The silence affects a 20 foot sphere around a point you choose. Can that point be an enemy spell caster or an object they are wearing or carryinging?, so that it moves with them? I have always assummed it can't so the enemy caster can, if they either by intellect or luck move out of the area of effect in order to cast spells with a verbal component. Otherwise it seems insanely powerful for a 2nd level spell with no saves, however one of my players challenged me on this and I am looking for confirmation whether or not I am correct .
My logic is spells like darkness have a phase "If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it." Which implies that if it is cast on a object being worn or carried by a creature other than you it does not move with the object but silence does not have this clause so this means that whenever it is cast it does not move with any object it is cast on
A point is equivalent to a set of GPS coordinates - a stationary location in space, and as a target it is explicitly not a creature or object. That's why you need to have the extra line in spells like darkness that connects that point to an object.
Imagine a small marble or ball-bearing. Place this mental ball anywhere you can see within range. The spell will extend from that ball to the radius specified.
That's targeting a point in space.
For everything else about what you can and can't do with the spell: read the spell, it tells you.
More specifically, in Euclidean geometry, a point is a primitive notion upon which the geometry is built, meaning that a point cannot be defined in terms of previously defined objects. That is, a point is defined only by some properties, called axioms, that it must satisfy. In particular, the geometric points do not have any length, area, volume or any other dimensional attribute. A common interpretation is that the concept of a point is meant to capture the notion of a unique location in Euclidean space.
Hope it helps. Basically, just a coordinate in space that does not fill any space. If the point is capable of being moved, the spell specifically says so.
Spells don't always specify when they can move: case in point, anything that targets a creature and persists where that creature moves to is unlikely to waste words saying that the effect will move with the creature... case in point, Light. But while it is right and proper that it be presumed that a spell pinned to a "creature" or an "object" can move if the creature or object moves, the common-sense meaning of the terms "point" or "area" refer to fixed spatial points, and can't be moved on subsequent rounds unless the spell provides a specifically enumerated mechanism for doing so.
Spells don't always specify when they can move: case in point, anything that targets a creature and persists where that creature moves to is unlikely to waste words saying that the effect will move with the creature... case in point, Light. But while it is right and proper that it be presumed that a spell pinned to a "creature" or an "object" can move if the creature or object moves, the common-sense meaning of the terms "point" or "area" refer to fixed spatial points, and can't be moved on subsequent rounds unless the spell provides a specifically enumerated mechanism for doing so.
Basically this. Spells that target an object or creature follow the target. Spells that target an area or point in space stay where they are cast unless otherwise stated.
Spells don't always specify when they can move: case in point, anything that targets a creature and persists where that creature moves to is unlikely to waste words saying that the effect will move with the creature... case in point, Light. But while it is right and proper that it be presumed that a spell pinned to a "creature" or an "object" can move if the creature or object moves, the common-sense meaning of the terms "point" or "area" refer to fixed spatial points, and can't be moved on subsequent rounds unless the spell provides a specifically enumerated mechanism for doing so.
Basically this. Spells that target an object or creature follow the target. Spells that target an area or point in space stay where they are cast unless otherwise stated.
Except for spells like Darkness that specify that the point could be located on an object or creature.
Spells don't always specify when they can move: case in point, anything that targets a creature and persists where that creature moves to is unlikely to waste words saying that the effect will move with the creature... case in point, Light. But while it is right and proper that it be presumed that a spell pinned to a "creature" or an "object" can move if the creature or object moves, the common-sense meaning of the terms "point" or "area" refer to fixed spatial points, and can't be moved on subsequent rounds unless the spell provides a specifically enumerated mechanism for doing so.
Basically this. Spells that target an object or creature follow the target. Spells that target an area or point in space stay where they are cast unless otherwise stated.
Except for spells like Darkness that specify that the point could be located on an object or creature.
Yes. It is otherwise stated. That is not an exception to what I said.
Also, darkness can't be cast on creatures only objects that are not worn or held by a creature other than you (or a point in space).
I also take a point to mean, if you are playing on a grid, a corner where four 5’ squares meet. Then you extend the effect out four squares in each direction (assuming a 20’ radius spell).
This is as opposed to choosing a full square and having it extend from the square.
What is the definition of a point?
The silence affects a 20 foot sphere around a point you choose. Can that point be an enemy spell caster or an object they are wearing or carryinging?, so that it moves with them? I have always assummed it can't so the enemy caster can, if they either by intellect or luck move out of the area of effect in order to cast spells with a verbal component. Otherwise it seems insanely powerful for a 2nd level spell with no saves, however one of my players challenged me on this and I am looking for confirmation whether or not I am correct .
My logic is spells like darkness have a phase "If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it." Which implies that if it is cast on a object being worn or carried by a creature other than you it does not move with the object but silence does not have this clause so this means that whenever it is cast it does not move with any object it is cast on
Is this correct?
Spells will specify if their areas of effect move, so Darkness can and Silence can't.
A point is equivalent to a set of GPS coordinates - a stationary location in space, and as a target it is explicitly not a creature or object. That's why you need to have the extra line in spells like darkness that connects that point to an object.
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Imagine a small marble or ball-bearing. Place this mental ball anywhere you can see within range. The spell will extend from that ball to the radius specified.
That's targeting a point in space.
For everything else about what you can and can't do with the spell: read the spell, it tells you.
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Hope it helps. Basically, just a coordinate in space that does not fill any space. If the point is capable of being moved, the spell specifically says so.
Spells don't always specify when they can move: case in point, anything that targets a creature and persists where that creature moves to is unlikely to waste words saying that the effect will move with the creature... case in point, Light. But while it is right and proper that it be presumed that a spell pinned to a "creature" or an "object" can move if the creature or object moves, the common-sense meaning of the terms "point" or "area" refer to fixed spatial points, and can't be moved on subsequent rounds unless the spell provides a specifically enumerated mechanism for doing so.
But different folks apparently have different takes on that, see the "Attaching Spells to a Wagon" thread from back in January.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Basically this. Spells that target an object or creature follow the target. Spells that target an area or point in space stay where they are cast unless otherwise stated.
Except for spells like Darkness that specify that the point could be located on an object or creature.
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Yes. It is otherwise stated. That is not an exception to what I said.
Also, darkness can't be cast on creatures only objects that are not worn or held by a creature other than you (or a point in space).
I also take a point to mean, if you are playing on a grid, a corner where four 5’ squares meet. Then you extend the effect out four squares in each direction (assuming a 20’ radius spell).
This is as opposed to choosing a full square and having it extend from the square.
^ If using the optional grid rules.