At the moment in the campaign, my Gnome character is cursed to be a Warlock as well as a Rogue (this was a choice in arc, not forced. my dm isn't a menace), at level four, I'm at Rouge3 (Phantom)/Warlock1. Current Ability Scores:
Pretty stinky poodoo for a Rouge/Warlock. I was thinking Subclassing with Hexblade, if I hit Warlock 3, but I don't quite know how to go about the route for fixing this build.
This is a 5.5e campaign, but seems we can use things such as Xanathar's and Tasha's Cauldron. Any advice appreciated.
As far as fixing, what is it that you are unhappy with? I know what I would find to be a problem, but it’s more important to know what your issues are.
The main thing you gain with a level of warlock is hex, which requires multiple hits to utilize. You only hit once as a rogue normally. However, a level of rogue also gives you eldritch blast, which doea more hits the higher your overall level. So, if you start off ranged with hex as your bonus action and eldritch blast as your second action, you can do some decent damage without much investment. Then if the enemy gets close you can go back to melee.
Thus, I would say just focus on adding more rogue levels for the sneak attack effect you have gained at level 3. Keep catering your stats towards what you would have done if you stayed rogue. The warlock stuff you gained doesn’t need more as much as the rogue stuff does.
Oh, and as far as your eldritch invocation goes, maybe go with Pact of the Chain? It could be fun to have an invisible imp with you while you are sneaking around as a rogue. Plus it can use the help action without breaking its’ invisibility, letting you get advantage on your one melee attack.
Hey, don’t worry about this too much, ok? I messed up mine worse, and it just comes down to experience. Plus, it’s arguably part of the game to make these kind of decisions in the moment rather than plan everything ahead like I try to do.
The main thing you gain with a level of warlock is hex, which requires multiple hits to utilize. You only hit once as a rogue normally. However, a level of rogue also gives you eldritch blast, which doea more hits the higher your overall level. So, if you start off ranged with hex as your bonus action and eldritch blast as your second action, you can do some decent damage without much investment. Then if the enemy gets close you can go back to melee.
Thus, I would say just focus on adding more rogue levels for the sneak attack effect you have gained at level 3. Keep catering your stats towards what you would have done if you stayed rogue. The warlock stuff you gained doesn’t need more as much as the rogue stuff does.
Oh, and as far as your eldritch invocation goes, maybe go with Pact of the Chain? It could be fun to have an invisible imp with you while you are sneaking around as a rogue. Plus it can use the help action without breaking its’ invisibility, letting you get advantage on your one melee attack.
Hey, don’t worry about this too much, ok? I messed up mine worse, and it just comes down to experience. Plus, it’s arguably part of the game to make these kind of decisions in the moment rather than plan everything ahead like I try to do.
Above all else, focus on having fun with it!
Rogues typically have much more interesting things to do with their bonus action than try to get an extra d6.
And his EB will not be great. It will use his cha for to hit, which is low, and EB doesn’t benefit from sneak attack. Much better off sticking with a short bow or hand crossbow or whatever he’s using now for range.
Until the OP answers, we can’t be sure what they want. I mean, I’d say take something like armor of shadows for an invocation so you can go around unarmored. Then take rogue at next level up for the feat, and depending on the goal or direction they want to take with the character, there could be lots of ways to go with it.
The main thing you gain with a level of warlock is hex, which requires multiple hits to utilize. You only hit once as a rogue normally. However, a level of rogue also gives you eldritch blast, which doea more hits the higher your overall level. So, if you start off ranged with hex as your bonus action and eldritch blast as your second action, you can do some decent damage without much investment. Then if the enemy gets close you can go back to melee.
Thus, I would say just focus on adding more rogue levels for the sneak attack effect you have gained at level 3. Keep catering your stats towards what you would have done if you stayed rogue. The warlock stuff you gained doesn’t need more as much as the rogue stuff does.
Oh, and as far as your eldritch invocation goes, maybe go with Pact of the Chain? It could be fun to have an invisible imp with you while you are sneaking around as a rogue. Plus it can use the help action without breaking its’ invisibility, letting you get advantage on your one melee attack.
