So the Pearl of Power regains an expended spell slot of equal power up to level 3, but what happens if the person that uses it doesn’t have that level’s spell slots normally? For example if someone gains a second level spell slot when they normally wouldn’t have one, use the spell slot, and then activate the Pearl of Power, would they then regain that spell slot? Since that is technically how the Pearl of Power works I would assume yes, since it can technically give you more level 3 spell slots than you would normally have.
What game element are you referencing exactly? It would depend if you can regain that expanded 2nd spell slot that you have gained somehow while not normally having one. The Pearl of power is intended to give you back expanded spell slot that you normally have.
I assume that this is some sort of coffelock shenanigans at work, but no, you cannot regain an expended spell slot that you don't have. You have spell slots on your character sheet. Is one of them expended? If yes you can use Pearl of Power to get it back. If no, then you can't.
Sorcerer’s can create spell slots using sorcery points - if one expended all sorcery points to create a spell slot of a level they wouldn’t normally have using flexible casting, it would create a spell slot for them of the relevant level which then I’m wondering, can a Pearl of Power regain this spell slot?
Sorcerer’s can create spell slots using sorcery points - if one expended all sorcery points to create a spell slot of a level they wouldn’t normally have using flexible casting, it would create a spell slot for them of the relevant level which then I’m wondering, can a Pearl of Power regain this spell slot?
The additional spell slots gained from Flexible Casting would be regained with a Pearl of Power but they would still vanish when you finish a long rest.
Sorcerer’s can create spell slots using sorcery points - if one expended all sorcery points to create a spell slot of a level they wouldn’t normally have using flexible casting, it would create a spell slot for them of the relevant level which then I’m wondering, can a Pearl of Power regain this spell slot?
The additional spell slots gained from Flexible Casting would be regained with a Pearl of Power but they would still vanish when you finish a long rest.
I agree with this, but I'm curious how they are getting enough sorcery points to make a higher slot than they can normally have?
Sorcerer’s can create spell slots using sorcery points - if one expended all sorcery points to create a spell slot of a level they wouldn’t normally have using flexible casting, it would create a spell slot for them of the relevant level which then I’m wondering, can a Pearl of Power regain this spell slot?
The additional spell slots gained from Flexible Casting would be regained with a Pearl of Power but they would still vanish when you finish a long rest.
I agree with this, but I'm curious how they are getting enough sorcery points to make a higher slot than they can normally have?
Yeah Flexible Casting doesn't limit you to spell slot level you have You're limited by your sorcery points but if you have some way of gaining more sorcery points you could.
@HeinousAnus1 can you posses more spell slots than you have in any given class? Specifically sorcerer points. Can you gain spell slot if you haven’t expended any yet or can you not gain more than the total amount of slots you have across all lvls?
@JeremyECrawford Using Flexible Casting, a sorcerer can convert sorcery points into spell slots. The number of sorcery points you have is the only limit on the number of slots you can create in this way. (Remember that the slots go away when you finish a long rest.)
Sorcerer’s can create spell slots using sorcery points - if one expended all sorcery points to create a spell slot of a level they wouldn’t normally have using flexible casting, it would create a spell slot for them of the relevant level which then I’m wondering, can a Pearl of Power regain this spell slot?
Yes. The Pearl of Power can regain any slot you've expended - it has no rules limiting itself to slots you've expended that you got from any given source. There are a bunch of undefined terms here which are similarly abusable with a Bloodwell Vial, so I'll go over everything:
An L2 sorcerer has 2 points per day and hence can make an L1 slot, which they have normal access to. The PoP can regenerate the one made with points - you don't need to track which slots are fake and which are normal.
An L3 sorcerer can do the same thing with an L2 slot.
An L5 sorcerer can do the same thing with an L3 slot.
