I am just starting a ranger and considering the gloomstalker. I don't understand why the handcrossbow is the go to weapon. Can't I dual wield and use my bonus action to attack with the extra weapon and free up a feat for something else. The damage of the two weapons is the same....What am I missing?
The crossbow expert feat lets you ignore the loading property, and no disadvantage for using a ranged attack when within 5ft of the target along with the bonus action attack. Those are pretty big individually and pretty awesome when you get all 3 with the feat. Combined with the Gloom Stalker subclass at level 3 you get dread ambusher and another attack plus an extra d8 to the damage on that attack. Then at level 5 you get extra attack. What feat would you choose in place of crossbow expert for a Gloom Stalker build, assuming you are going for an optimization build?
But I could just use a shortsword which does the same damage as the handcrossbow and not worry about being within 5ft disadvantage, and play as a melee character, and use the offhand as the bonus attack. the gloomstalker bonus would still apply. Feats like Piercer, or ones that increase abilities could be used instead. I am just theorising.
But I could just use a shortsword which does the same damage as the handcrossbow and not worry about being within 5ft disadvantage, and play as a melee character, and use the offhand as the bonus attack. the gloomstalker bonus would still apply. Feats like Piercer, or ones that increase abilities could be used instead. I am just theorising.
Short sword is not a ranged attack and changing weapons in combat is not free. So from a versatility stand point CBE allows ranged and melee with a d6 weapon and non of the penalties that you would get without CBE instead of a d4 with most of the weapons that are both melee and ranged like daggers et al there is also the handaxe which is d6 slashing vs piercing but melee and ranged. If the ranged attack is not something important to you for your character then CBE isn't as powerful and one of the other feats you mentioned may be a better choice for your build. Which is why I qualified it being a better choice for an optimized build, and that is totally a preference, and it would be fun to play as well.
This is just my opinion, I do find that a Gloom Stalker/CBE build can be a little over specialized which can get a little boring at times.
I just don't want to go down the stock CBE/SS gloomstalker build that everyone uses. I'm looking at other subclasses too, I just don't want to make the same ranger that everyone else is using. For a start, my ranger is a halfling !
I run a gloomstalker ranger with two weapon fighting style (not the feat) and a pair of shortswords and it's quite fun to play. Zephyr Strike is very useful with this build and it almost is like having a ranged attack, since it lets you swoop in and out to hit and then avoid being hit. My gloomstalker does also have a longbow for the times when they need to attack at range.
It's really about - how do you want to play? What will be fun for you?
The gloomstalker is great in dark places and in the first round of combat. But even brightly lit in an extended combat, I still enjoy playing it.
You're missing a few things. Sharpshooter gives you +10 to your damage rolls. TWF can't compete. And archery fighting style gives you +2 to your accuracy, so you pay less of a price when compared to a GWM type doing the same -5/+10 route. And you take less damage because you're not in melee range. And you're maintaining your +X bonus on one hand xbow rather than two shortswords. Not being in melee makes it easier to maintain concentration on hunter's mark as well.
Yes, it's feat intensive, but it will generally smash TWF once you have the feats online.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
thank you for that. I am a halfling so won't get my first feat till level 4. Having said that you make good points. Can I ask, does the extra attack you get on the first round as a gloomstalker do an extra d8 damage on top of the damage of the weapon, or instead of that damage. if it was with a shortsword, would it do d6 and d8 or just d8?
Because the way Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter feat are written limits choice. Every video about optimizing starts with "First, take Crossbow Expert..."
Our DM house rules those feats as would I if I ran a 5e game. My STR based Bugbear Gloom Stalker uses two axes and throwing axes and is a riot to play.
As said above. Its not about Crossbow expert. Its not even entirely about sharpshooter. Its about sharpshooter AND archery style AND crossbow expert. AND then you combine with gloomstalker's ability to get advantage in the dark. On the other side the biggest problem with a CBX only build is the normal range of the hand crossbow and the damage, but sharpshooter fixes those things.
A sharpshooter build on its own is great and the first thing you want for it is: 1. Archery style to negate 2 of the -5 penalty 2. Advantage to further skew the probability 3. More attacks to get more shots
Gloomstalker ranger with CBX gets you all 3. AND you get an extra attack round 1. AND you get an extra attack if you miss at level 11. AND you get magic weapon as a spell (which is probably better than Hunter's Mark on a Sharpshooter build if the fight goes long enough).
thank you for that. I am a halfling so won't get my first feat till level 4. Having said that you make good points. Can I ask, does the extra attack you get on the first round as a gloomstalker do an extra d8 damage on top of the damage of the weapon, or instead of that damage. if it was with a shortsword, would it do d6 and d8 or just d8?
The Gloom Stalker d8 is on top of the normal weapon damage.
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I am just starting a ranger and considering the gloomstalker. I don't understand why the handcrossbow is the go to weapon. Can't I dual wield and use my bonus action to attack with the extra weapon and free up a feat for something else. The damage of the two weapons is the same....What am I missing?
The crossbow expert feat lets you ignore the loading property, and no disadvantage for using a ranged attack when within 5ft of the target along with the bonus action attack. Those are pretty big individually and pretty awesome when you get all 3 with the feat. Combined with the Gloom Stalker subclass at level 3 you get dread ambusher and another attack plus an extra d8 to the damage on that attack. Then at level 5 you get extra attack. What feat would you choose in place of crossbow expert for a Gloom Stalker build, assuming you are going for an optimization build?
But I could just use a shortsword which does the same damage as the handcrossbow and not worry about being within 5ft disadvantage, and play as a melee character, and use the offhand as the bonus attack. the gloomstalker bonus would still apply. Feats like Piercer, or ones that increase abilities could be used instead. I am just theorising.
Short sword is not a ranged attack and changing weapons in combat is not free. So from a versatility stand point CBE allows ranged and melee with a d6 weapon and non of the penalties that you would get without CBE instead of a d4 with most of the weapons that are both melee and ranged like daggers et al there is also the handaxe which is d6 slashing vs piercing but melee and ranged. If the ranged attack is not something important to you for your character then CBE isn't as powerful and one of the other feats you mentioned may be a better choice for your build. Which is why I qualified it being a better choice for an optimized build, and that is totally a preference, and it would be fun to play as well.
This is just my opinion, I do find that a Gloom Stalker/CBE build can be a little over specialized which can get a little boring at times.
I just don't want to go down the stock CBE/SS gloomstalker build that everyone uses. I'm looking at other subclasses too, I just don't want to make the same ranger that everyone else is using. For a start, my ranger is a halfling !
Nice, sounds like a fun build.
I run a gloomstalker ranger with two weapon fighting style (not the feat) and a pair of shortswords and it's quite fun to play. Zephyr Strike is very useful with this build and it almost is like having a ranged attack, since it lets you swoop in and out to hit and then avoid being hit. My gloomstalker does also have a longbow for the times when they need to attack at range.
It's really about - how do you want to play? What will be fun for you?
The gloomstalker is great in dark places and in the first round of combat. But even brightly lit in an extended combat, I still enjoy playing it.
You're missing a few things. Sharpshooter gives you +10 to your damage rolls. TWF can't compete. And archery fighting style gives you +2 to your accuracy, so you pay less of a price when compared to a GWM type doing the same -5/+10 route. And you take less damage because you're not in melee range. And you're maintaining your +X bonus on one hand xbow rather than two shortswords. Not being in melee makes it easier to maintain concentration on hunter's mark as well.
Yes, it's feat intensive, but it will generally smash TWF once you have the feats online.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
thank you for that. I am a halfling so won't get my first feat till level 4. Having said that you make good points. Can I ask, does the extra attack you get on the first round as a gloomstalker do an extra d8 damage on top of the damage of the weapon, or instead of that damage. if it was with a shortsword, would it do d6 and d8 or just d8?
Because the way Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter feat are written limits choice. Every video about optimizing starts with "First, take Crossbow Expert..."
Our DM house rules those feats as would I if I ran a 5e game. My STR based Bugbear Gloom Stalker uses two axes and throwing axes and is a riot to play.
As said above. Its not about Crossbow expert. Its not even entirely about sharpshooter. Its about sharpshooter AND archery style AND crossbow expert. AND then you combine with gloomstalker's ability to get advantage in the dark.
On the other side the biggest problem with a CBX only build is the normal range of the hand crossbow and the damage, but sharpshooter fixes those things.
A sharpshooter build on its own is great and the first thing you want for it is:
1. Archery style to negate 2 of the -5 penalty
2. Advantage to further skew the probability
3. More attacks to get more shots
Gloomstalker ranger with CBX gets you all 3. AND you get an extra attack round 1. AND you get an extra attack if you miss at level 11. AND you get magic weapon as a spell (which is probably better than Hunter's Mark on a Sharpshooter build if the fight goes long enough).
The Gloom Stalker d8 is on top of the normal weapon damage.