Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Struggling to explain the Hide action from 2024 rules which bestows the Invisible condition, with lots of caveats and conditions, and it occurs that the quickest way to explain it is to say its like being Invisible Boy from the 1999 movie Mystery Men.
For those who havent seen the movie, Invisible Boy can become invisible, but only when no one is looking.
https://mysterymen.fandom.com/wiki/Invisible_Boy
There are some differences in the exact way the powers work, but its probably the best and fastest way to communicate how it works: if you are out of line od sight, or have enough cover that no one is looking at you, you can become invisisble. And you immediately become visible if anyone looks at you, or if you do anything listed such as speak, make an atgack roll, etc.
The thing is, the phrase "you have the Invisible condition" does not necessarily mean that you "are" invisible. It just means that you enjoy the bulleted list of benefits that are provided by that condition.
Oh believe me, i know. But youve got to explain THAT to someone PLUS how the whole "hide" action works now. Invisible Boy removes the need to explain "hide".
Id say the Invisible condition kinda works like the predator suit from the old 80's movie, i.e. youre invisible if you dont move, and if your glowing eyeballs dont light up, but if you move, your outline is pretty clear.
The reason they changed how hide works is because they simplified the rules for how monsters see things. There is no longer a cone of vision. All creatures see things in all directions around them. So, to create the cinematic effect of a character hiding behind an overturned table, and then running out to stab the monster from behind in melee, they had to account for someone being able to move across an open area without being detected until they attacked. Hence, hiding grants the invisible condition. For all rules purposes, the hidden character is invisible in the same way that someone under magical invisibility would be. They are not detected by simply leaving cover while within an enemy's line of sight. Once hidden, they remain that way until they explicitly do something that ends the condition. Leaving cover does not end the condition.
From a role-playing perspective, they are not invisible in the same way that a magically invisible creature is. What they are doing is choosing a moment when the enemy is looking away and/or distracted by other things. Then they are moving "unnoticed" across the open terrain to make their attack. Since "unnoticed" and "invisible" are the same thing mechanically, they share the condition.
This premise is incorrect and it was clarified via errata. You only have the Invisible condition while hidden. If you move out into the open within an enemy's line of sight then you are no longer hidden because that enemy automatically finds you, which means by rule that "you stop being hidden immediately".
Note that a Search action, which is the activity associated with an active Perception check, is only necessary when locating something that is not obvious:
Note also that it IS possible to surprise an enemy by hiding and then jumping out from behind cover and then attacking in melee, but you do not make that attack with advantage as an Unseen Attacker -- you give up that benefit when you come out of hiding.
However, there is already another thread ongoing to discuss the specific mechanics of hiding so we should continue this discussion over there if necessary.
Where is there an errata that says an enemy finds you if you move in the open?
There is an errata that says you lose the condition if you stop being hidden. But there are specific rules that cause you to stop being hidden. Being in the open is not one of them. The things that end hide are:
1. Making a sound louder than a whisper.
2. An enemy finds you. "Find" is further defined as "find you with a Wisdom (Perception) check"
3. You make an attack roll.
4. You cast a spell with a verbal component.
Until one of those things happen, you have the invisible condition because you are hidden.
And, because specific beats general, anything that would beat invisible condition would also cause you to no longer be hidden.
Also, you can not "surprise" a creature that is in combat. A creature can only be surprised when combat begins. Creatures in combat are immune to surprise because they are no longer rolling initiative.
Absolutely not. You stop being hidden when an enemy finds you. That's deliberately open-ended and is more or less an appeal to common sense. It is not "further defined".
When your location becomes obvious a Search action / Perception Check is no longer necessary. You are found automatically in such cases. See my previous post for details on that.
The Hide action is not limited to "in combat". It's very commonly used outside of combat. As a matter of fact, hiding before combat begins is the main way to achieve surprise because this allows combat to begin in such a way that one side is not aware that combat is starting because they have not noticed any threats.
The point that I was making is that it is possible to achieve surprise when combat begins by hiding but then be no longer hidden when you attack on your turn, such as when you charge into a melee position.
In combat, a Level 2+ Rogue has successfully taken the Hide action as a bonus and is hidden behind total cover, then they pop out to fire an arrow at an enemy (which has no allies of the Rogue within 5 feet). That requires having line of sight to an enemy, and creatures in combat have 360 degree vision. The Rogue has to move out into the open to take the shot. The rules say you stop being hidden "immediately" upon an enemy finding you.
Does the Rogue stop being hidden or invisible before they make their attack roll and thus no longer roll at advantage (and no longer get Sneak Attack), or do they stay Invisible until they make their attack roll (keeping advantage)?
The idea here is to "pop out" to three-quarters cover to take the shot which is enough to maintain the prerequisites for being hidden. This is the purpose of the otherwise sort of odd inclusion of three-quarters cover within the text for the Hide action. So, if you Hide first and then take your shot from three-quarters cover then you don't give away your location until your attack hits or misses as per the rules for Unseen Attackers. If instead you merely position yourself behind three-quarters cover but you do not Hide, then when you make this attack the enemy sees it coming and you do not get the benefits of being an Unseen Attacker. This is the main scenario where hiding in combat, especially as a Bonus Action, is helpful.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around your interpretation.
There is a scene in Vox Machina where Vax is hidden in an alcove. A guard on patrol moves by. Vax silently falls into step directly behind him, remaining undetected. As the guard turns to another hallway, Vax rotates around him, remaining hidden from the guard. Then the guard and Vax walk away from each other in different directions. Vax has no cover from the guard other than when he originally hid in the alcove.
Under your interpretation of the rules, how does a scene like that look mechanically?
EDIT: To be fair, here's how it looks under my interpretation:
Vax makes a hide roll while under total cover within the alcove. He hits the roll with a 23. So he has the invisible condition. The guard moves by. Vax states his intention to follow the guard while remaining hidden. DM rules the guard is vigilant, and looking for intruders. So the guard is actively searching as he walks. Since Vax has no cover, and there is nothing to distract the guard, the guard will have advantage to find him. The guard rolls with advantage. He still doesn't hit the DC of 23. Vax successfully remains hidden and moves past the guard.
Well the main issue seems.to be that it used to be there was no such thing as "heading" or "facing", but Hiding basically implies creatures look in one direction
" if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you"
I dont know how to read that other than you look at the creature and know when its looking in your direction or lookking away.