Hey, don’t worry about this too much, ok? I messed up mine worse, and it just comes down to experience. Plus, it’s arguably part of the game to make these kind of decisions in the moment rather than plan everything ahead like I try to do.
Above all else, focus on having fun with it!
Rogues typically have much more interesting things to do with their bonus action than try to get an extra d6.
And his EB will not be great. It will use his cha for to hit, which is low, and EB doesn’t benefit from sneak attack. Much better off sticking with a short bow or hand crossbow or whatever he’s using now for range.
Until the OP answers, we can’t be sure what they want. I mean, I’d say take something like armor of shadows for an invocation so you can go around unarmored. Then take rogue at next level up for the feat, and depending on the goal or direction they want to take with the character, there could be lots of ways to go with it.
You’re right about the first two things. Sorry. I still don’t think Armor of Shadows is worth it though unless he doesn’t have armor already for some reason. Even then, I would probably just take the light armor wince it doesn’t give disadvantage on stealth roles. There’s nothing to concentrate on with eldritch mind. The charisma is too low for Pact of the Blade. Aside from some rituals, Pact of the Tome attack spells have the same problem, so there would just be some extra utility. I still think Pact of the Chain is the best option, but that’s just me.
As others have said, this does not "mess up" the character, it simply adds flavor - flavor that can be quite advantageous. Take either Pact of the Tome or Pact of the Chain, but in any case, use your Warlocks spells to add utility. For combat, relay on your Rogue abilities and/or familiar.
Armor of Agathys, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Distort Value, Protection from Evil, Unseen Servant - all of these can compliment your Roguish side.
A 1 level dip only puts you one level behind on ASIs and the rest of the party (assuming they didn't multi-class). Continue advancing your Dex score either with ASIs (preferable) or Feats. I would not increase your Cha score, at least not until your Dex is maxed out. This is actually quite doable.
The main thing you gain with a level of warlock is hex, which requires multiple hits to utilize. You only hit once as a rogue normally. However, a level of rogue also gives you eldritch blast, which doea more hits the higher your overall level. So, if you start off ranged with hex as your bonus action and eldritch blast as your second action, you can do some decent damage without much investment. Then if the enemy gets close you can go back to melee.
Thus, I would say just focus on adding more rogue levels for the sneak attack effect you have gained at level 3. Keep catering your stats towards what you would have done if you stayed rogue. The warlock stuff you gained doesn’t need more as much as the rogue stuff does.
Oh, and as far as your eldritch invocation goes, maybe go with Pact of the Chain? It could be fun to have an invisible imp with you while you are sneaking around as a rogue. Plus it can use the help action without breaking its’ invisibility, letting you get advantage on your one melee attack.
Hey, don’t worry about this too much, ok? I messed up mine worse, and it just comes down to experience. Plus, it’s arguably part of the game to make these kind of decisions in the moment rather than plan everything ahead like I try to do.
Above all else, focus on having fun with it!
Rogues typically have much more interesting things to do with their bonus action than try to get an extra d6.
And his EB will not be great. It will use his cha for to hit, which is low, and EB doesn’t benefit from sneak attack. Much better off sticking with a short bow or hand crossbow or whatever he’s using now for range.
Until the OP answers, we can’t be sure what they want. I mean, I’d say take something like armor of shadows for an invocation so you can go around unarmored. Then take rogue at next level up for the feat, and depending on the goal or direction they want to take with the character, there could be lots of ways to go with it.
You’re right about the first two things. Sorry. I still don’t think Armor of Shadows is worth it though unless he doesn’t have armor already for some reason. Even then, I would probably just take the light armor wince it doesn’t give disadvantage on stealth roles. There’s nothing to concentrate on with eldritch mind. The charisma is too low for Pact of the Blade. Aside from some rituals, Pact of the Tome attack spells have the same problem, so there would just be some extra utility. I still think Pact of the Chain is the best option, but that’s just me.
