a really long while ago now, wizards of the coast released an unearthed arcana article regarding the mystic class, and psionics. And that atricle has been widely critizised for being quite unbalanced, to the point where no new version of the class has showed up since then. What was it in particular that made people not like the class? had it to do with a few op class features like mystic recovery, or had it more to do with some core problem, like the class seemingly having a solution to everything or being prone to running out of juice quickly?, and if i were to introduce the class or some homwbrew variant of the class into an game, what precautions am i ought to take to avoid those balance issues?
Geez. How long do you have? First, it was too complicated. It added more rules than spellcasting, but was unique to mystic. It uses something akin to spell points, but different.
Each discipline is essentially multiple spells and a static ability that doesn't use points, and you start with 3 of them... Most of its "spells" are essentially level 1 (or 1/2) that can get up casted. When full casters get 6th level slots, mystics get the ability to concentrate on multiple spells at a time... When full casters get 8th level slots, mystics have 4 8th level uses of extra points that can concentrate on multiple spells. They even get the cleric's both divine strike and potent cantrip features.
The 1 class was 28 pages.
To "fix" it, I say break the disciplines into multiple spells (if necessary some can be 1 spell with multiple options or higher level casting bonuses, might have to make up spell levels), make talents cantrips (easy enough), make the focuses something akin to the warlock invocation list, and just make it a full caster (for fun, and to be closer to UA, make it a learn spells caster like sorcerer, but start it knowing 6 spells and learning 2 every level like wizard spellbook). That is how I would fix it.
Honestly it wasn't bad at all, I'd just tweak some things like that one discipline that allowed you to do psychic damage without an attack or save. They do get the Mystic equivalent of both Divine Strike and Potent casting, but the Class Variants UA made that a combined ability and you can just make it subclass dependent like the Cleric is RAW.
Yes it was complicated, but it was an entirely new class introducing something not seen before in 5e, it's okay that it takes a little bit to learn it. It was a huge document but the class included 6 subclasses and most of it was just the discipline descriptions, the spell descriptions take up a large section of the phb.
If you're considering this as a DM for players, read through it and decided for yourself what you don't like. If you're concerned it's going to break your game then just impose some common sense rules that weren't applied in the UA because it's a playtest document. My suggestions:
You can't use a Talent, discipline or concentrate on one whilst raging
Multiclassing requires 13 Int, if it really worries you just don't allow multiclassing with Mystic
Disciplines can't be Counter Spelled but they are subject to Dispel Magic and Anti Magic Fields
Probably drop the hp of the wood wall they can make, it's a bit high for the equivalent of a 3rd level spell
I have played, played with and DM'd Mystics and even in the hands of min maxers they never really proved any more of an issue then the other players. I've seen lots of people claim they're broken or OP but I've never seen any arguments that actually stand up to those claims.
Yes it was complicated, but it was an entirely new class introducing something not seen before in 5e, it's okay that it takes a little bit to learn it. It was a huge document but the class included 6 subclasses and most of it was just the discipline descriptions, the spell descriptions take up a large section of the phb.
Spells are used by 8-13 (depends on how you count) different classes. This entirely new system that is just as complicated is only for 1 class.
If you're considering this as a DM for players, read through it and decided for yourself what you don't like. If you're concerned it's going to break your game then just impose some common sense rules that weren't applied in the UA because it's a playtest document. My suggestions:
You can't use a Talent, discipline or concentrate on one whilst raging
Multiclassing requires 13 Int, if it really worries you just don't allow multiclassing with Mystic
I like these, I'm kind of surprised they didn't already include them.
Disciplines can't be Counter Spelled but they are subject to Dispel Magic and Anti Magic Fields
Probably drop the hp of the wood wall they can make, it's a bit high for the equivalent of a 3rd level spell
Might as well make them counterable too. 3 psi points is the equivalent of a level 2 spell. 2 is 1, 3 is 2, 5 is 3, 6 is 4, 7 is 5, 9 is 6, 11 is 8 same as spell points.
Did I mention they get up to 4 level 8 spells per day or can concentrate on up to 11 points worth of spells at 1 time?
Yes it was complicated, but it was an entirely new class introducing something not seen before in 5e, it's okay that it takes a little bit to learn it. It was a huge document but the class included 6 subclasses and most of it was just the discipline descriptions, the spell descriptions take up a large section of the phb.
Spells are used by 8-13 (depends on how you count) different classes. This entirely new system that is just as complicated is only for 1 class.
It's an entirely new system and should be treated as such, the main thing I have taken away from all the UA psionics since then and the Gith is that it feels cheap, you just cast spells with a little twist and that's not satisfying to me. Once the system is in place I'd release a feat or two (Psionic Awakening: req Int 13) to allow some psionic abilities on any character without dipping.
If you're considering this as a DM for players, read through it and decided for yourself what you don't like. If you're concerned it's going to break your game then just impose some common sense rules that weren't applied in the UA because it's a playtest document. My suggestions:
You can't use a Talent, discipline or concentrate on one whilst raging
Multiclassing requires 13 Int, if it really worries you just don't allow multiclassing with Mystic
I like these, I'm kind of surprised they didn't already include them.
I think this is just due to the age of the UA, it came out in 2017, nowadays they're much better about accounting for things like multiclassing and include a lot of sidebars (I think one UA recently addressed not being able to do something in Rage, but I can't remember what).
Disciplines can't be Counter Spelled but they are subject to Dispel Magic and Anti Magic Fields
Probably drop the hp of the wood wall they can make, it's a bit high for the equivalent of a 3rd level spell
Might as well make them counterable too. 3 psi points is the equivalent of a level 2 spell. 2 is 1, 3 is 2, 5 is 3, 6 is 4, 7 is 5, 9 is 6, 11 is 8 same as spell points.
Did I mention they get up to 4 level 8 spells per day or can concentrate on up to 11 points worth of spells at 1 time?
Countering is a bit much in my opinion, there's no visible indication and they aren't spells, I don't think Counter Spell comes up enough in most games to matter, but I think making them uncounterable makes it feel more distinct, but still magical. My bad i was going off memory, I thought it was 5 psi for Wall of Wood.
They don't get level 8 spells at all, one thing I liked about the Mystic was the design choice in higher tiers to move away from linear power increases to smarter play. You don't just get higher slots and more powerful spells, you get the tools to be creative and use what you have in different ways. The Psi limit only goes up to 7, once they hit their equivalent of 5th level spells they stop getting more powerful in the same way a spell caster does.
Psi points is more flexible, but they get less talents than spell casters get cantrips (though they are more powerful to compensate), if you blow through all your psi points for the day going nova, you're down to your talents IF you chose an offensive one (leaving you with no utility or roleplaying talent).
They don't get 11points to use until 15th level, the same time that casters get 8th level spells and even at their highest they can't pull off two 7psi effects at once. Realisitcally you'll be concentrating on maybe two effects which still require action economy to set up and still won't leave you broken OP or even really OP at that level when they're in place.
I'm new to the quoting thing on Beyond (and to behonest not good at it anywhere) so I've put my replies in your quote just in different coloured text.
