If someone drops a Wall of Thorns onto an area of difficult terrain, how hard is it to more through it?
A creature can move through the wall, albeit slowly and painfully. For every 1 foot a creature moves through the wall, it must spend 4 feet of movement.
and
You move at half speed in difficult terrain— moving 1 foot in Difficult Terrain costs 2 feet of speed—so you can cover only half the normal distance in a minute, an hour, or a day.
So you have, as far as I can tell, 3 possible interpretations of this interaction:
1. Half speed, and then 1 costs 4, for a total of 1 ft costs 8 ft.
2. 1 ft costs 4, and also 1 ft costs 2, therefore 4+2= 1ft costs 6 ft.
3. 1 ft costs 3 extra and 1 ft costs 1 extra so 1+3 = 1 ft costs 4 extra so 1 ft costs 5ft.
Anyone know the answer and the rationale for this?
No. Being "in combat" or "out of combat" doesn't affect your speed, as those aren't really specific ideas within the game. The only difference between those game modes is how players tend to track things (following turn order, etc). Most of the rules for most parts of the game are "combat" agnostic.
No. Being "in combat" or "out of combat" doesn't affect your speed, as those aren't really specific ideas within the game. The only difference between those game modes is how players tend to track things (following turn order, etc). Most of the rules for most parts of the game are "combat" agnostic.
Except difficult terrain does have a distinction between combat and not combat. They very explicitly have different rules for in and out of combat. Both versions quoted here. But I can quote them again:
You move at half speed in difficult terrain— moving 1 foot in Difficult Terrain costs 2 feet of speed—so you can cover only half the normal distance in a minute, an hour, or a day.
Every foot of movement in difficult terrain costs 1 extra foot.
The first difficult terrain rule found in adventuring rules, the second one found in combat rules. Should you be referencing the rules in the Combat chapter for for something that isn't in combat? I'm reasonably sure rules are only applied when they're directly applicable. I'm fairly sure you've personally told me as much in the past.
I’d agree with 5. Not all the “you’re slower” stuff is worded the same, be careful. When dragging an enemy, your “speed is halved” (i.e. the number that defines the size of your pool of movement points). Difficult Terrain “costs 1 extra foot.” Stuff like the wall requires you to “spend x feet of movement for every 1 foot.” But i don’t think there anything out there that is worded sloppily enough to provide a multiplying, rather than additive, malus to MOVEMENT cost (not speed itself).
I stand by what I said. Things that don't say otherwise work the same inside and outside of combat, though they might be easier to track in or out of combat.
Those rules that you quote do not have different effects, they are just different statements depending on how you track. You generally cannot be going through enough spike growths/walls of thorns for it to significantly affect your pace over 1 or 8 hours. You'd be dead. So instead, the authors restate that your 1 additional foot of movement means each costs 2 - so you travel at half pace.
But that overland travel rule has nothing to do with short stints of activity that would be best described (as the adventuring chapter rules, in fact, say) by the sentence "In combat and other fast-paced situations, the game relies on rounds, a 6-second span of time described in chapter 9, “Combat.”
The other difficult terrain rules you are referencing is from the section about traveling. It assumes speed is constant for long periods of time, then all travel is skipped to when something interesting happens and you stop using those rules. Wall of thorns would not actually even effect that travel time that much (it would take like 6-12 seconds longer).
I am... asking... about the interaction between the two rules in the OP.
It is weird to ask a question and get an answer to a question you're not asking. I'm not asking about combat, and didn't quote the combat rules in the OP.
The answer to the question in the OP is that they don’t interact directly. The rules that interact are the ones that DxJxC discussed.
We have as best as we can tried to explain how difficult terrain interacts with other rules. Overland travel does not significantly interact with a wall of thorns.
I am... asking... about the interaction between the two rules in the OP.
It is weird to ask a question and get an answer to a question you're not asking. I'm not asking about combat, and didn't quote the combat rules in the OP.
Well, the answer is 5 feet needed to move 1 foot (4 for the wall and 1 for difficult terrain). The wall is 5 feet thick requiring 25 feet of movement to get through it.
The other difficult terrain rules you are referencing is from the section about traveling. It assumes speed is constant for long periods of time, then all travel is skipped to when something interesting happens and you stop using those rules. Wall of thorns would not actually even effect that travel time that much (it would take like 6-12 seconds longer).
I am... asking... about the interaction between the two rules in the OP.
It is weird to ask a question and get an answer to a question you're not asking. I'm not asking about combat, and didn't quote the combat rules in the OP.
(I don't know why DDB hated quoting your post, but I fixed it).
Sorry you didn't understand what I said. I'll simplify: They don't. You will never "travel" through a 5 foot area of effect that deal damage. Ever.
If you ever have a DM that says, "oh by the way, you all took 30 slashing damage when you traveled straight through a wall of thorns during your 8 hour trip," call out that BS.
