Update from the DM: He will allow it, but is making it DC 13 and may change it based on the situation. 2nd attempt on same enemy will be lower DC as they have seen the trick once. It becomes it's own sneak attack in this respect and I like this. Damage is also not split so I and the enemy will take the full 1d6 per 10 feet. I also can't use it on anything above medium size, but I am arguing that Goliath's racial ability may let me go one size higher. No for now. . . I likely will get the lower DC check as I have seen the trick and have practiced it.
Original Post: ----
So I read that falling onto an enemy mechanics were added to the game via Tashas.
Basically it is a DC 15 for the creature to avoid being landed on. I want to use Winged Boots to run above my opponent during my movement phase and then dive kick into them. (Adding damage and knocking them prone before attacking as normal)
If possible I want to use the boots to increase the speed to be faster than just falling and to adjust where I land as I am falling in case of a dodge. This I can't find any rules on. My thinking is that I can just take the DC15, but that I can add my acrobatics modifier score to it to make it a DC 20 if my modifier is +5.
I also wanted to try and reduce the damage I take while doing this. Using another guide I found for Purposefully Falling you should be able to fall 10 feet when prepared to do so and take no damage. Anything above 10 feet you can shave off more using an Athletics check of DC10 as listed in the guide.
So my questions: Can I used Winged Boots to increase my falling speed? Can I turn and steer while I am falling with Winged Boots? Can I reduce my own fall damage?
Be aware that much of what you are asking about is either optional rules or homebrew so is up to your DM. I help help my my interpretation of the optional rules in Tasha's and XGTE but regarding the "Common homebrew" on things like purposely falling your table will have to make up the details if they use it at all..
1. Winged boots give you a flying speed equal to your walking speed and nothing more. Using your boots you can travel no more than your walking speed (with increases for dash) this is considerably slower than falling. You can of course use your boots to gain height and then turn them off to fall.
2. My interpretation is that when the boots are active your speed in any direction (including down) can be no more than your walking speed therefore you can not steer. Some DMs might rule otherwise but whether that impacts the save DC of the creature on the ground trying to avoid you is entirely homebrew.
3. There are many ways to reduce your fall damage. Casting feather fall negates it completely A monk's slow fall, certain races like simic hybrid (that would also allow you to control your movement as you fall. if you use the Tasha's rule for faling onto a creature if the creature you fall on fails the save "any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them" If you take no damage due to an ability that gives you a soft landing (like feather fall) then there is no damage to divide evenly. Discuss it with your DM but your best bet might be to get resistance to bludgeoning damage then if the fall results in say 60 points of damage you DM is likely to split that before taking account of the resistance (so the enemy takes 30 and you take 15) There are a number of ways to get resistance such as the stoneskin spell.
I think the closest RAW option to what you're trying to do is to play a Hadozee. When they fall, they have a racial Reaction that allows them to move horizontally up to their movement speed and negates their fall damage, without affecting their fall speed. So as a Hadozee, you could fall, glide up to your movement horizontally, and if the target fails the DC 15 save, you knock them prone, deal fall damage to them while taking none, and since they're prone, you can attack them at advantage. If you have winged boots, you can use an activation to fly straight up your movement speed, instead of needing a surface to climb to drop on your foes. At 30 ft, the fall damage to your opponent would be 1/2 of 3d6, for an average of 5 damage, which is effectively free damage on top of your attacks.
If you're a Swashbuckler Rogue, you can spend each turn falling onto a foe, attacking for sneak attack damage, then flying back up out of reach, without giving the target any opportunity attacks against you. Then your target will have to use half of its movement to stand up, which means it's not getting out of your range for your next dive-bomb at the start of your next turn, and always ending your turns in the air allows you to avoid melee attacks, though Spellcasters would likely focus on you.
As for your questions about increasing falling speed and using Winged Boots to steer a fall, those are not covered in the rules, which makes them entirely classified under Homebrew, which would be between you and your DM.
Monks and reduce their fall damage, but Hadozee negates theirs' entirely.
Ok so I can still use my normal movement turn to go above the enemy and then turn them off (going for the 15DC saving throw)
Is there any magical item that would improve my speed? Maybe a cape or cloak that can give me a sudden gust of wind in the direction of my choosing?
---
Hadozee are only the size of a house cat. . . May work for attacking, but I may have a hard time knocking them prone. My current character is a Goliath Barbarian. I can be under rage and take half damage currently. I was just trying to see if there was an easy way to get it to zero damage.
