We were running a tavern brawl style side story in our campaign and our DM used some kind of mob creature stat block (I'm not sure where from) but essentially just acted like a large creature. I cast the disintegrate spell on the floor below this mob, which removes a 10 foot cube from the floor. The mob falls into this pit, which has 10 foot high walls. The DM ruled it as the mob had no way of climbing out and allowed us to just wail on them like shooting fish in a barrel. I later told this story online, to much backlash about how the mob could have just climbed out of the hole and it was a poor ruling by the DM. I've looked through some rules and I can't find anything RAW that gives an answer for this. Some people say you can climb a wall no matter what at half speed, but that sounds dumb and RAW sounds like climbing a smooth wall unassisted is not possible. Some argued that the disintegrate spell would not leave a smooth surface but instead one that is rough enough to climb, RAW states nothing about this. What do you guys think about this?
The rules don't come into play here, it's pure DM adjudication. The rules don't specify how possible it is to climb a given surface, that's something the DM decides. If the DM, in the moment, decided that the four vertical walls created by the effects of the spell were unclimbable, they're unclimbable. The opinions of folks on the internet are worthless.
I agree with Davyd. There's no rule for this, only a ruling by DM. I think your DM's ruling could make perfect sense in the right circumstances.
As a DM, I would take into account the type of material in question. If it was loosed dirt, the monster would likely be able to climb out since the walls would at least partially collapse. If it was solid stone, I could see it being a smooth surface with no purchase for climbing.
Personally, I would imagine that the texture of the Disintegrated material provides some hand holds, but it would be a very hard climb.
Again, this would be entirely context dependent. Disintegrated stone would like leave a completely smooth surface. Clay-rich compacted by weight from a building might be mostly smooth but not perfectly so. Loose soil could slide down and sand might collapse entirely. The only wrong answer would be to prescribe a one-size-fits-all answer surely?
I do agree the DM ruling is all that matters as far as climb ability. But I’m kind of surprised they didn’t think of the creatures boosting each other, standing on others shoulders, then the people out pulling up the people still in, etc.
I wonder if maybe the DM just thought it was a clever use of a high level spell and just gave the party the win. Or they quickly imagined the scenario of trying to run the mob coming out of the hole 1-3 at a time would make them too weak to present a challenge. So they just decided to move things along quickly. Which, to me, sounds like good DMing.
It depends on the stat block of the monster. If the monster is a Large size category creature, then yes, it should be able to climb out of a 10' hole fairly easily. But climbing would be its action for that round, so it wouldn't be attacking the party for that round. If the monster has a climbing speed or a flying speed, then it would very easily be able to climb out just by using its movement, and could then make a full attack action against the party. Maybe if the monster had suffered some specific kind of damage, like if one limb had been blown off or something, then I might go so far as to require it to pass a moderate DC Athletics check to see if it can climb out successfully.
But in general, yeah, a Large creature can climb out of a 10' deep hole fairly easily.
It depends on the stat block of the monster. If the monster is a Large size category creature, then yes, it should be able to climb out of a 10' hole fairly easily. But climbing would be its action for that round, so it wouldn't be attacking the party for that round.
Climbing isn't an action (RAW by default), it's a movement type. By default it's 2 feet of movement used for every 1 foot travelled unless the monster has a climb speed. Additionally the DM may call for an ability check based on the surface, but that still doesn't use an action (RAW by default)
If the monster has a climbing speed or a flying speed, then it would very easily be able to climb out just by using its movement, and could then make a full attack action against the party. Maybe if the monster had suffered some specific kind of damage, like if one limb had been blown off or something, then I might go so far as to require it to pass a moderate DC Athletics check to see if it can climb out successfully.
But in general, yeah, a Large creature can climb out of a 10' deep hole fairly easily.
A creature being large doesn't mean they're 10' big (in any specific direction)*. For example, a horse is large, but they wouldn't be able to climb a 10-foot vertical surface, whereas a brown bear might. Size category represents the area in combat a monster controls (can defend and attack within).
10 foot high wall is not hard to attain with a jump. For example, a Commoner (STR 10) that move 10 feet can make a 3 feet High Jump. Since you can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump to reach a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 1½ times your height, a 6 foot tall creature means it can reach 10-12 feet, enought to reach the ledge of the hole and drag itself out.
I kind of agree with the DM. As a general rule I'd view a disintegrate effect to be surgically smooth cut. Now some materials may be soft enough it would not remain that way under its own weight, or bumpy enough even a perfect 10 by 10 by 10 cut would be bumpy as it dips deeper etc, or be soft enough people can make handholds with basic tools quickly. You might be able to jump and pull out of it, but 10 feet is the rim of a basketball hoop and most people can't dunk. And even if you can finger tip grab it I suspect the people up top could so easily knock them back down it might be irrelevant. But there are no hard rules on this.
A bar fight with a large mob of creatures drunk that fall is a 10 feet hole only to be unable to get out while attacked from above is a great way finish it!
You asked for RAW well someone 6 feet tall can make a standing long jump to reach 10 feet and pull itself up with no check required unless to jump farther. DM can always impose one.
