I am a bit nostalgic for 1st and 2nd edition AD&D.
I'm thinking that I want to eliminate ASI and new feats, unless the character can explain EXACTLY how he attain them.
In other words, a "Wish" spell, a powerful magical artifact, Divine gift, magical elixir, etc...
However, since 5th edition give 2 pts. of ASI or a new feat for every 4 new character levels, I am considering allowing a character to do ASI or get a new
feat IF they spend the XP earned to advance 2 levels to raise one ability score by 1 pt., or spend the XP earned to advance 4 levels to to raise ability scores by 2 pts.
Sounds like a great idea if your plan is to play 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, or if your group is also on board with playing a game that will have PC growth be separated from their levels more than usual.
I wouldn't want to play in a game with this or run a game like this personally; but it's all opinions, and as long as your table shares the same opinions, then it doesn't matter much what I think lol.
I will say that the idea of someone Wishing their ability scores to increase seems...cheap. But again, difference of opinion.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
It makes no common sense that an adventurer would venture out and adventure everyday and the do not increase at all in attributes. Kind of like working out. If your method of working out is to watch workout sessions on TV you attributes will stay the same, in fact your con would go down.
However, they are out there every day fighting and doing. It makes very good sense to raise attributes.
I have hundreds of hours logged playing AD&D and I will never go back, nor would I be willing to play it again
So my biggest complaint about AD&D and the past versions before that is that it was almost impossible to get a point in a stat. You either needed to find a book OR get a wish spell. This didn't make sense since you know a weight lifter doing weight lifting will increase their "strength" score over time. A book nerd reading books all the time will learn more and say gain more "intelligence" Nether of those instances takes them away from what they were normally doing.
This is what ASI is suppose to kind of represent or that random thing you learned cause you have been using that great sword so much you learned how to cleave better or strike harder ( Great Weapon Master )
Its suppose to be something to help compliment and round out your character.
Please note its your game, if you and your players are ok with the idea then run with it. Personally I would never go back to that system cause it does not make sense to me over all and takes away from player agency/choice. And I love player choice cause it will make things interesting. I loved AD&D and grew up on it but it had its own downfalls and issues.
I always thought it was odd in the early editions that no one got better at what they did. Wizards reading books all day and never get smarter. Fighters walking around under a suit of plate mail with an armory strapped to their backs and never getting stronger. It never made sense.
As for 5e, I will note the asi are assumed in the game's math when it comes to the monsters. It generally expects you to have a 20, or at least an 18 in your prime combat star by level 8. if you have characters sitting on a 15 they got from their array, they may have problems hitting.
And I'm not sure how your system would work in practice. At level 4, they can go back to level 1 in exchange for the 2 asi points? Then what, you scale back the encounters to the kinds of things they were fighting two levels ago? Or you just kill them because they'll be first level characters facing CR 5 enemies? Or do they stay level 4 and just have no xp, and it will take them forever to get to level 5, and you have to make them keep fighting level 4 encounters that whole time? And what if different players do different things, so you end up with people at different levels? That worked in the old editions, heck, it was required in 1e, but it doesn't really work that way now. Either the higher-level character will mop up low challenge enemies, or the lower-level character will be useless and hiding in a corner against high challenge enemies.
I think, if you want to go with the model, you might be better off just playing 1 or 2 e, where the game is designed around that. Otherwise, there's a lot of knock-on side effects that can happen by trying to put the system on 5e that will make it a very unbalanced experience.
I set it up so everyone gets a point every few levels, automatically. only one point, so 5 is the max. And they get points from background and stuff.
They also get a feat. By 20th level they will have five feats and five increases. Staggered.
Because the way the game is set up, that is a major advancement tool for the characters, in terms of mechanics, and taking it out would have an impact that ripples through combat and class features, as well.
But I also am the one getting yelled at in another thread because I asked how people balance martials and spellcasters and everyone is more focused on my example than the actual question.
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Only a DM since 1980 (2000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA
It makes no common sense that an adventurer would venture out and adventure everyday and the do not increase at all in attributes. Kind of like working out. If your method of working out is to watch workout sessions on TV you attributes will stay the same, in fact your con would go down.
However, they are out there every day fighting and doing. It makes very good sense to raise attributes.
I have hundreds of hours logged playing AD&D and I will never go back, nor would I be willing to play it again
This really depends on your headcannon on what attributes represent. It may be impossible to gain attrivutes if they represent your peak potential, and that characters are assumed to be people operating at their peak.
Doing more pushups isn't going to help you get stronger if we assume you're already doing hella pushups and are at the best shape of your character's life.