Ok so I can still use my normal movement turn to go above the enemy and then turn them off (going for the 15DC saving throw)
Is there any magical item that would improve my speed? Maybe a cape or cloak that can give me a sudden gust of wind in the direction of my choosing?
Not so much for magic items. The Boots of Speed can't be used with the Winged Boots.
You could use the Mobile Feat, for a +10ft to your movement speed, and Rogues can Dash as a bonus action, which would double the height you can reach. Together those would increase your height to 80ft, for one half of 8d6 + knocked prone to your target that you free-fall dive at if they fail their DC15 save.
Right now I'm just using a 1D12 Battle Axe and getting advantage if proned to use great weapon master feat and have a decent chance of hitting with the -5 penalty.
It's not a sneak attack, but it's still a +10 damage bonus if it hits.
Dash looks really nice, but I would need to figure out a way to reduce my fall damage otherwise I need to keep it low when using the combo.
I found this video online where a guy makes a flying character to move 100ft a turn using the dual class. I'm looking to tank using bear totem subclass and jumping up and down during the fight would probably cause a lot of people target me as well.
At 5th level you get Extra Attack which maybe better than just dual classing. It looks like I also get +10 to movement.
Right now I'm just using a 1D12 Battle Axe and getting advantage if proned to use great weapon master feat and have a decent chance of hitting with the -5 penalty.
It's not a sneak attack, but it's still a +10 damage bonus if it hits.
Dash looks really nice, but I would need to figure out a way to reduce my fall damage otherwise I need to keep it low when using the combo.
I found this video online where a guy makes a flying character to move 100ft a turn using the dual class. I'm looking to tank using bear totem subclass and jumping up and down during the fight would probably cause a lot of people target me as well.
At 5th level you get Extra Attack which maybe better than just dual classing. It looks like I also get +10 to movement.
As I mentioned before, If you go with a Hadozee, your Glide allows you to as a Reaction when falling to move horizontally up to your movement speed and take no fall damage.
If you want to stick with your Great Weapon Master build, go for it. A Swashbuckler Rogue would still be my personal choice. An 80ft free-fall with Glide to a target, taking no damage and landing on your feet, while the target has to pass a DC15 save or fall prone and take an average of 14 damage from your descent, before you make your main-hand and off-hand attacks at advantage, dealing Sneak Attack damage on the first hit, scaling with your Rogue level, before flying back up 80 ft with the Mobile Feat and your bonus-action Dash on top of your regular movement, without giving your opponent the ability to make Attacks of Opportunity against you. You can crunch the numbers if you want, but I think I believe this build will overall deal more damage.
(And if you take the Slasher Feat on the Rogue build, you can use your off-hand dagger to reduce the target's speed by 10 feet, so a target who'd had 30ft base movement, has it reduced to 20 after taking the dagger's damage, and then has to use half of that to stand up, so the character can only move 10 feet from where it fell on its turn, or 30ft overall if it dashes.)
If your goal is to knock the enemy prone you just need to get 10ft above them. It is better to save the rest of your movement to stand back up from prone yourself, rather than just more damage. If your target fails their save it is an average of only 1.75 damage per 10 feet fallen.
Most effects that negate fall damage do so by preventing a free fall entirely, like Feather Fall. A Monk's Slow Fall feature might work, but it depends on the DM. A DM might rule that you roll to mitigate the fall damage before dividing it between yourself and the enemy. In that case you either mitigate all the damage and nothing happens or you both take damage and fall prone.
Most forms of forced movement like Gust take either an Action or Bonus Action. And given how little a damage difference it makes it really isn't worth it.
Even with the optional rules introduced with Xanathar's and Tasha's much of how falling works is left up to the DM. So the advice you get here can only go so far and if you have a character concept you want to try out you should speak with your DM about it.
On second look Hadozee can be Medium size, but their glide is still based on walking speed and won't trigger the falling damage. (Just like how I couldn't fly down with enough force with the boots as JegPeg mentioned. . . glide would do 0 damage to opponent and no prone)
Going prone yourself could be a bit of an issue as Fangeye mentioned . . .
A solid gliding / hit&run character is in that video I linked if anyone wants to make one still.
I will see what the DM wants to do. . . thanks guys. . . I will update the original post with what they decide.