There was still some stuff about mystic I was misunderstanding (did I mention it was complex?). I'm think I've got the hang of it.
I still think it is more complex than necessary, but it only has a few power balance issues:
The talents bug me. The damaging ones are all save based (no attack) and a little OP while some of the non-damage ones are worse versions of cantrips. I think energy beam is too good and should have damage reduced or make them stick to 1 damage type. I also encourage making new talents and raising number known by 1 (or just shifting known chart down 3 levels).
(Almost) All mystic orders start with 2 bonus disciplines, but 3 disciplines at level 1 is a bit much, move the second to level 3.
Remove mystical recovery
Remove strength of mind
Make potent psionics chose between weapon damage or talent damage, not both.
I don't like consumptive power, but something needs to be there and it isn't too bad.
Remove psionic mastery's clause for concentrating on multiple effects.
Mystic body's d20 to not die is just an extra three times as important death save. I recommend removing it.
Plus the nerfs darkforge mentioned.
Some of the disciplines or order features may also need slight nerfs, but I am not going to check all of those.
There was still some stuff about mystic I was misunderstanding (did I mention it was complex?). I'm think I've got the hang of it.
I still think it is more complex than necessary, but it only has a few power balance issues:
The talents bug me. The damaging ones are all save based (no attack) and a little OP while some of the non-damage ones are worse versions of cantrips. I think energy beam is too good and should have damage reduced or make them stick to 1 damage type. I also encourage making new talents and raising number known by 1 (or just shifting known chart down 3 levels).
(Almost) All mystic orders start with 2 bonus disciplines, but 3 disciplines at level 1 is a bit much, move the second to level 3.
Remove mystical recovery
Remove strength of mind
Make potent psionics chose between weapon damage or talent damage, not both.
I don't like consumptive power, but something needs to be there and it isn't too bad.
Remove psionic mastery's clause for concentrating on multiple effects.
Mystic body's d20 to not die is just an extra three times as important death save. I recommend removing it.
Plus the nerfs darkforge mentioned.
Some of the disciplines or order features may also need slight nerfs, but I am not going to check all of those.
wait what, you get two bonus diciplinces? i thought mystics were supposed to be these more extreme sorcerers who knew only an extremely limited amount of diciplince but knew a lot about how to cast them.
also would'nt it be neat to have the option were if an player so choose, they are allowed to forgo learning a dicipline in exchange for learning two spells from the "psionic" list of spells, and to also impose an restriction like "your disiplinces cannot come from more than three sepperate mystic orders" to further embrace the whole flavour of "psionics are verry specialized, requiring years of mastery, and most will only learn a few of them at a time" wo would that be to much?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
There was still some stuff about mystic I was misunderstanding (did I mention it was complex?). I'm think I've got the hang of it.
I still think it is more complex than necessary, but it only has a few power balance issues:
The talents bug me. The damaging ones are all save based (no attack) and a little OP while some of the non-damage ones are worse versions of cantrips. I think energy beam is too good and should have damage reduced or make them stick to 1 damage type. I also encourage making new talents and raising number known by 1 (or just shifting known chart down 3 levels).
(Almost) All mystic orders start with 2 bonus disciplines, but 3 disciplines at level 1 is a bit much, move the second to level 3.
Remove mystical recovery
Remove strength of mind
Make potent psionics chose between weapon damage or talent damage, not both.
I don't like consumptive power, but something needs to be there and it isn't too bad.
Remove psionic mastery's clause for concentrating on multiple effects.
Mystic body's d20 to not die is just an extra three times as important death save. I recommend removing it.
Plus the nerfs darkforge mentioned.
Some of the disciplines or order features may also need slight nerfs, but I am not going to check all of those.
They're intended to be more powerful than cantrips because you get less of them, if you give access to more then you'd need to adjust everything. Energy beam is good as is, it's designed to be a middle ground, not as much damage or range as Eldritch Blast/Fire Bolt but not as much of a bonus as non straight damage cantrips (Chill Touch etc.), I would make it an attack roll though, it makes more sense and balances out the talents.
Why do you feel the bonus 2 at first level is too much? You can only have one focus active at a time and it basically gives you the ability to 'cast three spells' with your limited points.
I don't feel Mystical Recovery is overpowered as a feature, but it's a bit weird, I'd rather it was rolled into the Immortal Order.
I'd change Strength of mind to long rest changes only, but is there another reason you want to remove it?
Might add a bit more identity to the Orders, but just like the Class Variants UA with the Cleric Wizard's thoughts on this kind of ability seem to have changed. It isn't really an issue power wise, a player will either gravitate to weapons or a damage talent and relgate themselves to using one not the other most of the time anyway.
Rolling a hit die and taking that damage to regain that number or psi points appeals to for Consumptive Power, adds some out of combat management and cuts down on the nova ability a bit for anyone with power concerns.
Do you mean make it so that you can concentrate on multiple effects with your general points? Or that it ends one already started if not made with those points?
Not sure why the Mystic Body roll is an extra 3 time important roll? You'd be dead at that point anyway and this insulates against instadeath.
There was still some stuff about mystic I was misunderstanding (did I mention it was complex?). I'm think I've got the hang of it.
I still think it is more complex than necessary, but it only has a few power balance issues:
The talents bug me. The damaging ones are all save based (no attack) and a little OP while some of the non-damage ones are worse versions of cantrips. I think energy beam is too good and should have damage reduced or make them stick to 1 damage type. I also encourage making new talents and raising number known by 1 (or just shifting known chart down 3 levels).
(Almost) All mystic orders start with 2 bonus disciplines, but 3 disciplines at level 1 is a bit much, move the second to level 3.
Remove mystical recovery
Remove strength of mind
Make potent psionics chose between weapon damage or talent damage, not both.
I don't like consumptive power, but something needs to be there and it isn't too bad.
Remove psionic mastery's clause for concentrating on multiple effects.
Mystic body's d20 to not die is just an extra three times as important death save. I recommend removing it.
Plus the nerfs darkforge mentioned.
Some of the disciplines or order features may also need slight nerfs, but I am not going to check all of those.
wait what, you get two bonus diciplinces? i thought mystics were supposed to be these more extreme sorcerers who knew only an extremely limited amount of diciplince but knew a lot about how to cast them.
also would'nt it be neat to have the option were if an player so choose, they are allowed to forgo learning a dicipline in exchange for learning two spells from the "psionic" list of spells, and to also impose an restriction like "your disiplinces cannot come from more than three sepperate mystic orders" to further embrace the whole flavour of "psionics are verry specialized, requiring years of mastery, and most will only learn a few of them at a time" wo would that be to much?
I'm not sure where the idea of them being limited in what they can 'cast' is to be honest, they're not super limited but they're far more scaled back than a Wizard. You need to consider that a lot of what they can do comes from relatively few disicplines so they end up feeling very specialised. The bonus disciplines have to come from your order, this forces specialisation into each character whilst also making the Psi Knife be more restricted in terms of 'casting' without straight up removing core class options from them as a subclass 'feature.'
What do you mean forgoing learning a discipline to learn more 'psionic spells'?