Good point, armor of shadows would probably be a bad choice. I was mostly thinking about a level 1 invocation that’s more utility and doesn’t involve an attack roll. My first thought for a rogue had been mask of many faces, but that requires level 2.
I think the other thing for the OP to remember is for rogues to stay relevant, they really need to keep their sneak attack dice pool growing. So, with this stat spread really saying rogue, they should really consider how many, if any, more warlock levels to take. I’d try and keep that number really low.
The main thing you gain with a level of warlock is hex, which requires multiple hits to utilize. You only hit once as a rogue normally. However, a level of rogue also gives you eldritch blast, which doea more hits the higher your overall level. So, if you start off ranged with hex as your bonus action and eldritch blast as your second action, you can do some decent damage without much investment. Then if the enemy gets close you can go back to melee.
Thus, I would say just focus on adding more rogue levels for the sneak attack effect you have gained at level 3. Keep catering your stats towards what you would have done if you stayed rogue. The warlock stuff you gained doesn’t need more as much as the rogue stuff does.
Oh, and as far as your eldritch invocation goes, maybe go with Pact of the Chain? It could be fun to have an invisible imp with you while you are sneaking around as a rogue. Plus it can use the help action without breaking its’ invisibility, letting you get advantage on your one melee attack.
Hey, don’t worry about this too much, ok? I messed up mine worse, and it just comes down to experience. Plus, it’s arguably part of the game to make these kind of decisions in the moment rather than plan everything ahead like I try to do.
Above all else, focus on having fun with it!
Rogues typically have much more interesting things to do with their bonus action than try to get an extra d6.
And his EB will not be great. It will use his cha for to hit, which is low, and EB doesn’t benefit from sneak attack. Much better off sticking with a short bow or hand crossbow or whatever he’s using now for range.
Until the OP answers, we can’t be sure what they want. I mean, I’d say take something like armor of shadows for an invocation so you can go around unarmored. Then take rogue at next level up for the feat, and depending on the goal or direction they want to take with the character, there could be lots of ways to go with it.
You’re right about the first two things. Sorry. I still don’t think Armor of Shadows is worth it though unless he doesn’t have armor already for some reason. Even then, I would probably just take the light armor wince it doesn’t give disadvantage on stealth roles. There’s nothing to concentrate on with eldritch mind. The charisma is too low for Pact of the Blade. Aside from some rituals, Pact of the Tome attack spells have the same problem, so there would just be some extra utility. I still think Pact of the Chain is the best option, but that’s just me.
Good point, armor of shadows would probably be a bad choice. I was mostly thinking about a level 1 invocation that’s more utility and doesn’t involve an attack roll. My first thought for a rogue had been mask of many faces, but that requires level 2.
I think the other thing for the OP to remember is for rogues to stay relevant, they really need to keep their sneak attack dice pool growing. So, with this stat spread really saying rogue, they should really consider how many, if any, more warlock levels to take. I’d try and keep that number really low.
I agree completely. I wish Eldritch Blast was more reliable without charisma, but it might have to be a backup option rather than truly utilizing it. Still, it can be good to have a ranged option.
For the Warlock spells, I’d say use the pact magic spell slot for Tasha’s Hideous Laughter. In the event you have to use a ranged atack but are still pretty close, I’d have Hex for that.
As far as fixing, what is it that you are unhappy with? I know what I would find to be a problem, but it’s more important to know what your issues are.
Generally it was not really knowing what way to go, as spell save and attack would be low, so I didn't know what to choose for my stuff.
As others have said, this does not "mess up" the character, it simply adds flavor - flavor that can be quite advantageous. Take either Pact of the Tome or Pact of the Chain, but in any case, use your Warlocks spells to add utility. For combat, relay on your Rogue abilities and/or familiar.
Armor of Agathys, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Distort Value, Protection from Evil, Unseen Servant - all of these can compliment your Roguish side.
A 1 level dip only puts you one level behind on ASIs and the rest of the party (assuming they didn't multi-class). Continue advancing your Dex score either with ASIs (preferable) or Feats. I would not increase your Cha score, at least not until your Dex is maxed out. This is actually quite doable.
This seems like the way to go. I'll follow this to the best of my ability and come back and see how well I do, whether this fella meets an unfortunate end or not. Appreciate everyone's input!
Cantrips Blade Ward (1 min conc for d4 AC boost effectively) - high CHA not required True Strike (Long game here, epic boon at 19th level take combat prowess. If you miss you hit once per round. So if you use TS on a shortbow you roll for possible crit, if you miss yo hit anyway, and you add 3d6 damage at 17th level, and can make it radiant instead of piercing etc) I would not bother with eldritch blast with a CHA 13
Level 1 Protection from evil and good (10 min conc, scary monsters get disadv to attack your AC and can't charm you) - high CHA not required Witch Bolt (1 min conc, even if you miss the 1st attack you can do d12 dmg per round automatically as a BA - ok Rogues have a lot of competition for their BA)
Pact of the Tome Guidance (Rogues always benefit on skill boosts, so Stealth=Dex+Prof+prof(expertise)+d4) - high CHA not required Message (Great for rogues to msg back to the party if advanced scouting - high CHA not required Spare the dying (useful at times to prevent a TPK) - high CHA not required Comprehend Languages (ritual, rogues sneaking in places can then read the documents to get the evidence/blackmail material etc) - high CHA not required Detect Poison and Disease (ritual, ever seen a trapped chest ...) - high CHA not required [or identify also a ritual)
Buy a wand of detect magic (non attunement) so you have that covered.
Go the rest as rogue, shortbow qith vex gives you advantage each round as long as you hit, if you have adv then you keep getting sneak attack damage from a distance.
Get a vicious shortbow (non attunement), adds another 2d6 to the bow.
That's all the long game. The one level in warlock is enough to get some great boosts to your rogue skills without sinking the rogue by the multiclass dip.
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At the moment in the campaign, my Gnome character is cursed to be a Warlock as well as a Rogue (this was a choice in arc, not forced. my dm isn't a menace), at level four, I'm at Rouge3 (Phantom)/Warlock1. Current Ability Scores:
Str: 8, Dex: 16, Con: 13, Int: 9, Wis: 15, Cha: 13.
Pretty stinky poodoo for a Rouge/Warlock. I was thinking Subclassing with Hexblade, if I hit Warlock 3, but I don't quite know how to go about the route for fixing this build.
This is a 5.5e campaign, but seems we can use things such as Xanathar's and Tasha's Cauldron. Any advice appreciated.
Do you have to keep taking warlock levels?
As far as fixing, what is it that you are unhappy with? I know what I would find to be a problem, but it’s more important to know what your issues are.
The main thing you gain with a level of warlock is hex, which requires multiple hits to utilize. You only hit once as a rogue normally. However, a level of rogue also gives you eldritch blast, which doea more hits the higher your overall level. So, if you start off ranged with hex as your bonus action and eldritch blast as your second action, you can do some decent damage without much investment. Then if the enemy gets close you can go back to melee.
Thus, I would say just focus on adding more rogue levels for the sneak attack effect you have gained at level 3. Keep catering your stats towards what you would have done if you stayed rogue. The warlock stuff you gained doesn’t need more as much as the rogue stuff does.
Oh, and as far as your eldritch invocation goes, maybe go with Pact of the Chain? It could be fun to have an invisible imp with you while you are sneaking around as a rogue. Plus it can use the help action without breaking its’ invisibility, letting you get advantage on your one melee attack.
Hey, don’t worry about this too much, ok? I messed up mine worse, and it just comes down to experience. Plus, it’s arguably part of the game to make these kind of decisions in the moment rather than plan everything ahead like I try to do.
Above all else, focus on having fun with it!
Rogues typically have much more interesting things to do with their bonus action than try to get an extra d6.
And his EB will not be great. It will use his cha for to hit, which is low, and EB doesn’t benefit from sneak attack. Much better off sticking with a short bow or hand crossbow or whatever he’s using now for range.
Until the OP answers, we can’t be sure what they want. I mean, I’d say take something like armor of shadows for an invocation so you can go around unarmored. Then take rogue at next level up for the feat, and depending on the goal or direction they want to take with the character, there could be lots of ways to go with it.
You’re right about the first two things. Sorry. I still don’t think Armor of Shadows is worth it though unless he doesn’t have armor already for some reason. Even then, I would probably just take the light armor wince it doesn’t give disadvantage on stealth roles. There’s nothing to concentrate on with eldritch mind. The charisma is too low for Pact of the Blade. Aside from some rituals, Pact of the Tome attack spells have the same problem, so there would just be some extra utility. I still think Pact of the Chain is the best option, but that’s just me.
As others have said, this does not "mess up" the character, it simply adds flavor - flavor that can be quite advantageous. Take either Pact of the Tome or Pact of the Chain, but in any case, use your Warlocks spells to add utility. For combat, relay on your Rogue abilities and/or familiar.
Armor of Agathys, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Distort Value, Protection from Evil, Unseen Servant - all of these can compliment your Roguish side.
A 1 level dip only puts you one level behind on ASIs and the rest of the party (assuming they didn't multi-class). Continue advancing your Dex score either with ASIs (preferable) or Feats. I would not increase your Cha score, at least not until your Dex is maxed out. This is actually quite doable.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Good point, armor of shadows would probably be a bad choice. I was mostly thinking about a level 1 invocation that’s more utility and doesn’t involve an attack roll. My first thought for a rogue had been mask of many faces, but that requires level 2.
I think the other thing for the OP to remember is for rogues to stay relevant, they really need to keep their sneak attack dice pool growing. So, with this stat spread really saying rogue, they should really consider how many, if any, more warlock levels to take. I’d try and keep that number really low.
I agree completely. I wish Eldritch Blast was more reliable without charisma, but it might have to be a backup option rather than truly utilizing it. Still, it can be good to have a ranged option.
For the Warlock spells, I’d say use the pact magic spell slot for Tasha’s Hideous Laughter. In the event you have to use a ranged atack but are still pretty close, I’d have Hex for that.
Generally it was not really knowing what way to go, as spell save and attack would be low, so I didn't know what to choose for my stuff.
This seems like the way to go. I'll follow this to the best of my ability and come back and see how well I do, whether this fella meets an unfortunate end or not. Appreciate everyone's input!
Warlock level 1:
Cantrips
Blade Ward (1 min conc for d4 AC boost effectively) - high CHA not required
True Strike (Long game here, epic boon at 19th level take combat prowess. If you miss you hit once per round. So if you use TS on a shortbow you roll for possible crit, if you miss yo hit anyway, and you add 3d6 damage at 17th level, and can make it radiant instead of piercing etc)
I would not bother with eldritch blast with a CHA 13
Level 1
Protection from evil and good (10 min conc, scary monsters get disadv to attack your AC and can't charm you) - high CHA not required
Witch Bolt (1 min conc, even if you miss the 1st attack you can do d12 dmg per round automatically as a BA - ok Rogues have a lot of competition for their BA)
Pact of the Tome
Guidance (Rogues always benefit on skill boosts, so Stealth=Dex+Prof+prof(expertise)+d4) - high CHA not required
Message (Great for rogues to msg back to the party if advanced scouting - high CHA not required
Spare the dying (useful at times to prevent a TPK) - high CHA not required
Comprehend Languages (ritual, rogues sneaking in places can then read the documents to get the evidence/blackmail material etc) - high CHA not required
Detect Poison and Disease (ritual, ever seen a trapped chest ...) - high CHA not required [or identify also a ritual)
Buy a wand of detect magic (non attunement) so you have that covered.
Go the rest as rogue, shortbow qith vex gives you advantage each round as long as you hit, if you have adv then you keep getting sneak attack damage from a distance.
Get a vicious shortbow (non attunement), adds another 2d6 to the bow.
That's all the long game. The one level in warlock is enough to get some great boosts to your rogue skills without sinking the rogue by the multiclass dip.
Life's hard - get a helmet!