My players will be heading into a large desert soon. I'm trying to determine how long it will take them to cover the terrain, but that leads to the title question: Is sand difficult terrain?
Well, the rules give “snow” as an example of difficult terrain, so I’d be inclined to say “yes” based on that.
But...
remember that this is going to cut both ways. Not only will the player’s characters be dealing with the difficult terrain, but every opponent you as the DM are controlling as well.
I’d call it a wash and just skip the headache in favor of streamlining gameplay.
Sand (just like snow) is not uniform. It can be hard, and firm in which case I agree that it shouldn't be considered difficult terrain but it can be also very loose and make you dig calf deep with every step. Then it's very much so.
Wet or damp sand probably is not (like at the beach near the tide line), as it tends to hold you up near its surface. Deep, dry, dune sand, like higher up at the beach when you really have to slog through it, probably would be.
My players will be heading into a large desert soon. I'm trying to determine how long it will take them to cover the terrain, but that leads to the title question: Is sand difficult terrain?
I would say yes. And would have it reduce all forms of speed/movement.... PROVIDED... there is not a ranger who’s favored terrain is desert.
I’m not a fan, of glossing over crap as a DM, because of laziness, that has specific mechanics built in for their situations. Which then makes useless/diminishes a players abilities/feat/choice/etc.
My players will be heading into a large desert soon. I'm trying to determine how long it will take them to cover the terrain, but that leads to the title question: Is sand difficult terrain?
I would say yes. And would have it reduce all forms of speed/movement.... PROVIDED... there is not a ranger who’s favored terrain is desert.
I’m not a fan, of glossing over crap as a DM, because of laziness, that has specific mechanics built in for their situations. Which then makes useless/diminishes a players abilities/feat/choice/etc.
Thanks for all the input. There is a Ranger in the party, so keeping that in mind honors his choices of favored terrain. One of the things I tried to emphasize was preparing for their desert trip appropriately, so proper mounts or vehicles will be meaningful. Difficult terrain it is.
And refluffing a purple worm seems like the order of the day.
My players will be heading into a large desert soon. I'm trying to determine how long it will take them to cover the terrain, but that leads to the title question: Is sand difficult terrain?
I would say yes. And would have it reduce all forms of speed/movement.... PROVIDED... there is not a ranger who’s favored terrain is desert.
I’m not a fan, of glossing over crap as a DM, because of laziness, that has specific mechanics built in for their situations. Which then makes useless/diminishes a players abilities/feat/choice/etc.
Thanks for all the input. There is a Ranger in the party, so keeping that in mind honors his choices of favored terrain. One of the things I tried to emphasize was preparing for their desert trip appropriately, so proper mounts or vehicles will be meaningful. Difficult terrain it is.
And refluffing a purple worm seems like the order of the day.
If the ranger’s natural explorer terrain is desert, they shouldn’t be slowed or get lost. Also, there should be clues for the incoming refluffed purple worm (sandfish).
Edit: If they spend an extended period of time in the desert and don’t have reliable access to water I would also have them make con saves for exhaustion and wisdom saves for mirages.
Even with a ranger in the party, if there isn’t a source of water in the direction they travel the ranger may be able to take them off path, but it could be a couple days of torment.
Sand dunes are almost certainly going to be difficult terrain, between going up and down and loose sand giving way under your feet. Non-aquatic areas where sand doesn't pile up into dunes are likely to have sand that is firmly packed, caked with salt, mixed with gravel, or otherwise firm, and may not be difficult terrain.
Also, bear in mind that deserts aren't always sandy.
Sand dunes are almost certainly going to be difficult terrain, between going up and down and loose sand giving way under your feet. Non-aquatic areas where sand doesn't pile up into dunes are likely to have sand that is firmly packed, caked with salt, mixed with gravel, or otherwise firm, and may not be difficult terrain.
Also, bear in mind that deserts aren't always sandy.
Yeah, my only experience with sand is beaches. But even dry sand well above the tide line I wouldn't call difficult terrain. It isn't the easiest surface to move on, but not half speed. I can't speak for sandy deserts, but I can see how the dry, loose sand would be much harder to move on. Especially going over dunes.
Fun fact, Antarctica is the largest desert on earth.
Peaks and troughs in dunes aren't too bad (not as good as a road, but not twice as hard), but slopes are nasty; around 2:1 cross-slope, more like 4:1 up-slope (for every step you take up-slope, you slide about a half-step down), so overland is going to either require a pretty windy path or a fair amount of unpleasant terrain.
Something that seems forgotten in all the talk about all deserts in particular.
not a lot of land markers. So for unseasoned naturalists. It can be quite easy to get turned around and lost and wander in circles.
not everyone is proficient in survival checks to follow astronomy charts of stars or know how to navigate the sun.
Depends on the desert, and many deserts have quite long sight lines and clear air, so you can navigate based on some distant mountain. Forest is probably the worst for navigation, desert seems fairly average to me.
Something that seems forgotten in all the talk about all deserts in particular.
not a lot of land markers. So for unseasoned naturalists. It can be quite easy to get turned around and lost and wander in circles.
not everyone is proficient in survival checks to follow astronomy charts of stars or know how to navigate the sun.
Depends on the desert, and many deserts have quite long sight lines and clear air, so you can navigate based on some distant mountain. Forest is probably the worst for navigation, desert seems fairly average to me.
You can mark trees.
you ever try marking sand?
and you think they have long sight lines... but really do they? It’s easy for your mind to play tricks on you in both frozen deserts and deserts that are excessively hot.
heat radiating from the ground makes things hazy. Not to mention if there’s wind the sand blowing up and swirling. Frozen ones the snow blowing up and swirling.
forest, sure there could be fog... but aside from that. It’s pretty straightforward stuff, and all it takes is survival, or nature, or even history checks. To know things like Moss mostly grows on the specific sides of trees (north in northern hemisphere. South in Southern Hemisphere). Forests also have more readily accessible things to help you find your bearings. Like a tree to climb. Or food sources to keep up your energy.
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My players will be heading into a large desert soon. I'm trying to determine how long it will take them to cover the terrain, but that leads to the title question: Is sand difficult terrain?
Well, the rules give “snow” as an example of difficult terrain, so I’d be inclined to say “yes” based on that.
But...
remember that this is going to cut both ways. Not only will the player’s characters be dealing with the difficult terrain, but every opponent you as the DM are controlling as well.
I’d call it a wash and just skip the headache in favor of streamlining gameplay.
DCI: 3319125026
Whenever you walk on sand for a long ways it uses muscles in a different way and can be exhausting
I don't think I'd call sand difficult terrain (it is very different from snow) but I would have it reduce travel speed (not movement) as if it was.
It is up to DM.
Sand (just like snow) is not uniform. It can be hard, and firm in which case I agree that it shouldn't be considered difficult terrain but it can be also very loose and make you dig calf deep with every step. Then it's very much so.
Wet or damp sand probably is not (like at the beach near the tide line), as it tends to hold you up near its surface. Deep, dry, dune sand, like higher up at the beach when you really have to slog through it, probably would be.
BioWizard
I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I wouldn’t have sand be 1/2 speed, but I would make travel take longer if they don’t get camels.
When it comes to combat I would reduce a character’s speed by 5ft, and have some quicksand or falling off a slipface.
Edit: I would also make a giant sandfish try to eat them. That would 100% happen.
+1 for the giant sandfish
BioWizard
I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I would say yes. And would have it reduce all forms of speed/movement.... PROVIDED... there is not a ranger who’s favored terrain is desert.
I’m not a fan, of glossing over crap as a DM, because of laziness, that has specific mechanics built in for their situations. Which then makes useless/diminishes a players abilities/feat/choice/etc.
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This all sounds right to me.
+2 for sandfish.
Thanks for all the input. There is a Ranger in the party, so keeping that in mind honors his choices of favored terrain. One of the things I tried to emphasize was preparing for their desert trip appropriately, so proper mounts or vehicles will be meaningful. Difficult terrain it is.
And refluffing a purple worm seems like the order of the day.
If the ranger’s natural explorer terrain is desert, they shouldn’t be slowed or get lost. Also, there should be clues for the incoming refluffed purple worm (sandfish).
Edit: If they spend an extended period of time in the desert and don’t have reliable access to water I would also have them make con saves for exhaustion and wisdom saves for mirages.
Even with a ranger in the party, if there isn’t a source of water in the direction they travel the ranger may be able to take them off path, but it could be a couple days of torment.
Now I want to go reread Dune.
Sand dunes are almost certainly going to be difficult terrain, between going up and down and loose sand giving way under your feet. Non-aquatic areas where sand doesn't pile up into dunes are likely to have sand that is firmly packed, caked with salt, mixed with gravel, or otherwise firm, and may not be difficult terrain.
Also, bear in mind that deserts aren't always sandy.
Yeah, my only experience with sand is beaches. But even dry sand well above the tide line I wouldn't call difficult terrain. It isn't the easiest surface to move on, but not half speed. I can't speak for sandy deserts, but I can see how the dry, loose sand would be much harder to move on. Especially going over dunes.
Fun fact, Antarctica is the largest desert on earth.
Peaks and troughs in dunes aren't too bad (not as good as a road, but not twice as hard), but slopes are nasty; around 2:1 cross-slope, more like 4:1 up-slope (for every step you take up-slope, you slide about a half-step down), so overland is going to either require a pretty windy path or a fair amount of unpleasant terrain.
Can “unpleasant terrain” be a condition? Not half speed but slower than regular travel. I’m going to start using this in my campaigns.
Something that seems forgotten in all the talk about all deserts in particular.
not a lot of land markers. So for unseasoned naturalists. It can be quite easy to get turned around and lost and wander in circles.
not everyone is proficient in survival checks to follow astronomy charts of stars or know how to navigate the sun.
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Depends on the desert, and many deserts have quite long sight lines and clear air, so you can navigate based on some distant mountain. Forest is probably the worst for navigation, desert seems fairly average to me.
You can mark trees.
you ever try marking sand?
and you think they have long sight lines... but really do they? It’s easy for your mind to play tricks on you in both frozen deserts and deserts that are excessively hot.
heat radiating from the ground makes things hazy. Not to mention if there’s wind the sand blowing up and swirling. Frozen ones the snow blowing up and swirling.
forest, sure there could be fog... but aside from that. It’s pretty straightforward stuff, and all it takes is survival, or nature, or even history checks. To know things like Moss mostly grows on the specific sides of trees (north in northern hemisphere. South in Southern Hemisphere). Forests also have more readily accessible things to help you find your bearings. Like a tree to climb. Or food sources to keep up your energy.
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