There was still some stuff about mystic I was misunderstanding (did I mention it was complex?). I'm think I've got the hang of it.
I still think it is more complex than necessary, but it only has a few power balance issues:
The talents bug me. The damaging ones are all save based (no attack) and a little OP while some of the non-damage ones are worse versions of cantrips. I think energy beam is too good and should have damage reduced or make them stick to 1 damage type. I also encourage making new talents and raising number known by 1 (or just shifting known chart down 3 levels).
(Almost) All mystic orders start with 2 bonus disciplines, but 3 disciplines at level 1 is a bit much, move the second to level 3.
Remove mystical recovery
Remove strength of mind
Make potent psionics chose between weapon damage or talent damage, not both.
I don't like consumptive power, but something needs to be there and it isn't too bad.
Remove psionic mastery's clause for concentrating on multiple effects.
Mystic body's d20 to not die is just an extra three times as important death save. I recommend removing it.
Plus the nerfs darkforge mentioned.
Some of the disciplines or order features may also need slight nerfs, but I am not going to check all of those.
wait what, you get two bonus diciplinces? i thought mystics were supposed to be these more extreme sorcerers who knew only an extremely limited amount of diciplince but knew a lot about how to cast them.
also would'nt it be neat to have the option were if an player so choose, they are allowed to forgo learning a dicipline in exchange for learning two spells from the "psionic" list of spells, and to also impose an restriction like "your disiplinces cannot come from more than three sepperate mystic orders" to further embrace the whole flavour of "psionics are verry specialized, requiring years of mastery, and most will only learn a few of them at a time" wo would that be to much?
I'm not sure where the idea of them being limited in what they can 'cast' is to be honest, they're not super limited but they're far more scaled back than a Wizard. You need to consider that a lot of what they can do comes from relatively few disicplines so they end up feeling very specialised. The bonus disciplines have to come from your order, this forces specialisation into each character whilst also making the Psi Knife be more restricted in terms of 'casting' without straight up removing core class options from them as a subclass 'feature.'
What do you mean forgoing learning a discipline to learn more 'psionic spells'?
ya know that super controversial unearthed arcana article that tried to make the psion a wizard subclass? it added a subset of wizard spells it refered to as "psionic spells".
also do y'all think i ought to alter the effect from "mastery of light and darkness" that lets an mystic summon two shadows for only three psi points (in other words a second level spell slot), like it is half as strong as many 3rd and 4th level spells you might argue, but also the creatures summoned are shadows, with strength drain?
also also y'all think sanity could be an effective casting stat for mystic (the optional rule from the DMG)?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
wait what, you get two bonus diciplinces? i thought mystics were supposed to be these more extreme sorcerers who knew only an extremely limited amount of diciplince but knew a lot about how to cast them.
also would'nt it be neat to have the option were if an player so choose, they are allowed to forgo learning a dicipline in exchange for learning two spells from the "psionic" list of spells, and to also impose an restriction like "your disiplinces cannot come from more than three sepperate mystic orders" to further embrace the whole flavour of "psionics are verry specialized, requiring years of mastery, and most will only learn a few of them at a time" wo would that be to much?
Yep, 3 at level 1. More disciplines each with multiple options than a level 1 sorcerer gets leveled spells. But mystics learn new disciplines slowly, so sorcerers tie them at level 3 and overtake them at level 4. And at max level mystics only have 10 disciplines each with 3 to 6 effects to choose from (that admittedly cap at level 5 and are usually weaker than same level spells).
It seems most of the psionic spells are based on discipline abilities from the awakened order anyway, though not always of the same name. For the most part it looks like spell levels were increased, and damage was decreased, but debuffs were extended and they now require concentration. Overall psionic spells have less damage and more effective battlefield control (which I think fits better).
They're intended to be more powerful than cantrips because you get less of them, if you give access to more then you'd need to adjust everything. Energy beam is good as is, it's designed to be a middle ground, not as much damage or range as Eldritch Blast/Fire Bolt but not as much of a bonus as non straight damage cantrips (Chill Touch etc.), I would make it an attack roll though, it makes more sense and balances out the talents.
Why do you feel the bonus 2 at first level is too much? You can only have one focus active at a time and it basically gives you the ability to 'cast three spells' with your limited points.
I don't feel Mystical Recovery is overpowered as a feature, but it's a bit weird, I'd rather it was rolled into the Immortal Order.
I'd change Strength of mind to long rest changes only, but is there another reason you want to remove it?
Might add a bit more identity to the Orders, but just like the Class Variants UA with the Cleric Wizard's thoughts on this kind of ability seem to have changed. It isn't really an issue power wise, a player will either gravitate to weapons or a damage talent and relgate themselves to using one not the other most of the time anyway.
Rolling a hit die and taking that damage to regain that number or psi points appeals to for Consumptive Power, adds some out of combat management and cuts down on the nova ability a bit for anyone with power concerns.
Do you mean make it so that you can concentrate on multiple effects with your general points? Or that it ends one already started if not made with those points?
Not sure why the Mystic Body roll is an extra 3 time important roll? You'd be dead at that point anyway and this insulates against instadeath.
Mind thrust is the talent most based on firebolt. It has the same damage progression and range, it is just INT save instead of attack and psychic instead of fire (so strictly better). My problem with energy beam is it can be any of 5 different damage types to play around weakness and resistance while still having good damage and range. They removed the arcane weapon spell from artificer because doing 1-2d6 of an element of choice for a 1 level slot per combat was too strong, 1-4d8 of an element of choice for free is stronger no?
The mystic is way to front heavy. There isn't a single class that doesn't benefit from a 1 level dip if possible, I'm just trying to limit that by reducing level 1 versatility without reducing the class's high level versatility. I also said to speed up talent learning to balance this.
It is just unnecessary free healing. Mystics already have a few disciplines that give it healing powers, it doesn't need more. Admittedly, the ability isn't that strong per turn, but being able to gain a little HP back whenever it doesn't have something to do with its bonus action, effectively gives it around 20-30 extra HP in tier 3.
Strength of mind could maybe be made a higher level and/or subclass feature, but a level 4 (at the same time you get an ASI) feature that lets you pick save proficiencies. It is literally better than one of the feats and you get it at the same level you choose your first feat.
If they are going to be sticking to one or the other anyway, it shouldn't be a deal breaker to require them to only have one same as the class it borrowed it from. Mystic already has a subclass for every archetypal role, why make the base class that much more versatile?
This sentence is very confused (did you edit it?). There is nothing non-nova about consumptive power. Once per long rest, you can use HP instead of psi points. You can literally reduce your max HP 7 points to be able to heal 7d8 HP or do 7d10 damage, etc. It is an unnecessary extra source of psi points when they are about to be able to make more as an action next level. Speaking of:
Neither (it already does the second thing). [Edit]My recommendation is to remove the whole second paragraph of this feature (see next comment). You should not be allowed to concentrate on as many powers as you want (within a 9-11 point limit).
You know what else protects against instadeath? Being level 20 (you should have no less than 103 HP with +0 CON and nothing can do 206 damage in 1 hit). What the extra roll Mystic Body grants is a fourth death save that can overturn 3 failed saves. It is unnecessary and diminishes the threat of death more than it already is for level 20s.
You know what, after looking into it further, I recommend the full removal of psionic mastery and just replace the psi point number with same level spell point number. It will cut down on complexity, boost action economy (since you are no longer using up to 4 action a day making extra points), balance concentration, and is only slightly different in number than previous psi point limit ending in more points at level 19 and 20 than previously (it is 1-4 points less at level 11, 15, and 17, but again without having to use actions).
by the way you guys you do realize i did read the ua?
again, removing mystic recovery is a must, it is just kinda nessesary / inevetable, even if it is slightly weaker than disciple of lif and blessed healer, two similar features for cleric, it is just not befit the general mystic, more fit for an subclass feature of the immortal
also, the only thing you can really see as "powerful" with energy beam is the fact you can get arround resistance, wich does give it rather much versatillity, but in terms of raw damage it is no more powerful than any other cantrip, maybe if the mystic chooses two or three damage types the spell can deal and it can only deal those types it might be more balanced? again, the warlock gets eldrich blast and the bard gets vicious mockery, two damage types that are rarely resisted, and yet nobody would argue those are op by any strech, and again cantrips 0that deal 1d8 per tier usualy are connected with some decent secondarý effect, like a reduction of speed or preventing reactions,
also psionic focus. I dont know if i should allow it or not, i donno they feel powerful.
also, the list of "psionic spells" from the wizard fighter rouge psion UA sorted an vide variety of existing spells that are "psionically flavoured" like detect thoughts, animate objects, levitate etc, they did not just add new spells. Basically adding more versatillity to the mystic by allowing them more effects in more ways
also how would you all feel about psionc wizard somehow coexisting in an campaign with mystics, would it work with the mystic class being psionics in its "purest form" so to speak and the psion wizard being an sort of blend between the study of psionics and magical energies,
also, do y'all think that it might work for an monk to use a single effect of a single psion disiplince as an elemental disipline, like letting an monk use the "ogre form" or "rapid step" abillity and only that or allowing
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
by the way you guys you do realize i did read the ua?
Yes?
again, removing mystic recovery is a must, it is just kinda nessesary / inevetable, even if it is slightly weaker than disciple of lif and blessed healer, two similar features for cleric, it is just not befit the general mystic, more fit for an subclass feature of the immortal
Agreed.
also, the only thing you can really see as "powerful" with energy beam is the fact you can get arround resistance, wich does give it rather much versatillity, but in terms of raw damage it is no more powerful than any other cantrip, maybe if the mystic chooses two or three damage types the spell can deal and it can only deal those types it might be more balanced? again, the warlock gets eldrich blast and the bard gets vicious mockery, two damage types that are rarely resisted, and yet nobody would argue those are op by any strech, and again cantrips 0that deal 1d8 per tier usualy are connected with some decent secondarý effect, like a reduction of speed or preventing reactions,
There are talents that deal force and psychic damage, those damages are the mystic's bread and butter. D8 cantrips usually only have minor secondary effects like ignoring cover or preventing healing, but given the mystic's small allowance of talents and other damaging talents just being better, I'll retract my suggestion to disallow energy beam.
also psionic focus. I dont know if i should allow it or not, i donno they feel powerful.
There are 40 disciplines and I have not read most of them, but from what I've seen focuses vary from low level static ability (suitable for first 3 levels) to cantrip like powers. And they can only use one at a time. If it seems like a problem, maybe require a short rest to change them instead of a bonus action.
also, the list of "psionic spells" from the wizard fighter rouge psion UA sorted an vide variety of existing spells that are "psionically flavoured" like detect thoughts, animate objects, levitate etc, they did not just add new spells. Basically adding more versatillity to the mystic by allowing them more effects in more ways
Oh, I see the spells you mean now (though animate objects is not on there). I still think that all of the options here are things they can do with disciplines.
also how would you all feel about psionc wizard somehow coexisting in an campaign with mystics, would it work with the mystic class being psionics in its "purest form" so to speak and the psion wizard being an sort of blend between the study of psionics and magical energies,
I like the Psion wizard. Go for it.
also, do y'all think that it might work for an monk to use a single effect of a single psion disiplince as an elemental disipline, like letting an monk use the "ogre form" or "rapid step" abillity and only that or allowing
Rather I think you could straight up make a psionic monk subclass exactly like four elements that chooses a psionic discipline every subclass feature and spends ki as psi points. I want to play that now...
wait what, you get two bonus diciplinces? i thought mystics were supposed to be these more extreme sorcerers who knew only an extremely limited amount of diciplince but knew a lot about how to cast them.
also would'nt it be neat to have the option were if an player so choose, they are allowed to forgo learning a dicipline in exchange for learning two spells from the "psionic" list of spells, and to also impose an restriction like "your disiplinces cannot come from more than three sepperate mystic orders" to further embrace the whole flavour of "psionics are verry specialized, requiring years of mastery, and most will only learn a few of them at a time" wo would that be to much?
Yep, 3 at level 1. More disciplines each with multiple options than a level 1 sorcerer gets leveled spells. But mystics learn new disciplines slowly, so sorcerers tie them at level 3 and overtake them at level 4. And at max level mystics only have 10 disciplines each with 3 to 6 effects to choose from (that admittedly cap at level 5 and are usually weaker than same level spells).
It seems most of the psionic spells are based on discipline abilities from the awakened order anyway, though not always of the same name. For the most part it looks like spell levels were increased, and damage was decreased, but debuffs were extended and they now require concentration. Overall psionic spells have less damage and more effective battlefield control (which I think fits better).
They're intended to be more powerful than cantrips because you get less of them, if you give access to more then you'd need to adjust everything. Energy beam is good as is, it's designed to be a middle ground, not as much damage or range as Eldritch Blast/Fire Bolt but not as much of a bonus as non straight damage cantrips (Chill Touch etc.), I would make it an attack roll though, it makes more sense and balances out the talents.
Why do you feel the bonus 2 at first level is too much? You can only have one focus active at a time and it basically gives you the ability to 'cast three spells' with your limited points.
I don't feel Mystical Recovery is overpowered as a feature, but it's a bit weird, I'd rather it was rolled into the Immortal Order.
I'd change Strength of mind to long rest changes only, but is there another reason you want to remove it?
Might add a bit more identity to the Orders, but just like the Class Variants UA with the Cleric Wizard's thoughts on this kind of ability seem to have changed. It isn't really an issue power wise, a player will either gravitate to weapons or a damage talent and relgate themselves to using one not the other most of the time anyway.
Rolling a hit die and taking that damage to regain that number or psi points appeals to for Consumptive Power, adds some out of combat management and cuts down on the nova ability a bit for anyone with power concerns.
Do you mean make it so that you can concentrate on multiple effects with your general points? Or that it ends one already started if not made with those points?
Not sure why the Mystic Body roll is an extra 3 time important roll? You'd be dead at that point anyway and this insulates against instadeath.