As emphasized by the Bloodwell Vial, "regain" is not a defined game term (and as not emphasized by the Vial, neither is "expend"). This means the rules divide depending on how your DM defines terms:
If you can only regain something you expended today (not a rule on either magic item), you have to make the slot with points every day in order to use the PoP on it.
If it doesn't matter when you expended the slot, but flexible casting slots vanishing at the end of a long rest don't count as being expended, then if you used the slot you made yesterday yesterday, you can bring it back with the PoP, but if you didn't and it vanished this morning, you can't. That means you do have to track which slots you make, vs which ones you woke up with.
If it doesn't matter when you expended the slot and long rest slot vanishing counts as expended, then you can "prep" the PoP by making a slot and letting it vanish - the PoP can now bring that slot back. You have to track made slots this way as well.
The Metamagic Adept feat, like several other feats (like Telekinetic) is so poorly written it doesn't actually function. If your DM house rules that in addition to its listed effects, it adds 2 to your sorcery point cap, which is traditionally how DMs rule on it, then you can do something it normally takes an L6 (for an L4 slot) or L7-8 (for an L5 slot) Sorcerer to do at level 2: create a slot at a higher level than you can normally have. For example, at L2 you could make an L2 slot, and at L3-4 you could make an L3 slot. Nothing changes - the PoP will still work on that slot, with the same provisos as above for figuring out what regain and expend mean.
Bloodweill Vials don't only let you regain expended sorcery points - you can just regain spell points, expended or not, bringing into even sharper focus the problem that we don't know what regain means. If your DM house rules that Bloodwell Vials, like the Metamagic Adept feat, raise your sorcery point cap despite not having a rule saying so, and lets you regain sorcery points from yesterday, item 5 above exacerbates in terms of the highest level slot you can make, but nothing else changes.
Imagine spell slots are like a revolver's bullet chambers, you can only reload an empty chamber that you have with a Pearl of Power, wether permanent or temporarily gained. Since spell slots at your disposal are either loaded or expanded and permanent ones are regained after every long rest, regaining an expanded slot logically means it's one expanded today.
Here Flexible Casting is temporarily increasing your ammount of barrel's chambers for the day and a Pearl of Power reloads one of them.
Sorcerer’s can create spell slots using sorcery points - if one expended all sorcery points to create a spell slot of a level they wouldn’t normally have using flexible casting, it would create a spell slot for them of the relevant level which then I’m wondering, can a Pearl of Power regain this spell slot?
The additional spell slots gained from Flexible Casting would be regained with a Pearl of Power but they would still vanish when you finish a long rest.
I agree with this, but I'm curious how they are getting enough sorcery points to make a higher slot than they can normally have?
At some levels a sorcerer has enough spell points to purchase a spell slot of the next level up for which they have no slots. The multiclassing approach doesn't really work since the number of sorcery points that a sorcerer can have is capped at the number for their level. A level 5 sorcerer/3 warlock with 5 sorcery points can't expend the 2 warlock spell slots for 4 sorcery points because they are capped at 5 maximum sorcery points.
"You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level."
Spell slot costs:
1 - 2 points
2 - 3 points
3 - 5 points
4 - 6 points
5 - 7 points
A level 6 sorcerer can purchase a level 4 spell slot even though they don't have any 4th level spells.
A level 7 or 8 sorcerer can purchase a 5th level spell slot even though they don't have any 5th level spells.
In terms of the pearl of power, if the sorcerer has expended any sorcery points for a spell slot then the pearl of power can be used to create a spell slot to replace it. This also applies to a warlock of level 7+ who expends one of their 4th or 5th level slots - they will end up with a 3rd level slot that they don't normally have.
It’s been stated outright that new rules subvert old rules and so metamagic adept ignores this idea of ‘never more than what the table says for your level’. It even very specifically says on the feat that you can add it to your existing pool of sorcery points.
No, it hasn’t. You may not have more sorcery points than your level shows on the table, +2 from the feat. The feat does not remove the idea of a cap in its entirety.
You obviously can’t swap spell slots for more sorcery points than your level dictates, but you can ignore the cap for the feat. That’s what I’m getting at. It alone ignores that cap. I did specify metamagic adept, which is the name of the feat.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding folks points in general... so rather than argue with this or that conclusion, here's some truths:
A sorcerer's sorcery points (the actual cap of their points, and the total points that they start with after a long rest) is set by their Sorcerer level. Converting spells to sorcery points cannot refill points over that cap.
The Metamagic Adept feat provides two more sorcery points beyond whatever that cap is, but they are a different sort of point that cannot be spent on Flexible Casting, only on Metamagic. (It's arguable whether this makes it more useful to think of your Sorcery Point cap being increased by +2 over what the table shows but you have 2 points in that pool that cannot be spent on spell slots, or more useful to think of them as a separate pool of 2 ~Sorcery Point Variant~ points which can receive points from Flexible Casting conversion but not be spent on it, but that might be a distinction without a difference)
Flexible casting allows you to "gain" spell slots or "gain" Sorcery Points. While there is an explicit cap on how many sorcery points you can gain (not in excess of what shown on your class level, or +2 with the Metamagic Adept feat), no such cap exists for spell slots in the sorcerer description or PHB Chapter 11.
but the Pearl of Power allows you to regain one expended spell slot. While Flexible Casting allows gaining slots you never had, you cannot regain something that you never had, and which was not already expended. Whether that means today, or ever in your life, debatable.
The Bloodwell Vial also lets you regain sorcery points, not gain them. It cannot fill sorcery points over your sorcerer-level cap, or over that cap +2 with the Metamagic Adept feat.
it also looks like the pearl of power spell slot remains until used unless I'm missing something (it says it's a new lvl 3 spell slot if you use the pearl to replenish a 4th level or higher slot) . I suspect that I'm missing a spellcasting rule or is unintended as without a mechanic setting your spell slots back to default on a long rest you could bank 3rd level spell slots.
Edit: If people want to chase this oddity down I can make a new thread since it's a tangent here.
it also looks like the pearl of power spell slot remains until used unless I'm missing something (it says it's a new lvl 3 spell slot if you use the pearl to replenish a 4th level or higher slot) . I suspect that I'm missing a spellcasting rule or is unintended as without a mechanic setting your spell slots back to default on a long rest you could bank 3rd level spell slots.
Edit: If people want to chase this oddity down I can make a new thread since it's a tangent here.
It seems to be another way to coffeelock. A sorcerer could convert their extra expended spell slot (purchased with sorcery points) to a regular spell slot up to 3rd level using a pearl of power 1/day.
CC says
"but the Pearl of Power allows you to regain one expended spell slot. While Flexible Casting allows gaining slots you never had, you cannot regain something that you never had, and which was not already expended. Whether that means today, or ever in your life, debatable. "
I have to question the logic here. If you never had a spell slot from flexible casting then you can't use it to cast a spell since you never had it. Which makes no sense. Pearl of power does not distinguish between spell slots granted by a class feature and spell slots purchased using sorcery points. At the time of casting a spell with a spell slot purchased using sorcery points the sorcerer HAS the spell slots so it is possible for the sorcerer to regain that spell slot. The rules don't distinguish between the source of the spell slots.
So, RAW, I'd say that a sorcerer could use the pearl of power to increase the number of spell slots they have available by 1/day by using a pearl of power. Buy a spell slot using sorcery points, expend it, regain it via pearl of power. Rinse and repeat daily. (Note: the spellcasting text indicates that "You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest" - it doesn't actually say that the character's spellslots are restored to their base level, only that expended ones are regained - I might be missing it somewhere though).
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with exactly. If a 2nd level sorcerer expends its 2 sorcery points on creating a 1st-level spell slot, while still having its normal three 1st-level spell slots available, it has created a fourth 1st-level spell slot. If it tries to use a Pearl of Power at this point... nothing happens, because they haven't expended any slots. If they expend that fourth (extra) spell slot, they have expended a slot, and can use the Pearl of Power to regain it (even though they still have their normal three spell slots). Agreed?
You can't regain spell slots with Pearl of Power that you've never had (e.g., regaining a third level spell slot when you've never had a third level spell slot). I'd think it's RAI that you can't regain spell slots that you've already regained (e.g., casting a spell on Day 1, regaining it with Pearl of Power on Day 1, and then on Day 2 trying to regain it again with Pearl of Power before you've cast any more spells). But you can regain spell slots you've expended, even if they're not spell slots that are provided on your class table.
So the Pearl of Power regains an expended spell slot of equal power up to level 3, but what happens if the person that uses it doesn’t have that level’s spell slots normally?
For example if someone gains a second level spell slot when they normally wouldn’t have one, use the spell slot, and then activate the Pearl of Power, would they then regain that spell slot? Since that is technically how the Pearl of Power works I would assume yes, since it can technically give you more level 3 spell slots than you would normally have.
Thoughts?
What game element are you referencing exactly? It would depend if you can regain that expanded 2nd spell slot that you have gained somehow while not normally having one. The Pearl of power is intended to give you back expanded spell slot that you normally have.
How would one get a spellslot one wouldn't normally have?
You can't expend spell slots you don't have. PoP gives you back an expenden spell slot. Not sure what the question even is.
I assume that this is some sort of coffelock shenanigans at work, but no, you cannot regain an expended spell slot that you don't have. You have spell slots on your character sheet. Is one of them expended? If yes you can use Pearl of Power to get it back. If no, then you can't.
Sorcerer’s can create spell slots using sorcery points - if one expended all sorcery points to create a spell slot of a level they wouldn’t normally have using flexible casting, it would create a spell slot for them of the relevant level which then I’m wondering, can a Pearl of Power regain this spell slot?
The additional spell slots gained from Flexible Casting would be regained with a Pearl of Power but they would still vanish when you finish a long rest.
I agree with this, but I'm curious how they are getting enough sorcery points to make a higher slot than they can normally have?
Answering my own question I guess a warlock multiclass(burning their lock slots for spell slots) or the new sorc focus from Tasha's? https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/bloodwell-vial
Yeah Flexible Casting doesn't limit you to spell slot level you have You're limited by your sorcery points but if you have some way of gaining more sorcery points you could.
A Dev also answered this question on his twitter https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/972239870499291136?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^972239870499291136|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.sageadvice.eu/__trashed-29/
@HeinousAnus1 can you posses more spell slots than you have in any given class? Specifically sorcerer points. Can you gain spell slot if you haven’t expended any yet or can you not gain more than the total amount of slots you have across all lvls?
@JeremyECrawford Using Flexible Casting, a sorcerer can convert sorcery points into spell slots. The number of sorcery points you have is the only limit on the number of slots you can create in this way. (Remember that the slots go away when you finish a long rest.)
Yes. The Pearl of Power can regain any slot you've expended - it has no rules limiting itself to slots you've expended that you got from any given source. There are a bunch of undefined terms here which are similarly abusable with a Bloodwell Vial, so I'll go over everything:
Imagine spell slots are like a revolver's bullet chambers, you can only reload an empty chamber that you have with a Pearl of Power, wether permanent or temporarily gained. Since spell slots at your disposal are either loaded or expanded and permanent ones are regained after every long rest, regaining an expanded slot logically means it's one expanded today.
Here Flexible Casting is temporarily increasing your ammount of barrel's chambers for the day and a Pearl of Power reloads one of them.
At some levels a sorcerer has enough spell points to purchase a spell slot of the next level up for which they have no slots. The multiclassing approach doesn't really work since the number of sorcery points that a sorcerer can have is capped at the number for their level. A level 5 sorcerer/3 warlock with 5 sorcery points can't expend the 2 warlock spell slots for 4 sorcery points because they are capped at 5 maximum sorcery points.
"You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level."
Spell slot costs:
1 - 2 points
2 - 3 points
3 - 5 points
4 - 6 points
5 - 7 points
A level 6 sorcerer can purchase a level 4 spell slot even though they don't have any 4th level spells.
A level 7 or 8 sorcerer can purchase a 5th level spell slot even though they don't have any 5th level spells.
In terms of the pearl of power, if the sorcerer has expended any sorcery points for a spell slot then the pearl of power can be used to create a spell slot to replace it. This also applies to a warlock of level 7+ who expends one of their 4th or 5th level slots - they will end up with a 3rd level slot that they don't normally have.
It’s been stated outright that new rules subvert old rules and so metamagic adept ignores this idea of ‘never more than what the table says for your level’. It even very specifically says on the feat that you can add it to your existing pool of sorcery points.
No, it hasn’t. You may not have more sorcery points than your level shows on the table, +2 from the feat. The feat does not remove the idea of a cap in its entirety.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You obviously can’t swap spell slots for more sorcery points than your level dictates, but you can ignore the cap for the feat. That’s what I’m getting at. It alone ignores that cap. I did specify metamagic adept, which is the name of the feat.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding folks points in general... so rather than argue with this or that conclusion, here's some truths:
That's all agreed, right?
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Looks right to me,
it also looks like the pearl of power spell slot remains until used unless I'm missing something (it says it's a new lvl 3 spell slot if you use the pearl to replenish a 4th level or higher slot) . I suspect that I'm missing a spellcasting rule or is unintended as without a mechanic setting your spell slots back to default on a long rest you could bank 3rd level spell slots.
Edit: If people want to chase this oddity down I can make a new thread since it's a tangent here.
It seems to be another way to coffeelock. A sorcerer could convert their extra expended spell slot (purchased with sorcery points) to a regular spell slot up to 3rd level using a pearl of power 1/day.
CC says
"but the Pearl of Power allows you to regain one expended spell slot. While Flexible Casting allows gaining slots you never had, you cannot regain something that you never had, and which was not already expended. Whether that means today, or ever in your life, debatable. "
I have to question the logic here. If you never had a spell slot from flexible casting then you can't use it to cast a spell since you never had it. Which makes no sense. Pearl of power does not distinguish between spell slots granted by a class feature and spell slots purchased using sorcery points. At the time of casting a spell with a spell slot purchased using sorcery points the sorcerer HAS the spell slots so it is possible for the sorcerer to regain that spell slot. The rules don't distinguish between the source of the spell slots.
So, RAW, I'd say that a sorcerer could use the pearl of power to increase the number of spell slots they have available by 1/day by using a pearl of power. Buy a spell slot using sorcery points, expend it, regain it via pearl of power. Rinse and repeat daily. (Note: the spellcasting text indicates that "You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest" - it doesn't actually say that the character's spellslots are restored to their base level, only that expended ones are regained - I might be missing it somewhere though).
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with exactly. If a 2nd level sorcerer expends its 2 sorcery points on creating a 1st-level spell slot, while still having its normal three 1st-level spell slots available, it has created a fourth 1st-level spell slot. If it tries to use a Pearl of Power at this point... nothing happens, because they haven't expended any slots. If they expend that fourth (extra) spell slot, they have expended a slot, and can use the Pearl of Power to regain it (even though they still have their normal three spell slots). Agreed?
You can't regain spell slots with Pearl of Power that you've never had (e.g., regaining a third level spell slot when you've never had a third level spell slot). I'd think it's RAI that you can't regain spell slots that you've already regained (e.g., casting a spell on Day 1, regaining it with Pearl of Power on Day 1, and then on Day 2 trying to regain it again with Pearl of Power before you've cast any more spells). But you can regain spell slots you've expended, even if they're not spell slots that are provided on your class table.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.