Wow. Guys. If you don't know don't answer, don't tell ME my question isn't allowed to be asked. I want to know how these rules interact.
Thorn Wall is one example of that effect but there are plenty others.
Let's Take Plant Growth instead, which does the exact same thing. Have it hypothetically affecting everything for miles or whatever you need to consider how these rules interact
A creature moving through the area must spend 4 feet of movement for every 1 foot it moves.
How does this interact with:
You move at half speed in difficult terrain— moving 1 foot in Difficult Terrain costs 2 feet of speed—so you can cover only half the normal distance in a minute, an hour, or a day.
I think you’ve asked and been answered a few times. Slowing affects from difficult terrain and other sources are additive, not multiplicative. If you don’t like the answer, I don’t know what to tell you.
I think you’ve asked and been answered a few times. Slowing affects from difficult terrain and other sources are additive, not multiplicative. If you don’t like the answer, I don’t know what to tell you.
Not to mention the fact that, again, not in combat, either you are still using the combat rules (as the adventuring chapter states you should do even outside of combat) or the effect (even plant growth's 100' radius) isn't enough to affect travel pace. i.e. the answer to "how do these rules interact?" has also been repeated: they do not.
Wow. Guys. If you don't know don't answer, don't tell ME my question isn't allowed to be asked. I want to know how these rules interact.
Your questions are absolutely allowed to be asked. After all, this very question has been asked, debated, and answered several times on this forum, so anyone who has been around a while knows the answer very well. What we wish you wouldn't do is argue when you don't like the answers (which you seem to be doing in several threads lately).
Thorn Wall is one example of that effect but there are plenty others.
Let's Take Plant Growth instead, which does the exact same thing. Have it hypothetically affecting everything for miles or whatever you need to consider how these rules interact
Again, can't stress this enough: Not in combat.
Exact same effect, exact same answer: 4+1=5.
And rules found in the combat chapter don't only apply during combat (what sense would it make if the same action had different results depending on whether you were in an initiative order or not?).
But the rules for travel pace (which you have quoted) only apply to traveling, not movement in general. Those rules don't really interact with these spells.
Wow. Guys. If you don't know don't answer, don't tell ME my question isn't allowed to be asked. I want to know how these rules interact.
Thorn Wall is one example of that effect but there are plenty others.
Let's Take Plant Growth instead, which does the exact same thing. Have it hypothetically affecting everything for miles or whatever you need to consider how these rules interact
A creature moving through the area must spend 4 feet of movement for every 1 foot it moves.
How does this interact with:
You move at half speed in difficult terrain— moving 1 foot in Difficult Terrain costs 2 feet of speed—so you can cover only half the normal distance in a minute, an hour, or a day.
Again, can't stress this enough: Not in combat.
Ok. Hypothetically a large group of druids cast plant growth so for miles around you spend 4 feet to move 1. And say it’s all mountainous-ish terrain, so difficult, which adds 1 more foot to move a foot. 4+1=5. So it takes 5 feet of movement to move 1. Or will take 5 times as long to travel the same distance compared to if it was flat and smooth. Or to say it differently, you move at 1/5th normal speed.
Wow. Guys. If you don't know don't answer, don't tell ME my question isn't allowed to be asked. I want to know how these rules interact.
Your questions are absolutely allowed to be asked. After all, this very question has been asked, debated, and answered several times on this forum, so anyone who has been around a while knows the answer very well. What we wish you wouldn't do is argue when you don't like the answers (which you seem to be doing in several threads lately).
I don't disagree with the answer. I disagree with the process used to get it. You do notuse combat rules for out of combat or overland travel. So any answer that suggests that you do is simply wrong.
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I got quotes!
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If someone drops a Wall of Thorns onto an area of difficult terrain, how hard is it to more through it?
and
So you have, as far as I can tell, 3 possible interpretations of this interaction:
1. Half speed, and then 1 costs 4, for a total of 1 ft costs 8 ft.
2. 1 ft costs 4, and also 1 ft costs 2, therefore 4+2= 1ft costs 6 ft.
3. 1 ft costs 3 extra and 1 ft costs 1 extra so 1+3 = 1 ft costs 4 extra so 1 ft costs 5ft.
Anyone know the answer and the rationale for this?
I got quotes!
There is a different rule for difficult terrain in combat. Namely:
So 4+1=5 is the correct answer.
Okay, hypothetically, lets say you're not in combat then. Would that then work differently?
I got quotes!
No. Being "in combat" or "out of combat" doesn't affect your speed, as those aren't really specific ideas within the game. The only difference between those game modes is how players tend to track things (following turn order, etc). Most of the rules for most parts of the game are "combat" agnostic.
Except difficult terrain does have a distinction between combat and not combat. They very explicitly have different rules for in and out of combat. Both versions quoted here. But I can quote them again:
The first difficult terrain rule found in adventuring rules, the second one found in combat rules. Should you be referencing the rules in the Combat chapter for for something that isn't in combat? I'm reasonably sure rules are only applied when they're directly applicable. I'm fairly sure you've personally told me as much in the past.
I got quotes!
I’d agree with 5.
Not all the “you’re slower” stuff is worded the same, be careful. When dragging an enemy, your “speed is halved” (i.e. the number that defines the size of your pool of movement points). Difficult Terrain “costs 1 extra foot.” Stuff like the wall requires you to “spend x feet of movement for every 1 foot.” But i don’t think there anything out there that is worded sloppily enough to provide a multiplying, rather than additive, malus to MOVEMENT cost (not speed itself).
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I stand by what I said. Things that don't say otherwise work the same inside and outside of combat, though they might be easier to track in or out of combat.
Those rules that you quote do not have different effects, they are just different statements depending on how you track. You generally cannot be going through enough spike growths/walls of thorns for it to significantly affect your pace over 1 or 8 hours. You'd be dead. So instead, the authors restate that your 1 additional foot of movement means each costs 2 - so you travel at half pace.
But that overland travel rule has nothing to do with short stints of activity that would be best described (as the adventuring chapter rules, in fact, say) by the sentence "In combat and other fast-paced situations, the game relies on rounds, a 6-second span of time described in chapter 9, “Combat.”
The other difficult terrain rules you are referencing is from the section about traveling. It assumes speed is constant for long periods of time, then all travel is skipped to when something interesting happens and you stop using those rules. Wall of thorns would not actually even effect that travel time that much (it would take like 6-12 seconds longer).
I got quotes!
The answer to the question in the OP is that they don’t interact directly. The rules that interact are the ones that DxJxC discussed.
We have as best as we can tried to explain how difficult terrain interacts with other rules. Overland travel does not significantly interact with a wall of thorns.
Well, the answer is 5 feet needed to move 1 foot (4 for the wall and 1 for difficult terrain). The wall is 5 feet thick requiring 25 feet of movement to get through it.
Overland movement, outside of combat, doesn’t use speed at all. All characters “travel” at the same rate, regardless of their speed.
So I struggle to see what relevance a wall of thorns has to that.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
(I don't know why DDB hated quoting your post, but I fixed it).
Sorry you didn't understand what I said. I'll simplify: They don't. You will never "travel" through a 5 foot area of effect that deal damage. Ever.
If you ever have a DM that says, "oh by the way, you all took 30 slashing damage when you traveled straight through a wall of thorns during your 8 hour trip," call out that BS.
Wow. Guys. If you don't know don't answer, don't tell ME my question isn't allowed to be asked. I want to know how these rules interact.
Thorn Wall is one example of that effect but there are plenty others.
Let's Take Plant Growth instead, which does the exact same thing. Have it hypothetically affecting everything for miles or whatever you need to consider how these rules interact
How does this interact with:
Again, can't stress this enough: Not in combat.
I got quotes!
I think you’ve asked and been answered a few times. Slowing affects from difficult terrain and other sources are additive, not multiplicative. If you don’t like the answer, I don’t know what to tell you.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Not to mention the fact that, again, not in combat, either you are still using the combat rules (as the adventuring chapter states you should do even outside of combat) or the effect (even plant growth's 100' radius) isn't enough to affect travel pace. i.e. the answer to "how do these rules interact?" has also been repeated: they do not.
Your questions are absolutely allowed to be asked. After all, this very question has been asked, debated, and answered several times on this forum, so anyone who has been around a while knows the answer very well. What we wish you wouldn't do is argue when you don't like the answers (which you seem to be doing in several threads lately).
Exact same effect, exact same answer: 4+1=5.
And rules found in the combat chapter don't only apply during combat (what sense would it make if the same action had different results depending on whether you were in an initiative order or not?).
But the rules for travel pace (which you have quoted) only apply to traveling, not movement in general. Those rules don't really interact with these spells.
TDLR;
In combat 4 + 1.
Out of combat, does nothing because travel pace doesn't care about movement penalties, only your total amount of movement before said penalties.
If I wanted to HB something, I would probably just follow the combat rules, apply those, then consult the chart. But that would be Homebrew.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Ok. Hypothetically a large group of druids cast plant growth so for miles around you spend 4 feet to move 1. And say it’s all mountainous-ish terrain, so difficult, which adds 1 more foot to move a foot. 4+1=5. So it takes 5 feet of movement to move 1. Or will take 5 times as long to travel the same distance compared to if it was flat and smooth. Or to say it differently, you move at 1/5th normal speed.
I don't disagree with the answer. I disagree with the process used to get it. You do not use combat rules for out of combat or overland travel. So any answer that suggests that you do is simply wrong.
I got quotes!