---
Update from the DM: He will allow it, but is making it DC 13 and may change it based on the situation. 2nd attempt on same enemy will be lower DC as they have seen the trick once. It becomes it's own sneak attack in this respect and I like this. Damage is also not split so I and the enemy will take the full 1d6 per 10 feet. I also can't use it on anything above medium size, but I am arguing that Goliath's racial ability may let me go one size higher. No for now. . .
On second look Hadozee can be Medium size, but their glide is still based on walking speed and won't trigger the falling damage. (Just like how I couldn't fly down with enough force with the boots as JegPeg mentioned. . . glide would do 0 damage to opponent and no prone)
Going prone yourself could be a bit of an issue as Fangeye mentioned . . .
A solid gliding / hit&run character is in that video I linked if anyone wants to make one still.
I will see what the DM wants to do. . . thanks guys. . . I will update the original post with what they decide.
---
Update from the DM: He will allow it, but is making it DC 13 and may change it based on the situation. 2nd attempt on same enemy will be lower DC as they have seen the trick once. It becomes it's own sneak attack in this respect and I like this. Damage is also not split so I and the enemy will take the full 1d6 per 10 feet. I also can't use it on anything above medium size, but I am arguing that Goliath's racial ability may let me go one size higher. No for now. . .
That's not rules-accurate. The Hadozee's Glide ability doesn't slow down the descent at all. It's still falling and landing with the same force, it's just that when the fall damage is taken, the Hadozee lands in a way that it doesn't take it's portion of the damage. The enemy it lands on would still take the other half and be knocked prone if it fails its save. The horizontal movement doesn't affect the rules regarding the vertical fall.
The Hadozee doesn't fall prone at the end of the glide.
But as long as you and your table are happy, that's what matters.
That's not rules-accurate. The Hadozee's Glide ability doesn't slow down the descent at all. It's still falling and landing with the same force, it's just that when the fall damage is taken, the Hadozee lands in a way that it doesn't take it's portion of the damage. The enemy it lands on would still take the other half and be knocked prone if it fails its save. The horizontal movement doesn't affect the rules regarding the vertical fall.
The Hadozee doesn't fall prone at the end of the glide.
But as long as you and your table are happy, that's what matters.
Though the rule for falling is the damage is split equally, the rules are not clear what 'The damage" is in the case of the hadozee's glide. My interpretation is as the is no damage there is nothing to split, but if it is considered that there is fall damage that the hadozee is immune to then the trick does work.
On a 3rd look Hadozee need to complete the glide maneuver successfully to adjust the fall damage to zero. If you were to fall down a well and activate glide specifically you would simply crash into a wall. They are never immune to the damage.
The quick reference here is that while you can turn slowly in the air. . . . . .Gliding is not flight. and. . . . . .Parachuting is not gliding.
The crash landing is correct after turning off the winged boots for DC checks. Both you and the opponent get to roll with the attacker rolling to avoid prone alone as you can't avoid the incoming fall damage.
On the combat end if I don't have time to get up from prone I will just use the Barbarian's reckless attack to get advantage anyway.
I guess I can leave this little tidbit before I go:
On the combat end if I don't have time to get up from prone I will just use the Barbarian's reckless attack to get advantage anyway.
That doesn't work. If you have advantage from reckless and advantage from the opponent being prone but disadvantage frm being prone yourself it is a straight role
"If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage."
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Update from the DM: He will allow it, but is making it DC 13 and may change it based on the situation.
2nd attempt on same enemy will be lower DC as they have seen the trick once. It becomes it's own sneak attack in this respect and I like this.
Damage is also not split so I and the enemy will take the full 1d6 per 10 feet.
I also can't use it on anything above medium size, but I am arguing that Goliath's racial ability may let me go one size higher. No for now. . .
I likely will get the lower DC check as I have seen the trick and have practiced it.
Original Post:
----
So I read that falling onto an enemy mechanics were added to the game via Tashas.
This thread had the basic info I was going off of:
Falling on another creatures
Basically it is a DC 15 for the creature to avoid being landed on.
I want to use Winged Boots to run above my opponent during my movement phase and then dive kick into them.
(Adding damage and knocking them prone before attacking as normal)
If possible I want to use the boots to increase the speed to be faster than just falling and to adjust where I land as I am falling in case of a dodge.
This I can't find any rules on.
My thinking is that I can just take the DC15, but that I can add my acrobatics modifier score to it to make it a DC 20 if my modifier is +5.
I also wanted to try and reduce the damage I take while doing this.
Using another guide I found for Purposefully Falling you should be able to fall 10 feet when prepared to do so and take no damage.
Anything above 10 feet you can shave off more using an Athletics check of DC10 as listed in the guide.
So my questions:
Can I used Winged Boots to increase my falling speed?
Can I turn and steer while I am falling with Winged Boots?
Can I reduce my own fall damage?
Be aware that much of what you are asking about is either optional rules or homebrew so is up to your DM. I help help my my interpretation of the optional rules in Tasha's and XGTE but regarding the "Common homebrew" on things like purposely falling your table will have to make up the details if they use it at all..
1. Winged boots give you a flying speed equal to your walking speed and nothing more. Using your boots you can travel no more than your walking speed (with increases for dash) this is considerably slower than falling. You can of course use your boots to gain height and then turn them off to fall.
2. My interpretation is that when the boots are active your speed in any direction (including down) can be no more than your walking speed therefore you can not steer. Some DMs might rule otherwise but whether that impacts the save DC of the creature on the ground trying to avoid you is entirely homebrew.
3. There are many ways to reduce your fall damage. Casting feather fall negates it completely A monk's slow fall, certain races like simic hybrid (that would also allow you to control your movement as you fall. if you use the Tasha's rule for faling onto a creature if the creature you fall on fails the save "any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them" If you take no damage due to an ability that gives you a soft landing (like feather fall) then there is no damage to divide evenly. Discuss it with your DM but your best bet might be to get resistance to bludgeoning damage then if the fall results in say 60 points of damage you DM is likely to split that before taking account of the resistance (so the enemy takes 30 and you take 15) There are a number of ways to get resistance such as the stoneskin spell.
I think the closest RAW option to what you're trying to do is to play a Hadozee. When they fall, they have a racial Reaction that allows them to move horizontally up to their movement speed and negates their fall damage, without affecting their fall speed. So as a Hadozee, you could fall, glide up to your movement horizontally, and if the target fails the DC 15 save, you knock them prone, deal fall damage to them while taking none, and since they're prone, you can attack them at advantage. If you have winged boots, you can use an activation to fly straight up your movement speed, instead of needing a surface to climb to drop on your foes. At 30 ft, the fall damage to your opponent would be 1/2 of 3d6, for an average of 5 damage, which is effectively free damage on top of your attacks.
If you're a Swashbuckler Rogue, you can spend each turn falling onto a foe, attacking for sneak attack damage, then flying back up out of reach, without giving the target any opportunity attacks against you. Then your target will have to use half of its movement to stand up, which means it's not getting out of your range for your next dive-bomb at the start of your next turn, and always ending your turns in the air allows you to avoid melee attacks, though Spellcasters would likely focus on you.
As for your questions about increasing falling speed and using Winged Boots to steer a fall, those are not covered in the rules, which makes them entirely classified under Homebrew, which would be between you and your DM.
Monks and reduce their fall damage, but Hadozee negates theirs' entirely.
I hope this has been helpful.
Ok so I can still use my normal movement turn to go above the enemy and then turn them off (going for the 15DC saving throw)
Is there any magical item that would improve my speed?
Maybe a cape or cloak that can give me a sudden gust of wind in the direction of my choosing?
---
Hadozee are only the size of a house cat. . . May work for attacking, but I may have a hard time knocking them prone.
My current character is a Goliath Barbarian. I can be under rage and take half damage currently.
I was just trying to see if there was an easy way to get it to zero damage.
Not so much for magic items. The Boots of Speed can't be used with the Winged Boots.
You could use the Mobile Feat, for a +10ft to your movement speed, and Rogues can Dash as a bonus action, which would double the height you can reach. Together those would increase your height to 80ft, for one half of 8d6 + knocked prone to your target that you free-fall dive at if they fail their DC15 save.
Right now I'm just using a 1D12 Battle Axe and getting advantage if proned to use great weapon master feat and have a decent chance of hitting with the -5 penalty.
It's not a sneak attack, but it's still a +10 damage bonus if it hits.
Dash looks really nice, but I would need to figure out a way to reduce my fall damage otherwise I need to keep it low when using the combo.
I found this video online where a guy makes a flying character to move 100ft a turn using the dual class.
I'm looking to tank using bear totem subclass and jumping up and down during the fight would probably cause a lot of people target me as well.
At 5th level you get Extra Attack which maybe better than just dual classing. It looks like I also get +10 to movement.
As I mentioned before, If you go with a Hadozee, your Glide allows you to as a Reaction when falling to move horizontally up to your movement speed and take no fall damage.
If you want to stick with your Great Weapon Master build, go for it. A Swashbuckler Rogue would still be my personal choice. An 80ft free-fall with Glide to a target, taking no damage and landing on your feet, while the target has to pass a DC15 save or fall prone and take an average of 14 damage from your descent, before you make your main-hand and off-hand attacks at advantage, dealing Sneak Attack damage on the first hit, scaling with your Rogue level, before flying back up 80 ft with the Mobile Feat and your bonus-action Dash on top of your regular movement, without giving your opponent the ability to make Attacks of Opportunity against you. You can crunch the numbers if you want, but I think I believe this build will overall deal more damage.
(And if you take the Slasher Feat on the Rogue build, you can use your off-hand dagger to reduce the target's speed by 10 feet, so a target who'd had 30ft base movement, has it reduced to 20 after taking the dagger's damage, and then has to use half of that to stand up, so the character can only move 10 feet from where it fell on its turn, or 30ft overall if it dashes.)
If your goal is to knock the enemy prone you just need to get 10ft above them. It is better to save the rest of your movement to stand back up from prone yourself, rather than just more damage. If your target fails their save it is an average of only 1.75 damage per 10 feet fallen.
Most effects that negate fall damage do so by preventing a free fall entirely, like Feather Fall. A Monk's Slow Fall feature might work, but it depends on the DM. A DM might rule that you roll to mitigate the fall damage before dividing it between yourself and the enemy. In that case you either mitigate all the damage and nothing happens or you both take damage and fall prone.
Most forms of forced movement like Gust take either an Action or Bonus Action. And given how little a damage difference it makes it really isn't worth it.
Even with the optional rules introduced with Xanathar's and Tasha's much of how falling works is left up to the DM. So the advice you get here can only go so far and if you have a character concept you want to try out you should speak with your DM about it.
On second look Hadozee can be Medium size, but their glide is still based on walking speed and won't trigger the falling damage.
(Just like how I couldn't fly down with enough force with the boots as JegPeg mentioned. . . glide would do 0 damage to opponent and no prone)
Going prone yourself could be a bit of an issue as Fangeye mentioned . . .
A solid gliding / hit&run character is in that video I linked if anyone wants to make one still.
I will see what the DM wants to do. . . thanks guys. . . I will update the original post with what they decide.
---
Update from the DM: He will allow it, but is making it DC 13 and may change it based on the situation.
2nd attempt on same enemy will be lower DC as they have seen the trick once. It becomes it's own sneak attack in this respect and I like this.
Damage is also not split so I and the enemy will take the full 1d6 per 10 feet.
I also can't use it on anything above medium size, but I am arguing that Goliath's racial ability may let me go one size higher. No for now. . .
That's not rules-accurate. The Hadozee's Glide ability doesn't slow down the descent at all. It's still falling and landing with the same force, it's just that when the fall damage is taken, the Hadozee lands in a way that it doesn't take it's portion of the damage. The enemy it lands on would still take the other half and be knocked prone if it fails its save. The horizontal movement doesn't affect the rules regarding the vertical fall.
The Hadozee doesn't fall prone at the end of the glide.
But as long as you and your table are happy, that's what matters.
Though the rule for falling is the damage is split equally, the rules are not clear what 'The damage" is in the case of the hadozee's glide. My interpretation is as the is no damage there is nothing to split, but if it is considered that there is fall damage that the hadozee is immune to then the trick does work.
Looks like the dm has gone for a compromise.
On a 3rd look Hadozee need to complete the glide maneuver successfully to adjust the fall damage to zero.
If you were to fall down a well and activate glide specifically you would simply crash into a wall. They are never immune to the damage.
The quick reference here is that while you can turn slowly in the air. . .
. . .Gliding is not flight.
and. . .
. . .Parachuting is not gliding.
The crash landing is correct after turning off the winged boots for DC checks.
Both you and the opponent get to roll with the attacker rolling to avoid prone alone as you can't avoid the incoming fall damage.
On the combat end if I don't have time to get up from prone I will just use the Barbarian's reckless attack to get advantage anyway.
I guess I can leave this little tidbit before I go:
That doesn't work. If you have advantage from reckless and advantage from the opponent being prone but disadvantage frm being prone yourself it is a straight role
"If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage."