I've always interpreted the ability score increases you get from feats as being instantaneous effects. If you're ineligible for them at the time, they just go away; they don't reappear later if you somehow become eligible for them. But this is my interpretation, and I'm not sure there's a solid RAW answer.
I've always interpreted the ability score increases you get from feats as being instantaneous effects. If you're ineligible for them at the time, they just go away; they don't reappear later if you somehow become eligible for them. But this is my interpretation, and I'm not sure there's a solid RAW answer.
(So, in that example: 17.)
So, if you managed to change out the feat, your stat wouldn't go down?
(It's not, AFAIK, possible to swap out feats that provide stat bumps in the WotC rules (short of a wish), but that's not a guarantee it never will be.)
I've always interpreted the ability score increases you get from feats as being instantaneous effects. If you're ineligible for them at the time, they just go away; they don't reappear later if you somehow become eligible for them. But this is my interpretation, and I'm not sure there's a solid RAW answer.
(So, in that example: 17.)
So, if you managed to change out the feat, your stat wouldn't go down?
(It's not, AFAIK, possible to swap out feats that provide stat bumps in the WotC rules (short of a wish), but that's not a guarantee it never will be.)
Well, I think that's a big part of why swapping out a feat is not generally possible: it would be essentially undoing the past, which is why it's (currently, at least) uniquely available via a spell that can reshape reality.
With that in mind, I think it would make sense for any ability score improvements granted by a feat to be undone when the feat is swapped out, though I acknowledge that might make less sense if there were a more commonplace and less reality-breaking way to do it.
This is just my opinion, but to me the "Increase your ability score by..." language in the feats that I looked at suggests that it is a one-time increase, not a constant bonus.
If it were a bonus to your score, I feel like it would read "Add +1 to your strength score" or something similar.
Because you couldn't increase your Strength score because it was already 20, that part has no effect after you take the feat, and if you Strength score is decreased later (as by the example you gave in the OP) the feat still won't have any effect because the increase happens at the time it is taken, not granted as a constant effect.
I don't have any rules I can cite to back that up, it's just my opinion based on the wording used in the rules.
Pure hypothetical here, inspired by a different thread.
Suppose you have a 20 strength, and then take a feat that gives you +1 strength, because you want the rest of its bonuses.
Then you fight a shadow. It hits, and reduces your strength by 3. Is your strength now 17 or 18?
The feat gives a one-time bump at that point in time. But if the score is already 20 then you don't get the one time bump. Later if you then have your strength reduced by 3 from the Shadow, then your strength is a 17.
Pure hypothetical here, inspired by a different thread.
Suppose you have a 20 strength, and then take a feat that gives you +1 strength, because you want the rest of its bonuses.
Then you fight a shadow. It hits, and reduces your strength by 3. Is your strength now 17 or 18?
IMO, since the feats say "You gain the following benefits", I interpret this as permanent and instantaneous, as others said, but not a continuous effect.
But I also wanted to mention that the 2014 PHB had this text. The 2024 PHB doesn't have it, so it seems to me the benefits are yours even if you don't meet the requirements after picking a particular feat.
You must meet any prerequisite specified in a feat to take that feat. If you ever lose a feat's prerequisite, you can't use that feat until you regain the prerequisite. For example, the Grappler feat requires you to have a Strength of 13 or higher. If your Strength is reduced below 13 somehow—perhaps by a withering curse—you can't benefit from the Grappler feat until your Strength is restored.
But I posed this question in the discord to get some more conversation around it, and there seemed to be more consensus that RAW did not allow you to choose CHA for any effect. I'm inclined to agree after mulling over it. The "to a maximum of 20" prevents it from increasing. It did not increase and then get brought back down. And if it didn't increase, it can't be "the ability you increased with this feat".
There's a very common attitude that RAW is always the most restrictive interpretation of any ambiguous point, but it's not supported by the rules themselves.
The feat has you increase a stat, with a cap. It also gives you an ability that keys off the stat you increased. The idea that, if you pick a stat that's already maxed, you get absolutely nothing from the feat is just silly. If you managed to rearrange your base stats, perhaps with a wish, the stat you chose would get the feat bonus applied to it. (Very much an edge case, I admit, but I think it's clarifying.)
Trying to draw a distinction between "the stat you increased" and "the stat you chose to increase" is needless hair-splitting.
I also interpret it to mean the Feat benefits are instantaneous and permanent. If it's possible to change Feat, such as in Organized Play rules like LEGENDS OF GREYHAWK where Rebuilding Your Character is possible, i would assume you loose any benefit associated to a Feat replaced, as well as anything you'd no longer qualify.
Pure hypothetical here, inspired by a different thread.
Suppose you have a 20 strength, and then take a feat that gives you +1 strength, because you want the rest of its bonuses.
Then you fight a shadow. It hits, and reduces your strength by 3. Is your strength now 17 or 18?
IMO, since the feats say "You gain the following benefits", I interpret this as permanent and instantaneous, as others said, but not a continuous effect.
Yeah, that would be my read on it too. "Increase by" also implies a one-time boost and is the same language they used with the Backgrounds section
Parts of a Background
A background includes the following parts.
Ability Scores. A background lists three of your character’s ability scores. Increase one by 2 and another one by 1, or increase all three by 1. None of these increases can raise a score above 20.
While wearing this belt, your Strength score changes to a score granted by the belt. The item has no effect on you if your Strength without the belt is equal to or greater than the belt’s score.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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Pure hypothetical here, inspired by a different thread.
Suppose you have a 20 strength, and then take a feat that gives you +1 strength, because you want the rest of its bonuses.
Then you fight a shadow. It hits, and reduces your strength by 3. Is your strength now 17 or 18?
I've always interpreted the ability score increases you get from feats as being instantaneous effects. If you're ineligible for them at the time, they just go away; they don't reappear later if you somehow become eligible for them. But this is my interpretation, and I'm not sure there's a solid RAW answer.
(So, in that example: 17.)
pronouns: he/she/they
So, if you managed to change out the feat, your stat wouldn't go down?
(It's not, AFAIK, possible to swap out feats that provide stat bumps in the WotC rules (short of a wish), but that's not a guarantee it never will be.)
Well, I think that's a big part of why swapping out a feat is not generally possible: it would be essentially undoing the past, which is why it's (currently, at least) uniquely available via a spell that can reshape reality.
With that in mind, I think it would make sense for any ability score improvements granted by a feat to be undone when the feat is swapped out, though I acknowledge that might make less sense if there were a more commonplace and less reality-breaking way to do it.
pronouns: he/she/they
This is just my opinion, but to me the "Increase your ability score by..." language in the feats that I looked at suggests that it is a one-time increase, not a constant bonus.
If it were a bonus to your score, I feel like it would read "Add +1 to your strength score" or something similar.
Because you couldn't increase your Strength score because it was already 20, that part has no effect after you take the feat, and if you Strength score is decreased later (as by the example you gave in the OP) the feat still won't have any effect because the increase happens at the time it is taken, not granted as a constant effect.
I don't have any rules I can cite to back that up, it's just my opinion based on the wording used in the rules.
The feat gives a one-time bump at that point in time. But if the score is already 20 then you don't get the one time bump. Later if you then have your strength reduced by 3 from the Shadow, then your strength is a 17.
IMO, since the feats say "You gain the following benefits", I interpret this as permanent and instantaneous, as others said, but not a continuous effect.
But I also wanted to mention that the 2014 PHB had this text. The 2024 PHB doesn't have it, so it seems to me the benefits are yours even if you don't meet the requirements after picking a particular feat.
Not sure if the inspiration comes from this comment, but it's an interesting take, jl8e:
I also interpret it to mean the Feat benefits are instantaneous and permanent. If it's possible to change Feat, such as in Organized Play rules like LEGENDS OF GREYHAWK where Rebuilding Your Character is possible, i would assume you loose any benefit associated to a Feat replaced, as well as anything you'd no longer qualify.
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
PIPA - Planar Interception/Protection Aeormaton, warforged bodyguard and ex-wizard hunter (Warrior of the Elements monk/Cartographer artificer)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)