Mind thrust is the talent most based on firebolt. It has the same damage progression and range, it is just INT save instead of attack and psychic instead of fire (so strictly better). My problem with energy beam is it can be any of 5 different damage types to play around weakness and resistance while still having good damage and range. They removed the arcane weapon spell from artificer because doing 1-2d6 of an element of choice for a 1 level slot per combat was too strong, 1-4d8 of an element of choice for free is stronger no?
The mystic is way to front heavy. There isn't a single class that doesn't benefit from a 1 level dip if possible, I'm just trying to limit that by reducing level 1 versatility without reducing the class's high level versatility. I also said to speed up talent learning to balance this.
It is just unnecessary free healing. Mystics already have a few disciplines that give it healing powers, it doesn't need more. Admittedly, the ability isn't that strong per turn, but being able to gain a little HP back whenever it doesn't have something to do with its bonus action, effectively gives it around 20-30 extra HP in tier 3.
Strength of mind could maybe be made a higher level and/or subclass feature, but a level 4 (at the same time you get an ASI) feature that lets you pick save proficiencies. It is literally better than one of the feats and you get it at the same level you choose your first feat.
If they are going to be sticking to one or the other anyway, it shouldn't be a deal breaker to require them to only have one same as the class it borrowed it from. Mystic already has a subclass for every archetypal role, why make the base class that much more versatile?
This sentence is very confused (did you edit it?). There is nothing non-nova about consumptive power. Once per long rest, you can use HP instead of psi points. You can literally reduce your max HP 7 points to be able to heal 7d8 HP or do 7d10 damage, etc. It is an unnecessary extra source of psi points when they are about to be able to make more as an action next level. Speaking of:
Neither (it already does the second thing). [Edit]My recommendation is to remove the whole second paragraph of this feature (see next comment). You should not be allowed to concentrate on as many powers as you want (within a 9-11 point limit).
You know what else protects against instadeath? Being level 20 (you should have no less than 103 HP with +0 CON and nothing can do 206 damage in 1 hit). What the extra roll Mystic Body grants is a fourth death save that can overturn 3 failed saves. It is unnecessary and diminishes the threat of death more than it already is for level 20s.
1) You're right it is closer to Firebolt
2)They're not really more front loaded than a caster, if you take a single dip in Wizard you get 6 spells, ritual casting, 2 1st level slots (with one coming back on a short rest) and 3 cantrips. If you go for a Mystic (not including Psi Knife) you get 3 disciplines and 1 Talent with 4 points per long rest.
3)The Mystic only has one Discipline that restores hp, it requires an action and gives 1d8 per psi point . There's a few that give temp hp, but that's not really the same and the same situation is true on some casters.
4)I can see it being a higher level feature, maybe 7th or 9th level
5)I'm... not sure what you mean, by making potent psionics subclass specific like a Cleric you're actually reducing the versatility of the core class unless you intended to replace it with something
6)I didn't edit it, but I was tired and think I ate a word. My point was to change the ability to a psi regeneration, you burn hit die for points back, it adds longevity throughout the day in tier 3 (at a cost) and by making it cost an action it is much less likely to result in mid combat novas to finish off a boss. I will say that whilst it looks like you have a lot of points (and Psionic Mastery gives more), it's actually very difficult to balance using your abilities and not just burning through your points quickly, in play you either get to nova one combat or do decent all day.
7) To be honest I'm not really understanding your suggestion for replacing the feature so I don't want to comment on it unfairly
8)Your logic is a little flawed, instadeath doesn't require you go from full to -maxhp, it just requires that when you drop the remaining damage equal or exceed your max hp. So in your example a Mystic down to 2 hp need only take 105 damage. That is only one way of instadeath though, you also have Disintegration, Power Word Kill and I'm certain there's multiple monsters with abilities that lead to death instead of death saves. This isn't really that out there for a capstone most people won't reach, the Long Death Monk's drop to 1 ability comes in earlier than that, Half Orcs get Relentless Endurance straight from level 1 etc. The capstone on a Cleric is guaranteed Divine Intervention and a Moon Druid effectively becomes immortal at 20. IMO Psionic Body is a good but not really that powerful or 'flexy' capstone.
5)I'm... not sure what you mean, by making potent psionics subclass specific like a Cleric you're actually reducing the versatility of the core class unless you intended to replace it with something
7) To be honest I'm not really understanding your suggestion for replacing the feature so I don't want to comment on it unfairly
8)Your logic is a little flawed, instadeath doesn't require you go from full to -maxhp, it just requires that when you drop the remaining damage equal or exceed your max hp. So in your example a Mystic down to 2 hp need only take 105 damage. That is only one way of instadeath though, you also have Disintegration, Power Word Kill and I'm certain there's multiple monsters with abilities that lead to death instead of death saves. This isn't really that out there for a capstone most people won't reach, the Long Death Monk's drop to 1 ability comes in earlier than that, Half Orcs get Relentless Endurance straight from level 1 etc. The capstone on a Cleric is guaranteed Divine Intervention and a Moon Druid effectively becomes immortal at 20. IMO Psionic Body is a good but not really that powerful or 'flexy' capstone.
5) The intent is to reduce versatility, yes. It does not need a new feature, just to copy the way cleric does it.
7) My suggestion is to remove Psionic Mastery (maybe replace it with Strength of Mind) and use the spell points by level table from variant rule spell points to make up for the lost psi points.
8) 105 damage in a single hit is also unlikely, though disintegration could happen (I don't think any official monsters have PWK, could be wrong). Moreover the ability just seems off. It is a 55% chance that death saves and instant death meant nothing. The other abilities you mentioned trigger before going down, not after. Maybe it should just be like those and the mystic can teleport away with 1 up left, that would fit. Generally capstones suck so one that gives resistance to all weapons, never die of natural causes, and once a day cheat death is pretty good relatively.
I don't have anything new to add to the other subjects.
okay, it seems we have talked sufficiently about the base mystic and base mystic abillities, lets start talking about individual psionic talents, focues and disiplinces:
-blind spot feels quite potent since if the target fails the wisdom save you gain all the benefits of the doge action, the disengage action and an better version of the true strike catrip all with the same action all at once due to how invisibillity works, but the target does need to fail a save and it is only one target and true strike was bad from the start
-ogre form, for the equiviolent of an 1st level slot, is quite potent, since you might ether see it as variant of the enlarge/reduce spell, or you might see it as an combination of the divine favour and false life spells, two 1st level spell, ether way it feels just a little too strong for its cost, perhaps that is fine due to that disipline not granting any more features until the 7 psi costs start coming out
-brute strike from the brute strength disipline is just out right an worse version of speed dart from nomadic arrow and lethal strike from psionic weapon, bonus action for all of them but only an 1d6 bonus for brute strike and an 1d10 bonus for the other two. Shure brute strength applies to any melee attack weras the other two only apllies to weapons, but unless you are an wu jen with vampiric touch that will never be useful to you
-mastery of light and darkness lets you create two shadow to attack your foes. These things can replicate if the mystic is not careful, and shadows are often described by DM's and players alike for punching slightly above their weight in CR with their potent strength drain that is not nice for STR heavy builds and straight up lethal for low STR builds
-the psionic focus feature of nomadic step is just an more situational version of the celerity psionic focus feature
-the brute force and nomadic step disiplinces have a lot of cheap abillities one can use right after getting them at lvl 1, making them seem like almost too good options.
-unsettling aura from mantle of fear can be really potent in the hands of an archery build, combine it with an high elf and some nomadic arrow and you got yaself some hell of an archer who just cannot be approached quickly
also apparently sorcery points also follow this spell point rule progression, so one might argue that since psi points and sorcery points are supposed to be roughly as potent, one might argue that you could after 10th level give the mystic an 1/long rest use of a single spell from the psionic list that costs psi points after the spell point cost table, and to also give the mystic several metamagic options to spend on these hight level spells once at 11th and once at 17th level, however that would be kinda pointless and would not really make the class more interesting
also i'd say that it is prefectly resonable to replace the lvl 20 capstone with somehting along the lines of "you regain 14 psi points at the end of an short rest and also you stop aging"
also the mighty leap and knock back powers, while not especially powerful, can lead to large amounts of fun, especially if one chooses to play an simic hybrid mystic with celerity and brute force who can jump an large distance directly upwards and then immediately fall to the ground since you fall at a rate of 500 feet per round, thus letting you glide incredebly fast across the battlefield. By the way does the might leap disipline expend movement like a normal jump?
also inertial armor is just an straight up better version of mage armor with 14 + dex and resistance to force damage, the psionic focus for mastery of fire gives you an +2 bonus to fire damage and resistance to fire for some reason and might need nerfing, also should i block psionic focus until you reach 2nd level to prevent multiclass shenanigans, while also making the second level of mystic slightly more appealing now that mystic restoration is gone?
also as for the entire point of having the psionic spell list available in the first place? well the mystic does not really have any illusion capabillities except for delusion, and also lacks several enchantment effects, so that is why an mystic might want to have it
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
also apparently sorcery points also follow this spell point rule progression, so one might argue that since psi points and sorcery points are supposed to be roughly as potent, one might argue that you could after 10th level give the mystic an 1/long rest use of a single spell from the psionic list that costs psi points after the spell point cost table, and to also give the mystic several metamagic options to spend on these hight level spells once at 11th and once at 17th level, however that would be kinda pointless and would not really make the class more interesting
also i'd say that it is prefectly resonable to replace the lvl 20 capstone with somehting along the lines of "you regain 14 psi points at the end of an short rest and also you stop aging"
I think adding metamagic just increases complexity without any real reason. And there is an order that sort of learns spells already.
If the short rest recovery is once per long rest (like a wizard's arcane recovery), then maybe, otherwise too strong.
also the mighty leap and knock back powers, while not especially powerful, can lead to large amounts of fun, especially if one chooses to play an simic hybrid mystic with celerity and brute force who can jump an large distance directly upwards and then immediately fall to the ground since you fall at a rate of 500 feet per round, thus letting you glide incredebly fast across the battlefield. By the way does the might leap disipline expend movement like a normal jump?
Manga glide is horribly explained. I'm pretty sure you are not supposed to be able to fly 1000 feet per turn with a level 1 ability.
Yes, I believe mighty leap does use movement
also inertial armor is just an straight up better version of mage armor with 14 + dex and resistance to force damage, the psionic focus for mastery of fire gives you an +2 bonus to fire damage and resistance to fire for some reason and might need nerfing, also should i block psionic focus until you reach 2nd level to prevent multiclass shenanigans, while also making the second level of mystic slightly more appealing now that mystic restoration is gone?
also as for the entire point of having the psionic spell list available in the first place? well the mystic does not really have any illusion capabillities except for delusion, and also lacks several enchantment effects, so that is why an mystic might want to have it
I don't think the fire focus will be an issue. And I do like the idea of moving focuses back a level (like eldritch invocations).
okay, it seems we have talked sufficiently about the base mystic and base mystic abillities, lets start talking about individual psionic talents, focues and disiplinces:
-blind spot feels quite potent since if the target fails the wisdom save you gain all the benefits of the doge action, the disengage action and an better version of the true strike catrip all with the same action all at once due to how invisibillity works, but the target does need to fail a save and it is only one target and true strike was bad from the start
-ogre form, for the equiviolent of an 1st level slot, is quite potent, since you might ether see it as variant of the enlarge/reduce spell, or you might see it as an combination of the divine favour and false life spells, two 1st level spell, ether way it feels just a little too strong for its cost, perhaps that is fine due to that disipline not granting any more features until the 7 psi costs start coming out
-brute strike from the brute strength disipline is just out right an worse version of speed dart from nomadic arrow and lethal strike from psionic weapon, bonus action for all of them but only an 1d6 bonus for brute strike and an 1d10 bonus for the other two. Shure brute strength applies to any melee attack weras the other two only apllies to weapons, but unless you are an wu jen with vampiric touch that will never be useful to you
-mastery of light and darkness lets you create two shadow to attack your foes. These things can replicate if the mystic is not careful, and shadows are often described by DM's and players alike for punching slightly above their weight in CR with their potent strength drain that is not nice for STR heavy builds and straight up lethal for low STR builds
-the psionic focus feature of nomadic step is just an more situational version of the celerity psionic focus feature
-the brute force and nomadic step disiplinces have a lot of cheap abillities one can use right after getting them at lvl 1, making them seem like almost too good options.
-unsettling aura from mantle of fear can be really potent in the hands of an archery build, combine it with an high elf and some nomadic arrow and you got yaself some hell of an archer who just cannot be approached quickly
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
a really long while ago now, wizards of the coast released an unearthed arcana article regarding the mystic class, and psionics. And that atricle has been widely critizised for being quite unbalanced, to the point where no new version of the class has showed up since then. What was it in particular that made people not like the class? had it to do with a few op class features like mystic recovery, or had it more to do with some core problem, like the class seemingly having a solution to everything or being prone to running out of juice quickly?, and if i were to introduce the class or some homwbrew variant of the class into an game, what precautions am i ought to take to avoid those balance issues?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Geez. How long do you have? First, it was too complicated. It added more rules than spellcasting, but was unique to mystic. It uses something akin to spell points, but different.
Each discipline is essentially multiple spells and a static ability that doesn't use points, and you start with 3 of them... Most of its "spells" are essentially level 1 (or 1/2) that can get up casted. When full casters get 6th level slots, mystics get the ability to concentrate on multiple spells at a time... When full casters get 8th level slots, mystics have 4 8th level uses of extra points that can concentrate on multiple spells. They even get the cleric's both divine strike and potent cantrip features.
The 1 class was 28 pages.
To "fix" it, I say break the disciplines into multiple spells (if necessary some can be 1 spell with multiple options or higher level casting bonuses, might have to make up spell levels), make talents cantrips (easy enough), make the focuses something akin to the warlock invocation list, and just make it a full caster (for fun, and to be closer to UA, make it a learn spells caster like sorcerer, but start it knowing 6 spells and learning 2 every level like wizard spellbook). That is how I would fix it.
Honestly it wasn't bad at all, I'd just tweak some things like that one discipline that allowed you to do psychic damage without an attack or save. They do get the Mystic equivalent of both Divine Strike and Potent casting, but the Class Variants UA made that a combined ability and you can just make it subclass dependent like the Cleric is RAW.
Yes it was complicated, but it was an entirely new class introducing something not seen before in 5e, it's okay that it takes a little bit to learn it. It was a huge document but the class included 6 subclasses and most of it was just the discipline descriptions, the spell descriptions take up a large section of the phb.
If you're considering this as a DM for players, read through it and decided for yourself what you don't like. If you're concerned it's going to break your game then just impose some common sense rules that weren't applied in the UA because it's a playtest document. My suggestions:
I have played, played with and DM'd Mystics and even in the hands of min maxers they never really proved any more of an issue then the other players. I've seen lots of people claim they're broken or OP but I've never seen any arguments that actually stand up to those claims.
Subscribe to our channel for character builds, roleplay and DM tips: www.youtube.com/c/dorkforge
Interested in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Check out our playlist on Youtube
Please feel free to message us with any requests or build challenges!
Spells are used by 8-13 (depends on how you count) different classes. This entirely new system that is just as complicated is only for 1 class.
I like these, I'm kind of surprised they didn't already include them.
Might as well make them counterable too. 3 psi points is the equivalent of a level 2 spell. 2 is 1, 3 is 2, 5 is 3, 6 is 4, 7 is 5, 9 is 6, 11 is 8 same as spell points.
Did I mention they get up to 4 level 8 spells per day or can concentrate on up to 11 points worth of spells at 1 time?
I'm new to the quoting thing on Beyond (and to behonest not good at it anywhere) so I've put my replies in your quote just in different coloured text.
Subscribe to our channel for character builds, roleplay and DM tips: www.youtube.com/c/dorkforge
Interested in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Check out our playlist on Youtube
Please feel free to message us with any requests or build challenges!
There was still some stuff about mystic I was misunderstanding (did I mention it was complex?). I'm think I've got the hang of it.
I still think it is more complex than necessary, but it only has a few power balance issues:
wait what, you get two bonus diciplinces? i thought mystics were supposed to be these more extreme sorcerers who knew only an extremely limited amount of diciplince but knew a lot about how to cast them.
also would'nt it be neat to have the option were if an player so choose, they are allowed to forgo learning a dicipline in exchange for learning two spells from the "psionic" list of spells, and to also impose an restriction like "your disiplinces cannot come from more than three sepperate mystic orders" to further embrace the whole flavour of "psionics are verry specialized, requiring years of mastery, and most will only learn a few of them at a time" wo would that be to much?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Subscribe to our channel for character builds, roleplay and DM tips: www.youtube.com/c/dorkforge
Interested in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Check out our playlist on Youtube
Please feel free to message us with any requests or build challenges!
I'm not sure where the idea of them being limited in what they can 'cast' is to be honest, they're not super limited but they're far more scaled back than a Wizard. You need to consider that a lot of what they can do comes from relatively few disicplines so they end up feeling very specialised. The bonus disciplines have to come from your order, this forces specialisation into each character whilst also making the Psi Knife be more restricted in terms of 'casting' without straight up removing core class options from them as a subclass 'feature.'
What do you mean forgoing learning a discipline to learn more 'psionic spells'?
Subscribe to our channel for character builds, roleplay and DM tips: www.youtube.com/c/dorkforge
Interested in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Check out our playlist on Youtube
Please feel free to message us with any requests or build challenges!
ya know that super controversial unearthed arcana article that tried to make the psion a wizard subclass? it added a subset of wizard spells it refered to as "psionic spells".
also do y'all think i ought to alter the effect from "mastery of light and darkness" that lets an mystic summon two shadows for only three psi points (in other words a second level spell slot), like it is half as strong as many 3rd and 4th level spells you might argue, but also the creatures summoned are shadows, with strength drain?
also also y'all think sanity could be an effective casting stat for mystic (the optional rule from the DMG)?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yep, 3 at level 1. More disciplines each with multiple options than a level 1 sorcerer gets leveled spells. But mystics learn new disciplines slowly, so sorcerers tie them at level 3 and overtake them at level 4. And at max level mystics only have 10 disciplines each with 3 to 6 effects to choose from (that admittedly cap at level 5 and are usually weaker than same level spells).
It seems most of the psionic spells are based on discipline abilities from the awakened order anyway, though not always of the same name. For the most part it looks like spell levels were increased, and damage was decreased, but debuffs were extended and they now require concentration. Overall psionic spells have less damage and more effective battlefield control (which I think fits better).
My recommendation is to remove the whole second paragraph of this feature(see next comment). You should not be allowed to concentrate on as many powers as you want (within a 9-11 point limit).You know what, after looking into it further, I recommend the full removal of psionic mastery and just replace the psi point number with same level spell point number. It will cut down on complexity, boost action economy (since you are no longer using up to 4 action a day making extra points), balance concentration, and is only slightly different in number than previous psi point limit ending in more points at level 19 and 20 than previously (it is 1-4 points less at level 11, 15, and 17, but again without having to use actions).
by the way you guys you do realize i did read the ua?
again, removing mystic recovery is a must, it is just kinda nessesary / inevetable, even if it is slightly weaker than disciple of lif and blessed healer, two similar features for cleric, it is just not befit the general mystic, more fit for an subclass feature of the immortal
also, the only thing you can really see as "powerful" with energy beam is the fact you can get arround resistance, wich does give it rather much versatillity, but in terms of raw damage it is no more powerful than any other cantrip, maybe if the mystic chooses two or three damage types the spell can deal and it can only deal those types it might be more balanced? again, the warlock gets eldrich blast and the bard gets vicious mockery, two damage types that are rarely resisted, and yet nobody would argue those are op by any strech, and again cantrips 0that deal 1d8 per tier usualy are connected with some decent secondarý effect, like a reduction of speed or preventing reactions,
also psionic focus. I dont know if i should allow it or not, i donno they feel powerful.
also, the list of "psionic spells" from the wizard fighter rouge psion UA sorted an vide variety of existing spells that are "psionically flavoured" like detect thoughts, animate objects, levitate etc, they did not just add new spells. Basically adding more versatillity to the mystic by allowing them more effects in more ways
also how would you all feel about psionc wizard somehow coexisting in an campaign with mystics, would it work with the mystic class being psionics in its "purest form" so to speak and the psion wizard being an sort of blend between the study of psionics and magical energies,
also, do y'all think that it might work for an monk to use a single effect of a single psion disiplince as an elemental disipline, like letting an monk use the "ogre form" or "rapid step" abillity and only that or allowing
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yes?
Agreed.
There are talents that deal force and psychic damage, those damages are the mystic's bread and butter. D8 cantrips usually only have minor secondary effects like ignoring cover or preventing healing, but given the mystic's small allowance of talents and other damaging talents just being better, I'll retract my suggestion to disallow energy beam.
There are 40 disciplines and I have not read most of them, but from what I've seen focuses vary from low level static ability (suitable for first 3 levels) to cantrip like powers. And they can only use one at a time. If it seems like a problem, maybe require a short rest to change them instead of a bonus action.
Oh, I see the spells you mean now (though animate objects is not on there). I still think that all of the options here are things they can do with disciplines.
I like the Psion wizard. Go for it.
Rather I think you could straight up make a psionic monk subclass exactly like four elements that chooses a psionic discipline every subclass feature and spends ki as psi points. I want to play that now...
1) You're right it is closer to Firebolt
2)They're not really more front loaded than a caster, if you take a single dip in Wizard you get 6 spells, ritual casting, 2 1st level slots (with one coming back on a short rest) and 3 cantrips. If you go for a Mystic (not including Psi Knife) you get 3 disciplines and 1 Talent with 4 points per long rest.
3)The Mystic only has one Discipline that restores hp, it requires an action and gives 1d8 per psi point . There's a few that give temp hp, but that's not really the same and the same situation is true on some casters.
4)I can see it being a higher level feature, maybe 7th or 9th level
5)I'm... not sure what you mean, by making potent psionics subclass specific like a Cleric you're actually reducing the versatility of the core class unless you intended to replace it with something
6)I didn't edit it, but I was tired and think I ate a word. My point was to change the ability to a psi regeneration, you burn hit die for points back, it adds longevity throughout the day in tier 3 (at a cost) and by making it cost an action it is much less likely to result in mid combat novas to finish off a boss. I will say that whilst it looks like you have a lot of points (and Psionic Mastery gives more), it's actually very difficult to balance using your abilities and not just burning through your points quickly, in play you either get to nova one combat or do decent all day.
7) To be honest I'm not really understanding your suggestion for replacing the feature so I don't want to comment on it unfairly
8)Your logic is a little flawed, instadeath doesn't require you go from full to -maxhp, it just requires that when you drop the remaining damage equal or exceed your max hp. So in your example a Mystic down to 2 hp need only take 105 damage. That is only one way of instadeath though, you also have Disintegration, Power Word Kill and I'm certain there's multiple monsters with abilities that lead to death instead of death saves. This isn't really that out there for a capstone most people won't reach, the Long Death Monk's drop to 1 ability comes in earlier than that, Half Orcs get Relentless Endurance straight from level 1 etc. The capstone on a Cleric is guaranteed Divine Intervention and a Moon Druid effectively becomes immortal at 20. IMO Psionic Body is a good but not really that powerful or 'flexy' capstone.
Subscribe to our channel for character builds, roleplay and DM tips: www.youtube.com/c/dorkforge
Interested in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Check out our playlist on Youtube
Please feel free to message us with any requests or build challenges!
5) The intent is to reduce versatility, yes. It does not need a new feature, just to copy the way cleric does it.
7) My suggestion is to remove Psionic Mastery (maybe replace it with Strength of Mind) and use the spell points by level table from variant rule spell points to make up for the lost psi points.
8) 105 damage in a single hit is also unlikely, though disintegration could happen (I don't think any official monsters have PWK, could be wrong). Moreover the ability just seems off. It is a 55% chance that death saves and instant death meant nothing. The other abilities you mentioned trigger before going down, not after. Maybe it should just be like those and the mystic can teleport away with 1 up left, that would fit. Generally capstones suck so one that gives resistance to all weapons, never die of natural causes, and once a day cheat death is pretty good relatively.
I don't have anything new to add to the other subjects.
okay, it seems we have talked sufficiently about the base mystic and base mystic abillities, lets start talking about individual psionic talents, focues and disiplinces:
-blind spot feels quite potent since if the target fails the wisdom save you gain all the benefits of the doge action, the disengage action and an better version of the true strike catrip all with the same action all at once due to how invisibillity works, but the target does need to fail a save and it is only one target and true strike was bad from the start
-ogre form, for the equiviolent of an 1st level slot, is quite potent, since you might ether see it as variant of the enlarge/reduce spell, or you might see it as an combination of the divine favour and false life spells, two 1st level spell, ether way it feels just a little too strong for its cost, perhaps that is fine due to that disipline not granting any more features until the 7 psi costs start coming out
-brute strike from the brute strength disipline is just out right an worse version of speed dart from nomadic arrow and lethal strike from psionic weapon, bonus action for all of them but only an 1d6 bonus for brute strike and an 1d10 bonus for the other two. Shure brute strength applies to any melee attack weras the other two only apllies to weapons, but unless you are an wu jen with vampiric touch that will never be useful to you
-mastery of light and darkness lets you create two shadow to attack your foes. These things can replicate if the mystic is not careful, and shadows are often described by DM's and players alike for punching slightly above their weight in CR with their potent strength drain that is not nice for STR heavy builds and straight up lethal for low STR builds
-the psionic focus feature of nomadic step is just an more situational version of the celerity psionic focus feature
-the brute force and nomadic step disiplinces have a lot of cheap abillities one can use right after getting them at lvl 1, making them seem like almost too good options.
-unsettling aura from mantle of fear can be really potent in the hands of an archery build, combine it with an high elf and some nomadic arrow and you got yaself some hell of an archer who just cannot be approached quickly
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
also apparently sorcery points also follow this spell point rule progression, so one might argue that since psi points and sorcery points are supposed to be roughly as potent, one might argue that you could after 10th level give the mystic an 1/long rest use of a single spell from the psionic list that costs psi points after the spell point cost table, and to also give the mystic several metamagic options to spend on these hight level spells once at 11th and once at 17th level, however that would be kinda pointless and would not really make the class more interesting
also i'd say that it is prefectly resonable to replace the lvl 20 capstone with somehting along the lines of "you regain 14 psi points at the end of an short rest and also you stop aging"
also the mighty leap and knock back powers, while not especially powerful, can lead to large amounts of fun, especially if one chooses to play an simic hybrid mystic with celerity and brute force who can jump an large distance directly upwards and then immediately fall to the ground since you fall at a rate of 500 feet per round, thus letting you glide incredebly fast across the battlefield. By the way does the might leap disipline expend movement like a normal jump?
also inertial armor is just an straight up better version of mage armor with 14 + dex and resistance to force damage, the psionic focus for mastery of fire gives you an +2 bonus to fire damage and resistance to fire for some reason and might need nerfing, also should i block psionic focus until you reach 2nd level to prevent multiclass shenanigans, while also making the second level of mystic slightly more appealing now that mystic restoration is gone?
also as for the entire point of having the psionic spell list available in the first place? well the mystic does not really have any illusion capabillities except for delusion, and also lacks several enchantment effects, so that is why an mystic might want to have it
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think adding metamagic just increases complexity without any real reason. And there is an order that sort of learns spells already.
If the short rest recovery is once per long rest (like a wizard's arcane recovery), then maybe, otherwise too strong.
Manga glide is horribly explained. I'm pretty sure you are not supposed to be able to fly 1000 feet per turn with a level 1 ability.
Yes, I believe mighty leap does use movement
I don't think the fire focus will be an issue. And I do like the idea of moving focuses back a level (like eldritch invocations).
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes