If i use replicate magic item to create a spell wrought tattoo of say, Shield. When is the infusion consumed? When the needle is consumed or after the spell is used? Just wondering where y'all fall on this thought. I think that it get's consumed when the needle is consumed thus reopening the infusion slot for more shenanigans . LOL
If i use replicate magic item to create a spell wrought tattoo of say, Shield. When is the infusion consumed? When the needle is consumed or after the spell is used? Just wondering where y'all fall on this thought. I think that it get's consumed when the needle is consumed thus reopening the infusion slot for more shenanigans . LOL
1) it's not at all clear that a spellwrought tattoo infusion is really allowed --- at least, there are no rules or guidelines about just what spells can be used. It's possible it was "meant" to be excluded along with potion and scroll infusions.
2) assuming the infusion is ok at all, it being "consumed" would not "free up" the slot, at least not immediately. You can't make another until after the next long rest. (but, since it's arguably true that the infusion is a needle, it's essentially "consumed" when the tattoo is made.)
RAW: "Alternatively, you can choose the magic item from among the common magic items in the game, not including potions or scrolls." A spell wrought tattoo while functioning the same as a scroll, simply put. Is not a scroll. With that being said, I understand not regaining the infusion slot until the following morning. But if we have a weekend of "downtime" I could spell wrought find familiar Saturday morning, then shield the Sunday morning, then I could switch it to a bag of holding or boots of elven kind or something else useful Monday morning before the adventuring work week began. Then would have a familiar, and a free cast of shield to save one hit AND an extra magic item of use. Having the shield tattoo on my skin at the same time as having a different magic item replicated is my real reason for questioning when the infusion is considered consumed.
But if we have a weekend of "downtime" I could spell wrought find familiar Saturday morning, then shield the Sunday morning, then I could switch it to a bag of holding or boots of elven kind or something else useful Monday morning before the adventuring work week began. Then would have a familiar, and a free cast of shield to save one hit AND an extra magic item of use. Having the shield tattoo on my skin at the same time as having a different magic item replicated is my real reason for questioning when the infusion is considered consumed.
I believe the "standard" shenanigans (which maybe also goes to show that this wasn't intended) is to make a Find Familiar tattoo every day, and eventually outfit every PC, NPC, awakened shrub (use another infusion slot for a Pot of Awakening...), etc. with a free (no material cost) familiar.
...there are no guideline on just what spell you could tattoo (just like there would be none for what scrolls you can produce), so there's no limit, other than spell level, on using it for "free" versions of spells, non-artificer spells, spells that particular artificer doesn't know, etc.
AAAHHH but that is also covered in the rules. Since you can only replicate a common item if it isn't specifically listed. Which limits you to level one spells. Really glad we could get you to 667 posts LOL. What i listed above is as far as i want to push my game breaking LOL. That's why i am trying to figure out when the infusion would end, Needle into tattoo or tattoo into magic. HAHAHAHA
Edit, I completely looked over you mentioning Spell level. My bad.
Honestly I suspect that the tattoos remaining an option is an oversight in the design; potions and scrolls are magic item categories and have the strongest consumable effects. Spellwrought Tattoos were not a thing when Artificer was first written (Ebberon: Rising from the Last War), and so there was no need for any further language, and then in TCoE when Artificer was republished and the tattoos were introduced no one considered that the letter of one allows a player to violate the spirit of the other. Regardless, Replicate Magic Item Infusions are all separate specific Infusions, so frankly I'd argue that you have to pick what specific spell tattoo you're using when you take the infusion and that's locked in until you take another Artificer level, at which point you could swap it out per the feature's rules.
I would be fine with that limit on known infusions. How ever, it still doesn't answer when does that infusion become, no longer an infusion? When the needle becomes tattoo or when the tattoo becomes magic?
I would be fine with that limit on known infusions. How ever, it still doesn't answer when does that infusion become, no longer an infusion? When the needle becomes tattoo or when the tattoo becomes magic?
For the purpose of your "Infused Items" count? I'd say it takes up a slot from the time you make the needle until the spell is expended, otherwise it's a cheese way to get around the limit.
If the spell has been cast, the infusion has essentially "ended." Ending the infusion won't dispel the familiar or whatever (but it would cause the tattoo to fade, or whatever, if it hadn't been cast yet).
Cheese yes, how ever isn't the spell wrought tattoos magical item the needle itself during creation? So if the needle is gone the infusion would be gone no?
Cheese yes, how ever isn't the spell wrought tattoos magical item the needle itself during creation? So if the needle is gone the infusion would be gone no?
"The needle turns into ink that becomes the tattoo, which appears on the skin in whatever design you like."
But then, "The tattoo glows faintly while you cast the spell and for the spell’s duration. Once the spell ends, the tattoo vanishes from your skin." so maybe ending the infusion also ends the spell.
But these are uncharted waters, and if this was supposed to be a supported "system" they wouldn't be.
Cheese yes, how ever isn't the spell wrought tattoos magical item the needle itself during creation? So if the needle is gone the infusion would be gone no?
Watsonian answer: no, because the magic of the infusion is still stored until you use the effect. Doylist answer: no because you're still getting the benefit of the infusion.
I love some reasonable answers. Which y'all are for sure providing. As for DND supporting it, good luck running an artificer In DND beyond only half the things you do are supported :(
If you consider a spellwrought tattoo to be allowed at all (since potions and scrolls are not), I would rule that you can only have one available to activate at a time - that making another would poof all the magic effects or existence of any previous ones. You could make another after a long rest, but I would say also in the spirit of how all the other Replicate Magic Item infusions work, I'd probably obligate you to choose a single spell for it when you chose the tattoo (ie at level-up).
If you make it in this way, it's still a pretty neat item - you could have a single daily charge of say cure wounds (and you could give it to someone who cannot otherwise cast that spell).
You could also use it to make a Tattoo of Disguise with one charge a day. A Hat of Disguise, though, is an uncommon item, not a common one. The Hat of Disguise is not limited in its charges, and can be changed during the day to any person - is that enough of a difference?
Perhaps another broken part is that you don't seem to be limited to spells that you currently know to make one, that you could use any cantrip or first level spell from any list. I think that's another area to consider for restrictions, but then maybe if you have to know the same spell for the duration of your level, it's not so problematic.
On the topic of Spellwrought Tattoos, a few questions:
1) I presume you can use the needle and create the Tattoo on your skin and then there is no time limit for how long the tattoo remains until used?
2) Using the Tattoo is similar to casting the spell, as far as casting time and so on is concerned?
3) Is there any penalty for using a Tattoo containing a spell you cannot normally cast as there is with using a scroll containing a spell you cannot normally cast?
On the topic of Spellwrought Tattoos, a few questions:
1) I presume you can use the needle and create the Tattoo on your skin and then there is no time limit for how long the tattoo remains until used?
2) Using the Tattoo is similar to casting the spell, as far as casting time and so on is concerned?
3) Is there any penalty for using a Tattoo containing a spell you cannot normally cast as there is with using a scroll containing a spell you cannot normally cast?
1. Correct.
2. Mostly. The spell's casting time, duration, and effects are the same as casting the spell normally. However, the spell does not have any material components even if it normally would. (Under the 2024 rules it doesn't have verbal or somatic components either). Also, the spellcasting ability modifier and save DC are specified in the item description and depend on the level of the spell (not on any of the user's stats).
3. No. The only limitation is that tattoos can only contain spells up to level 5.
The tattoo is the magic item being replicated. It remains until the spell is cast or a different plan is replicated.
I think base rules say you can only make one instance of any given plan. Like you can have a bag of holding plan, and you can replicate only one of them. You cant print them and hand them out to the party
This holds for most spell storing items. So, i think you could only replicate one tattoo.
You can only have 2 instances of plans active at a time at lower levels. So there couldnt be too much shennanigans if your dm allowed 2 tattoos with, say, 2 different spells.
I think the spells have to be on your artificer spell list? That i dont remember. So, if you want shield, i think you have to be the artificer subclass with the mechanical dog. I think theyre the onky subclass that gets shield.
I know for the spell storing item at level 10, it only works with your artificer spells
The tattoo is the magic item being replicated. It remains until the spell is cast or a different plan is replicated.
I think base rules say you can only make one instance of any given plan. Like you can have a bag of holding plan, and you can replicate only one of them. You cant print them and hand them out to the party
This holds for most spell storing items. So, i think you could only replicate one tattoo.
You can only have 2 instances of plans active at a time at lower levels. So there couldnt be too much shennanigans if your dm allowed 2 tattoos with, say, 2 different spells.
I think the spells have to be on your artificer spell list? That i dont remember. So, if you want shield, i think you have to be the artificer subclass with the mechanical dog. I think theyre the onky subclass that gets shield.
I know for the spell storing item at level 10, it only works with your artificer spells
Bear in mind that the original discussion in this thread was more than a year ago, before the release of the updated Artificer content.
In the context of the updated rules, tattoos do seem to be allowed, though a strict reading of the rules would say you can only have one spellwrought tattoo at a time. There is definitely no requirement that the spells involved be Artificer spells. However, it also seems like the intent of the rules is that things like this shouldn't be allowed at all, especially since scrolls are explicitly excluded, so it would be reasonable for a DM to rule that you can't have plans for them.
"There is definitely no requirement that the spells involved be Artificer spells"
Thats a bit odd.
To craft a scroll, you have to have the spell prepared every day you are crafting it.
If you craft an enspelled magic item, rules says
"If a magic item allows its user to cast any spells from it, you must have all those spells prepared every day you spend crafting the item."
Its kinda weird that artificer tattoos end run that restriction
The Artificer's replicated magic items don't have anything to do with the normal magic item crafting rules and aren't intended to be limited by the restrictions of those rules.
That said, I agree that this specific case is weird; it certainly seems like the tattoos from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything were overlooked when designing this feature. As I said, since they're so similar to scrolls and scrolls are explicitly excluded from being replicated with the Artificer features, it's likely that the intent is for spellwrought tattoos to be excluded as well, and that's how I'd probably rule it if it came up at my table.
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If i use replicate magic item to create a spell wrought tattoo of say, Shield. When is the infusion consumed? When the needle is consumed or after the spell is used? Just wondering where y'all fall on this thought. I think that it get's consumed when the needle is consumed thus reopening the infusion slot for more shenanigans . LOL
1) it's not at all clear that a spellwrought tattoo infusion is really allowed --- at least, there are no rules or guidelines about just what spells can be used. It's possible it was "meant" to be excluded along with potion and scroll infusions.
2) assuming the infusion is ok at all, it being "consumed" would not "free up" the slot, at least not immediately. You can't make another until after the next long rest. (but, since it's arguably true that the infusion is a needle, it's essentially "consumed" when the tattoo is made.)
RAW: "Alternatively, you can choose the magic item from among the common magic items in the game, not including potions or scrolls." A spell wrought tattoo while functioning the same as a scroll, simply put. Is not a scroll. With that being said, I understand not regaining the infusion slot until the following morning. But if we have a weekend of "downtime" I could spell wrought find familiar Saturday morning, then shield the Sunday morning, then I could switch it to a bag of holding or boots of elven kind or something else useful Monday morning before the adventuring work week began. Then would have a familiar, and a free cast of shield to save one hit AND an extra magic item of use. Having the shield tattoo on my skin at the same time as having a different magic item replicated is my real reason for questioning when the infusion is considered consumed.
I believe the "standard" shenanigans (which maybe also goes to show that this wasn't intended) is to make a Find Familiar tattoo every day, and eventually outfit every PC, NPC, awakened shrub (use another infusion slot for a Pot of Awakening...), etc. with a free (no material cost) familiar.
...there are no guideline on just what spell you could tattoo (just like there would be none for what scrolls you can produce), so there's no limit, other than spell level, on using it for "free" versions of spells, non-artificer spells, spells that particular artificer doesn't know, etc.
AAAHHH but that is also covered in the rules. Since you can only replicate a common item if it isn't specifically listed. Which limits you to level one spells. Really glad we could get you to 667 posts LOL. What i listed above is as far as i want to push my game breaking LOL. That's why i am trying to figure out when the infusion would end, Needle into tattoo or tattoo into magic. HAHAHAHA
Edit, I completely looked over you mentioning Spell level. My bad.
Honestly I suspect that the tattoos remaining an option is an oversight in the design; potions and scrolls are magic item categories and have the strongest consumable effects. Spellwrought Tattoos were not a thing when Artificer was first written (Ebberon: Rising from the Last War), and so there was no need for any further language, and then in TCoE when Artificer was republished and the tattoos were introduced no one considered that the letter of one allows a player to violate the spirit of the other. Regardless, Replicate Magic Item Infusions are all separate specific Infusions, so frankly I'd argue that you have to pick what specific spell tattoo you're using when you take the infusion and that's locked in until you take another Artificer level, at which point you could swap it out per the feature's rules.
I would be fine with that limit on known infusions. How ever, it still doesn't answer when does that infusion become, no longer an infusion? When the needle becomes tattoo or when the tattoo becomes magic?
For the purpose of your "Infused Items" count? I'd say it takes up a slot from the time you make the needle until the spell is expended, otherwise it's a cheese way to get around the limit.
If the spell has been cast, the infusion has essentially "ended." Ending the infusion won't dispel the familiar or whatever (but it would cause the tattoo to fade, or whatever, if it hadn't been cast yet).
Cheese yes, how ever isn't the spell wrought tattoos magical item the needle itself during creation? So if the needle is gone the infusion would be gone no?
"The needle turns into ink that becomes the tattoo, which appears on the skin in whatever design you like."
But then, "The tattoo glows faintly while you cast the spell and for the spell’s duration. Once the spell ends, the tattoo vanishes from your skin." so maybe ending the infusion also ends the spell.
But these are uncharted waters, and if this was supposed to be a supported "system" they wouldn't be.
Watsonian answer: no, because the magic of the infusion is still stored until you use the effect. Doylist answer: no because you're still getting the benefit of the infusion.
I love some reasonable answers. Which y'all are for sure providing. As for DND supporting it, good luck running an artificer In DND beyond only half the things you do are supported :(
If you consider a spellwrought tattoo to be allowed at all (since potions and scrolls are not), I would rule that you can only have one available to activate at a time - that making another would poof all the magic effects or existence of any previous ones. You could make another after a long rest, but I would say also in the spirit of how all the other Replicate Magic Item infusions work, I'd probably obligate you to choose a single spell for it when you chose the tattoo (ie at level-up).
If you make it in this way, it's still a pretty neat item - you could have a single daily charge of say cure wounds (and you could give it to someone who cannot otherwise cast that spell).
You could also use it to make a Tattoo of Disguise with one charge a day. A Hat of Disguise, though, is an uncommon item, not a common one. The Hat of Disguise is not limited in its charges, and can be changed during the day to any person - is that enough of a difference?
Perhaps another broken part is that you don't seem to be limited to spells that you currently know to make one, that you could use any cantrip or first level spell from any list. I think that's another area to consider for restrictions, but then maybe if you have to know the same spell for the duration of your level, it's not so problematic.
On the topic of Spellwrought Tattoos, a few questions:
1) I presume you can use the needle and create the Tattoo on your skin and then there is no time limit for how long the tattoo remains until used?
2) Using the Tattoo is similar to casting the spell, as far as casting time and so on is concerned?
3) Is there any penalty for using a Tattoo containing a spell you cannot normally cast as there is with using a scroll containing a spell you cannot normally cast?
1. Correct.
2. Mostly. The spell's casting time, duration, and effects are the same as casting the spell normally. However, the spell does not have any material components even if it normally would. (Under the 2024 rules it doesn't have verbal or somatic components either). Also, the spellcasting ability modifier and save DC are specified in the item description and depend on the level of the spell (not on any of the user's stats).
3. No. The only limitation is that tattoos can only contain spells up to level 5.
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The tattoo is the magic item being replicated. It remains until the spell is cast or a different plan is replicated.
I think base rules say you can only make one instance of any given plan. Like you can have a bag of holding plan, and you can replicate only one of them. You cant print them and hand them out to the party
This holds for most spell storing items. So, i think you could only replicate one tattoo.
You can only have 2 instances of plans active at a time at lower levels. So there couldnt be too much shennanigans if your dm allowed 2 tattoos with, say, 2 different spells.
I think the spells have to be on your artificer spell list? That i dont remember. So, if you want shield, i think you have to be the artificer subclass with the mechanical dog. I think theyre the onky subclass that gets shield.
I know for the spell storing item at level 10, it only works with your artificer spells
Bear in mind that the original discussion in this thread was more than a year ago, before the release of the updated Artificer content.
In the context of the updated rules, tattoos do seem to be allowed, though a strict reading of the rules would say you can only have one spellwrought tattoo at a time. There is definitely no requirement that the spells involved be Artificer spells. However, it also seems like the intent of the rules is that things like this shouldn't be allowed at all, especially since scrolls are explicitly excluded, so it would be reasonable for a DM to rule that you can't have plans for them.
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"There is definitely no requirement that the spells involved be Artificer spells"
Thats a bit odd.
To craft a scroll, you have to have the spell prepared every day you are crafting it.
If you craft an enspelled magic item, rules says
"If a magic item allows its user to cast any spells from it, you must have all those spells prepared every day you spend crafting the item."
Its kinda weird that artificer tattoos end run that restriction
The Artificer's replicated magic items don't have anything to do with the normal magic item crafting rules and aren't intended to be limited by the restrictions of those rules.
That said, I agree that this specific case is weird; it certainly seems like the tattoos from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything were overlooked when designing this feature. As I said, since they're so similar to scrolls and scrolls are explicitly excluded from being replicated with the Artificer features, it's likely that the intent is for spellwrought tattoos to be excluded as well, and that's how I'd probably rule it if it came up at my table.
pronouns: he/she/they