But to shut it down as impossible seem harsh. For sure as DM i would not tell characters in similar situation that they can't jump or climb out of a 10 feet hole without even a check nothing.
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We were running a tavern brawl style side story in our campaign and our DM used some kind of mob creature stat block (I'm not sure where from) but essentially just acted like a large creature. I cast the disintegrate spell on the floor below this mob, which removes a 10 foot cube from the floor. The mob falls into this pit, which has 10 foot high walls. The DM ruled it as the mob had no way of climbing out and allowed us to just wail on them like shooting fish in a barrel. I later told this story online, to much backlash about how the mob could have just climbed out of the hole and it was a poor ruling by the DM. I've looked through some rules and I can't find anything RAW that gives an answer for this. Some people say you can climb a wall no matter what at half speed, but that sounds dumb and RAW sounds like climbing a smooth wall unassisted is not possible. Some argued that the disintegrate spell would not leave a smooth surface but instead one that is rough enough to climb, RAW states nothing about this. What do you guys think about this?
The rules don't come into play here, it's pure DM adjudication. The rules don't specify how possible it is to climb a given surface, that's something the DM decides. If the DM, in the moment, decided that the four vertical walls created by the effects of the spell were unclimbable, they're unclimbable. The opinions of folks on the internet are worthless.
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I agree with Davyd. There's no rule for this, only a ruling by DM. I think your DM's ruling could make perfect sense in the right circumstances.
As a DM, I would take into account the type of material in question. If it was loosed dirt, the monster would likely be able to climb out since the walls would at least partially collapse. If it was solid stone, I could see it being a smooth surface with no purchase for climbing.
Personally, I would imagine that the texture of the Disintegrated material provides some hand holds, but it would be a very hard climb.
Again, this would be entirely context dependent. Disintegrated stone would like leave a completely smooth surface. Clay-rich compacted by weight from a building might be mostly smooth but not perfectly so. Loose soil could slide down and sand might collapse entirely. The only wrong answer would be to prescribe a one-size-fits-all answer surely?
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I do agree the DM ruling is all that matters as far as climb ability. But I’m kind of surprised they didn’t think of the creatures boosting each other, standing on others shoulders, then the people out pulling up the people still in, etc.
I wonder if maybe the DM just thought it was a clever use of a high level spell and just gave the party the win. Or they quickly imagined the scenario of trying to run the mob coming out of the hole 1-3 at a time would make them too weak to present a challenge. So they just decided to move things along quickly. Which, to me, sounds like good DMing.
Insufficient Data.
It depends on the stat block of the monster. If the monster is a Large size category creature, then yes, it should be able to climb out of a 10' hole fairly easily. But climbing would be its action for that round, so it wouldn't be attacking the party for that round. If the monster has a climbing speed or a flying speed, then it would very easily be able to climb out just by using its movement, and could then make a full attack action against the party. Maybe if the monster had suffered some specific kind of damage, like if one limb had been blown off or something, then I might go so far as to require it to pass a moderate DC Athletics check to see if it can climb out successfully.
But in general, yeah, a Large creature can climb out of a 10' deep hole fairly easily.
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Climbing isn't an action (RAW by default), it's a movement type. By default it's 2 feet of movement used for every 1 foot travelled unless the monster has a climb speed. Additionally the DM may call for an ability check based on the surface, but that still doesn't use an action (RAW by default)
A creature being large doesn't mean they're 10' big (in any specific direction)*. For example, a horse is large, but they wouldn't be able to climb a 10-foot vertical surface, whereas a brown bear might. Size category represents the area in combat a monster controls (can defend and attack within).
*gelatinous cube being the obvious exception
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10 foot high wall is not hard to attain with a jump. For example, a Commoner (STR 10) that move 10 feet can make a 3 feet High Jump. Since you can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump to reach a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 1½ times your height, a 6 foot tall creature means it can reach 10-12 feet, enought to reach the ledge of the hole and drag itself out.
DM can even allow a Strength (Athletics) check to Jump farther than normal.
I kind of agree with the DM. As a general rule I'd view a disintegrate effect to be surgically smooth cut. Now some materials may be soft enough it would not remain that way under its own weight, or bumpy enough even a perfect 10 by 10 by 10 cut would be bumpy as it dips deeper etc, or be soft enough people can make handholds with basic tools quickly. You might be able to jump and pull out of it, but 10 feet is the rim of a basketball hoop and most people can't dunk. And even if you can finger tip grab it I suspect the people up top could so easily knock them back down it might be irrelevant. But there are no hard rules on this.
A bar fight with a large mob of creatures drunk that fall is a 10 feet hole only to be unable to get out while attacked from above is a great way finish it!
You asked for RAW well someone 6 feet tall can make a standing long jump to reach 10 feet and pull itself up with no check required unless to jump farther. DM can always impose one.
But to shut it down as impossible seem harsh. For sure as DM i would not tell characters in similar situation that they can't jump or climb out of a 10 feet hole without even a check nothing.