Yesterday I had a halfling player roll with advantage on initiative and got a 1 and a 2. He claimed his halfling luck would let him reroll the lower number. I allowed it because I didn't want to go down a rules rabbit hole, but was this correct? It feels like it is but curious if anyone here has a reason it wouldn't be.
It states that you can reroll a 1 on a d20 test, but the result of that roll was actually a 2. So no dice. However, it comes up so seldomly that there is probably no reason to not allow it. Elven Accuracy gives a third die on ADV attack rolls and those can come up nearly every round.
The ruling was incorrect, with advantage you always take the higher, the 1 doesn't count, because that was the lower die. I would advise that next time you play, acknowledge your error, but state that in future you won't be ruling that way. The existence of Elven Accuracy is irrelevant.
EDIT: I was incorrect in part, the text does say if you have advantage or disadvantage and something lets you replace or reroll a die, you can choose which die to reroll. However, I don't think initiative fits the criteria to count as a d20 Test, so you can't use Halfling Luck on it.
It states that you can reroll a 1 on a d20 test, but the result of that roll was actually a 2. So no dice.
I agree with this. For any D20 test:
Roll 1d20. You always want to roll high. If the roll has Advantage or Disadvantage (described later in this chapter), you roll two d20s, but you use the number from only one of them—the higher one if you have Advantage or the lower one if you have Disadvantage.
You only use one of the dice and that die becomes "the d20 of a D20 Test". You also don't get to choose which die you will use -- you always use the higher one when you roll with Advantage.
I wouldn't actually call it as clear-cut. The standard rules for Interactions with Rerolls do allow you to reroll your choice of dice, though it's not clear when the trigger is evaluated.
I wouldn't actually call it as clear-cut. The standard rules for Interactions with Rerolls do allow you to reroll your choice of dice, though it's not clear when the trigger is evaluated.
Actually, that's pretty convincing.
When you have Advantage or Disadvantage and something in the game lets you reroll or replace the d20, you can reroll or replace only one die, not both. You choose which one.
When the outcome of an action is uncertain, the game uses a d20 roll to determine success or failure. These rolls are called d20 Tests, and they come in three kinds: ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls. They follow these steps:
Halfling luck works on all D20 tests. Initiative often uses a d20 but tecnically isn't a d20 test, as it is not an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll.
When the outcome of an action is uncertain, the game uses a d20 roll to determine success or failure. These rolls are called d20 Tests, and they come in three kinds: ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls. They follow these steps:
Halfling luck works on all D20 tests. Initiative often uses a d20 but tecnically isn't a d20 test, as it is not an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll.
Initiative is defined as a Dexterity check in the 2024 Player's Handbook.
Initiative is defined as a Dexterity check in the 2024 Player's Handbook.
However, the description of Ability Checks says they have a DC associated with them, and Initiative does not. The section also has the text "The DM and the rules often call for an ability check when a creature attempts something other than an attack that has a chance of meaningful failure," and I don't think initiative counts as that either.
Initiative is defined as a Dexterity check in the 2024 Player's Handbook.
However, the description of Ability Checks says they have a DC associated with them, and Initiative does not. The section also has the text "The DM and the rules often call for an ability check when a creature attempts something other than an attack that has a chance of meaningful failure," and I don't think initiative counts as that either.
That just seems like a “specific beats general” thing to me.
When the outcome of an action is uncertain, the game uses a d20 roll to determine success or failure. These rolls are called d20 Tests, and they come in three kinds: ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls. They follow these steps:
Halfling luck works on all D20 tests. Initiative often uses a d20 but tecnically isn't a d20 test, as it is not an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll.
Initiative is defined as a Dexterity check in the 2024 Player's Handbook.
Can you point to a spot in the book that specifically calls it an ability check? The book defines your Initiative score as 10+Dexterity, but nowhere can I find the book call initiative an ability check.
Can you point to a spot in the book that specifically calls it an ability check? The book defines your Initiative score as 10+Dexterity, but nowhere can I find the book call initiative an ability check.
Sure. Under Initiative: "When combat starts, every participant rolls Initiative; they make a Dexterity check that determines their place in the Initiative order."
The rules glossary defines an ability check as a d20 test (a d20 roll) that uses one of the six abilities or an associated skill. Initiating meets that definition as a d20 roll using your dexterity ability.
The rules for initiative in chapter 1 define it as a dexterity check.
And the rules glossary states that advantage and disadvantage apply to d20 tests, as does chapter 1. Everything indicates that initiative is an ability check, just as it was in the 2014 rules.
Yesterday I had a halfling player roll with advantage on initiative and got a 1 and a 2. He claimed his halfling luck would let him reroll the lower number. I allowed it because I didn't want to go down a rules rabbit hole, but was this correct? It feels like it is but curious if anyone here has a reason it wouldn't be.
Thanks everyone! It "felt" right to me but I was relying on my intuition. This seems to support that the ruling was correct. Appreciate the thoughtful discussion!
Thanks everyone! It "felt" right to me but I was relying on my intuition. This seems to support that the ruling was correct. Appreciate the thoughtful discussion!
When I judged HeroClix tournaments, there was a rule that is useful for D&D too. It was essentially, that during a tournament (gaming session), if the judge (DM/GM) makes an incorrect ruling, it is correct for the tournament (gaming session) and can be discussed afterwards.
It can give a little extra nudge about making judgements that keep the game moving.
Thanks everyone! It "felt" right to me but I was relying on my intuition. This seems to support that the ruling was correct. Appreciate the thoughtful discussion!
When I judged HeroClix tournaments, there was a rule that is useful for D&D too. It was essentially, that during a tournament (gaming session), if the judge (DM/GM) makes an incorrect ruling, it is correct for the tournament (gaming session) and can be discussed afterwards.
It can give a little extra nudge about making judgements that keep the game moving.
Nice advice.
I also appreciate this comment in the 2024 DMG:
It’s OK to Make Mistakes. If you overlook or misrepresent something, correct yourself and move on. No one expects you to memorize every rule or detail. Even if you don’t realize your mistake until after a game session is over, it’s OK to acknowledge the mistake at the start of the next session and make adjustments moving forward.
Yesterday I had a halfling player roll with advantage on initiative and got a 1 and a 2. He claimed his halfling luck would let him reroll the lower number. I allowed it because I didn't want to go down a rules rabbit hole, but was this correct? It feels like it is but curious if anyone here has a reason it wouldn't be.
It states that you can reroll a 1 on a d20 test, but the result of that roll was actually a 2. So no dice. However, it comes up so seldomly that there is probably no reason to not allow it. Elven Accuracy gives a third die on ADV attack rolls and those can come up nearly every round.
The ruling was incorrect, with advantage you always take the higher, the 1 doesn't count, because that was the lower die. I would advise that next time you play, acknowledge your error, but state that in future you won't be ruling that way. The existence of Elven Accuracy is irrelevant.
EDIT: I was incorrect in part, the text does say if you have advantage or disadvantage and something lets you replace or reroll a die, you can choose which die to reroll. However, I don't think initiative fits the criteria to count as a d20 Test, so you can't use Halfling Luck on it.
I agree with this. For any D20 test:
You only use one of the dice and that die becomes "the d20 of a D20 Test". You also don't get to choose which die you will use -- you always use the higher one when you roll with Advantage.
I wouldn't actually call it as clear-cut. The standard rules for Interactions with Rerolls do allow you to reroll your choice of dice, though it's not clear when the trigger is evaluated.
Actually, that's pretty convincing.
I stand corrected.
Halfling luck works on all D20 tests. Initiative often uses a d20 but tecnically isn't a d20 test, as it is not an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll.
Initiative is defined as a Dexterity check in the 2024 Player's Handbook.
pronouns: he/she/they
However, the description of Ability Checks says they have a DC associated with them, and Initiative does not. The section also has the text "The DM and the rules often call for an ability check when a creature attempts something other than an attack that has a chance of meaningful failure," and I don't think initiative counts as that either.
That just seems like a “specific beats general” thing to me.
pronouns: he/she/they
Can you point to a spot in the book that specifically calls it an ability check? The book defines your Initiative score as 10+Dexterity, but nowhere can I find the book call initiative an ability check.
Sure. Under Initiative: "When combat starts, every participant rolls Initiative; they make a Dexterity check that determines their place in the Initiative order."
The rules glossary defines an ability check as a d20 test (a d20 roll) that uses one of the six abilities or an associated skill. Initiating meets that definition as a d20 roll using your dexterity ability.
The rules for initiative in chapter 1 define it as a dexterity check.
And the rules glossary states that advantage and disadvantage apply to d20 tests, as does chapter 1. Everything indicates that initiative is an ability check, just as it was in the 2014 rules.
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It was correct. There is a related thread here: Heroic Inspiration and Advantage.
Regarding Initiative as a d20 Test: Is initiative a d20 Test per the 2024 DND Rules? (yes, as mentioned above)
Thanks everyone! It "felt" right to me but I was relying on my intuition. This seems to support that the ruling was correct. Appreciate the thoughtful discussion!
When I judged HeroClix tournaments, there was a rule that is useful for D&D too. It was essentially, that during a tournament (gaming session), if the judge (DM/GM) makes an incorrect ruling, it is correct for the tournament (gaming session) and can be discussed afterwards.
It can give a little extra nudge about making judgements that keep the game moving.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Nice advice.
I also appreciate this comment in the 2024 DMG: