Just thought I would share something I discovered while working with a player on their Inquisitive Rogue. It came as a bit of a surprise to me, and I thought others might find it interesting too.
Perhaps the defining feature of Inquisitive Rogues is Insightful Fighting, with which they can make Sneak Attacks if they succeed on an Insight check contested by their target's Deception check, and they do not make their attack with Disadvantage. There is no range restriction on this ability; the Rogue need only be able to see their target, and it is good for one minute or until the Rogue shifts targets. The Rogue can even make the check as a Bonus Action.
If you combine this with Tasha's Steady Aim, Inquisitive Rogues can land Sneak Attacks with ranged weapons at long range, without suffering Disadvantage, since the effects of Steady Aim and Long Range cancel each other. Moreover, since Disadvantage doesn't stack, the Inquisitive Rogue can make the shot while Prone and still not suffer Disadvantage. There is no problem respecting the movement restrictions of Steady Aim while Prone, and being Prone also means that all attacks from opponents farther than 5' are at Disadvantage, .
So an Inquisitive Rogue can land Sneak Attacks with a Light Crossbow at a range of 320', without suffering Disadvantage on the shot, while lying Prone, which makes attacks against them suffer from Disadvantage. They could even position themselves in three quarters cover and gain a +5 bonus to AC and DEX saving throws.
Not game breaking, but I found it pretty interesting nonetheless, especially as it comes on line at third level, and there is no special investment required, although good DEX, WIS and Expertise in Insight would clearly help. Any Inquisitive Rogue can do this, just by choosing the sub class.
That is a good point that I know I hadn’t considered. But since it is tied to contested checks if you fail your out of luck. But, although disadvantage/advantage doesn’t stack, being prone wouldn’t give disadvantage because of stacking it is still an instance of disadvantage that probably not allow the Insightful fighting because you can’t use it with disadvantage.
Advantage doesn’t get rid of disadvantage, it offsets it so you could still have advantage and disadvantage and attack as a normal roll, but precludes the feature
That is a good point that I know I hadn’t considered. But since it is tied to contested checks if you fail your out of luck. But, although disadvantage/advantage doesn’t stack, being prone wouldn’t give disadvantage because of stacking it is still an instance of disadvantage that probably not allow the Insightful fighting because you can’t use it with disadvantage.
Advantage doesn’t get rid of disadvantage, it offsets it so you could still have advantage and disadvantage and attack as a normal roll, but precludes the feature
If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage.
The Inquisitive Rogue would, it seems to me, still have access to Insightful Fighting when Prone, at Long Range and using Steady Aim, since they have neither advantage nor disadvantage, and the feature is accessible so long as they do not have disadvantage. Or am I missing something?
You are correct in pointing out that a contested Insight check must be won, but the Rogue need only succeed once against a given target, and, on failure, is free to try again. I would also expect most Inquisitive Rogues to take Expertise in Insight and favour WIS in their builds, as Insight is connected to a number of their defining features, which should make success more likely, especially if they are careful in picking targets with low CHR. Don't try this on a Bard!
Just thought I would share something I discovered while working with a player on their Inquisitive Rogue. It came as a bit of a surprise to me, and I thought others might find it interesting too.
Perhaps the defining feature of Inquisitive Rogues is Insightful Fighting, with which they can make Sneak Attacks if they succeed on an Insight check contested by their target's Deception check, and they do not make their attack with Disadvantage. There is no range restriction on this ability; the Rogue need only be able to see their target, and it is good for one minute or until the Rogue shifts targets. The Rogue can even make the check as a Bonus Action.
If you combine this with Tasha's Steady Aim, Inquisitive Rogues can land Sneak Attacks with ranged weapons at long range, without suffering Disadvantage, since the effects of Steady Aim and Long Range cancel each other. Moreover, since Disadvantage doesn't stack, the Inquisitive Rogue can make the shot while Prone and still not suffer Disadvantage. There is no problem respecting the movement restrictions of Steady Aim while Prone, and being Prone also means that all attacks from opponents farther than 5' are at Disadvantage, .
So an Inquisitive Rogue can land Sneak Attacks with a Light Crossbow at a range of 320', without suffering Disadvantage on the shot, while lying Prone, which makes attacks against them suffer from Disadvantage. They could even position themselves in three quarters cover and gain a +5 bonus to AC and DEX saving throws.
Not game breaking, but I found it pretty interesting nonetheless, especially as it comes on line at third level, and there is no special investment required, although good DEX, WIS and Expertise in Insight would clearly help. Any Inquisitive Rogue can do this, just by choosing the sub class.
That is a good point that I know I hadn’t considered. But since it is tied to contested checks if you fail your out of luck. But, although disadvantage/advantage doesn’t stack, being prone wouldn’t give disadvantage because of stacking it is still an instance of disadvantage that probably not allow the Insightful fighting because you can’t use it with disadvantage.
Advantage doesn’t get rid of disadvantage, it offsets it so you could still have advantage and disadvantage and attack as a normal roll, but precludes the feature
Is this the case? The rules on Advantage and Disadvantage say:
If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage.
The Inquisitive Rogue would, it seems to me, still have access to Insightful Fighting when Prone, at Long Range and using Steady Aim, since they have neither advantage nor disadvantage, and the feature is accessible so long as they do not have disadvantage. Or am I missing something?
You are correct in pointing out that a contested Insight check must be won, but the Rogue need only succeed once against a given target, and, on failure, is free to try again. I would also expect most Inquisitive Rogues to take Expertise in Insight and favour WIS in their builds, as Insight is connected to a number of their defining features, which should make success more likely, especially if they are careful in picking targets with low CHR. Don't try this on a Bard!
You are correct. I was misremembering how that worked. Thanks for the correction.
Sniper Rogue. I like it. 👍