings for Crown
Peacock/Rooster wings for Glory
Phoenix/Crane wings for Redemption
I play a conquest paladin and Mr. Fluffy is a flying wolverine that glides through the air like Falcor from The Neverending Story. Wings are cool and fashionable, but Falcor and Appa are still my favorite giant flyers. HAHA :-P
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Thanks, and yes, it's cool to see that there's a flying boar mafia out there! Good call on the white feathered wings, it takes off a bit of the "brutal" look of the boar so that it's more paladin-like. Meanwhile, my paladin has somehow tamed a malevolent beast as a companion, on one hand, it looks cool, but on the other hands, it costs him some credibility as a lawful good character.
A small character can summon a large mount. A medium character could summon a medium mount, but could not ride it. Rules for a mount say it must be at least one size category larger than the creature. So small can ride large, since its at least one larger, but medium can not ride medium.
That was the core of my queary actually, how players/GMs felt about find steed granting an animal companion that couldn't be used as a mount.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
I would think RAW, it would be fine. If you want to spend a level 2 slot on something that can’t be used for much, besides lots of flavor, seems like it would be ok.
Medium beasts (CR 1/2 same as warhorse) that would be occupying a 5x5 space in a dungeon instead of having to wait outside would be: Giant Wasp, Black Bear, or Ape. I would much rather buy a simple riding horse if need be, but have my paladin be able to sit at the bar with his fezz wearing ape to really intimidate the room. Also, apes get a ranged attack
"Barkeep, get BoBo a mug of your best frothy brew" said the half plate adorned paladin of conquest.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
This is truly amazing. Also Ape covers a handful of flavor options for animals, Chimp, Gorilla, Orangutan, Bonobo. The only reason I could possibly think of a DM to not let me go this far with it is if we have someone with the Find Familiar spell that uses it A LOT and wouldn't want toe to be stepped on. Other than I think it would be more than ok.
That shouldn’t matter. You have as much right to your spell, and a paladin’s mount is just as iconic as a wizard’s familiar. Tell that caster not to step on your toe.
I personally don't think it should matter either. But, we are essentially talking about using the find steed spell for a specific function, which is the original design purpose of the find familiar spell. I said it earlier that out of combat I am able to use my mount to scout ahead and track (on a good roll). I don't think the Ape example doesn't do that, but this whole thread we have discussed multiple uses of find steed and how it is not game breaking, but it could step on someones toes (even if I think it is not a big deal, and I'm sure most would agree)