And, whats more is some of the stats are intrinsically tied to traits that you can't train to get better at. Strength is one where it makes some sense that you can improve it. But intelligence not so much.
You'd need some magical intervention to make some stat bumps make sense.
Which. Funny enough. Also makes perfect sense in a magical fantasy world. Maybe the wizards of the world can learn complex suplemental enchantments that permanently enhance their ability to hold complex formulas in their mind and puzzle through difficult logic problems. Maybe paladins are blessed by their gods to enhance their presence if self and social influence for dedication to an oath.
There is no reason to think a fantasy setting character is limited in their self growth like we are IRL.
Drakkon, your answer was probably one of the best that I've gotten on this platform or any other. I didn't think about some of the things you said. However, I did mention that a character can increase their ability scores like strength, charisma, or whatever by using XP. If they want to ASI for a 1 pt. increase, then they can spend the equivalent of 2 "new" levels of XP, and buy a 1 pt. increase. If they want to ASI by 2 pts. every 4 new character levels or get a new feat, like the 5th edition suggests, they can do that, BUT they would have to spend the equivalent of 4 levels of new XP. 1st and 2nd edition made it very difficult to increase your ability scores, and 5th edition makes it too easy. So I found "the middle ground." You can increase your ability scores or gain a new feat anytime you want, BUT you will have to spend new XP, instead of advancing to the next level.
HA HA HA HA. I'm not laughing at you! I am laughing with you!!! That's my experience too. If you try to do anything different, everyone wants to tear your head off.
It makes no common sense that an adventurer would venture out and adventure everyday and the do not increase at all in attributes. Kind of like working out. If your method of working out is to watch workout sessions on TV you attributes will stay the same, in fact your con would go down.
However, they are out there every day fighting and doing. It makes very good sense to raise attributes.
I have hundreds of hours logged playing AD&D and I will never go back, nor would I be willing to play it again
This really depends on your headcannon on what attributes represent. It may be impossible to gain attrivutes if they represent your peak potential, and that characters are assumed to be people operating at their peak.
Doing more pushups isn't going to help you get stronger if we assume you're already doing hella pushups and are at the best shape of your character's life.
And, whats more is some of the stats are intrinsically tied to traits that you can't train to get better at. Strength is one where it makes some sense that you can improve it. But intelligence not so much.
You'd need some magical intervention to make some stat bumps make sense.
Which. Funny enough. Also makes perfect sense in a magical fantasy world. Maybe the wizards of the world can learn complex suplemental enchantments that permanently enhance their ability to hold complex formulas in their mind and puzzle through difficult logic problems. Maybe paladins are blessed by their gods to enhance their presence if self and social influence for dedication to an oath.
There is no reason to think a fantasy setting character is limited in their self growth like we are IRL.
You can't get smarter. Ever. Nothing short of magic can improve your critical thinking. You cannot train to have a better memory, you cannot gain wisdom with experience, and you cannot learn the intricacies of social exchanges. The only way a person can ever improve is by doing pushups.
What are you talking about?
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
One potential problem is that 5e is set up to have your abilities increase as you level. The game's built with the assumption that most adventurers are going to get peak ability scores for their class about 8th level. If you take that out/twiddle with it you may end up having to re balance other things. It may or may not be a problem - if you're experienced with 1e and 2e you're presumably used to house ruling just about everything and balancing things on the hoof.
This last bit may not be seen as helpful... if you're nostalgic for a particular game system why not play that rather than 5e? You can get all the resources you need (and then some for 2e) from DriveThroughRPG or auction web sites/second hand book shops pretty cheaply.
It makes no common sense that an adventurer would venture out and adventure everyday and the do not increase at all in attributes. Kind of like working out. If your method of working out is to watch workout sessions on TV you attributes will stay the same, in fact your con would go down.
However, they are out there every day fighting and doing. It makes very good sense to raise attributes.
I have hundreds of hours logged playing AD&D and I will never go back, nor would I be willing to play it again
This really depends on your headcannon on what attributes represent. It may be impossible to gain attrivutes if they represent your peak potential, and that characters are assumed to be people operating at their peak.
Doing more pushups isn't going to help you get stronger if we assume you're already doing hella pushups and are at the best shape of your character's life.
And, whats more is some of the stats are intrinsically tied to traits that you can't train to get better at. Strength is one where it makes some sense that you can improve it. But intelligence not so much.
You'd need some magical intervention to make some stat bumps make sense.
Which. Funny enough. Also makes perfect sense in a magical fantasy world. Maybe the wizards of the world can learn complex suplemental enchantments that permanently enhance their ability to hold complex formulas in their mind and puzzle through difficult logic problems. Maybe paladins are blessed by their gods to enhance their presence if self and social influence for dedication to an oath.
There is no reason to think a fantasy setting character is limited in their self growth like we are IRL.
You can't get smarter. Ever. Nothing short of magic can improve your critical thinking. You cannot train to have a better memory, you cannot gain wisdom with experience, and you cannot learn the intricacies of social exchanges. The only way a person can ever improve is by doing pushups.
What are you talking about?
Have you not spent any time around people? These things do not just passively improve over time. If anything people fade as they age and their stats should decay, not increase.
Fighting to improve capability while time is robbing it away is an uphill battle. It doesn't happen.
Though it could in a magical fantasy world, because magic.
It makes no common sense that an adventurer would venture out and adventure everyday and the do not increase at all in attributes. Kind of like working out. If your method of working out is to watch workout sessions on TV you attributes will stay the same, in fact your con would go down.
However, they are out there every day fighting and doing. It makes very good sense to raise attributes.
I have hundreds of hours logged playing AD&D and I will never go back, nor would I be willing to play it again
This really depends on your headcannon on what attributes represent. It may be impossible to gain attrivutes if they represent your peak potential, and that characters are assumed to be people operating at their peak.
Doing more pushups isn't going to help you get stronger if we assume you're already doing hella pushups and are at the best shape of your character's life.
And, whats more is some of the stats are intrinsically tied to traits that you can't train to get better at. Strength is one where it makes some sense that you can improve it. But intelligence not so much.
You'd need some magical intervention to make some stat bumps make sense.
Which. Funny enough. Also makes perfect sense in a magical fantasy world. Maybe the wizards of the world can learn complex suplemental enchantments that permanently enhance their ability to hold complex formulas in their mind and puzzle through difficult logic problems. Maybe paladins are blessed by their gods to enhance their presence if self and social influence for dedication to an oath.
There is no reason to think a fantasy setting character is limited in their self growth like we are IRL.
You can't get smarter. Ever. Nothing short of magic can improve your critical thinking. You cannot train to have a better memory, you cannot gain wisdom with experience, and you cannot learn the intricacies of social exchanges. The only way a person can ever improve is by doing pushups.
What are you talking about?
Have you not spent any time around people? These things do not just passively improve over time. If anything people fade as they age and their stats should decay, not increase.
Fighting to improve capability while time is robbing it away is an uphill battle. It doesn't happen.
Though it could in a magical fantasy world, because magic.
Then, in our world (a low-magic setting), how does anybody ever get good at anything? According to you, time robs away all capabilities faster than it is possible to train them. Yet we somehow have people that manage to be smarter, stronger, swifter, wiser, more robust, and more charismatic than the day they were born. Riddle me that.
I am not saying that people passively improve over time (except in Wisdom). I am saying that an adventurer, who is constantly testing the limits of both their body and their mind, can probably improve at the bodily functions that they rely on.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Have you not spent any time around people? These things do not just passively improve over time. If anything people fade as they age and their stats should decay, not increase.
Fighting to improve capability while time is robbing it away is an uphill battle. It doesn't happen.
Though it could in a magical fantasy world, because magic.
How many of them live the typical lives of adventurers? And are you arguing that people become more foolish over time?
That isn't really a line of inquiry I feel comfortable being pushed on this hard. My grandmother had a very steep mental decline over the years, starting fairly early, long before someone would be called elderly. So yes. Yes in my experience people lose more than they grow.
By the time you're an adult you're locked in, at your peak. Time only robs from you from there.
But that's why we play a fantasy game. With make believe and magic. Because in these worlds people can escape such fates.
But realistically, the only attribute that people in real life can imporive dramatically is strength. You work out, you gain weight, you get stronger. It is straightforward. And there are all sorts of stories of super scrawny people working out for years and going from frail to jacked. There are nearly zero stories of people studying really hard and going ffeom mentally disabled to solving millennium problems. Maybe....maybe you can keep the decline at bay. But you're not going from dull to genius. It just doesn't happen. But going from repping 15 lbs to 200lbs curls? Totally doable.
Strength is the only attribute where real world people can realistically change and change dramatically. And in a positive direction.
Because life events can certainly cause a loss. Illness and disuse, drugs or lifestyle choices, all can lead to a loss. A decay. You stay sedentary and eat unhealthy and you'd find your corollary of str, dex, and con to all fall off. You get sick and you find them to fall off. You get older and muddled as time ravages your mind and your mental stat corollaries fall off too. These things don't get better with practice. You're at your peak as a young adult and then they wither away with time.
Have you not spent any time around people? These things do not just passively improve over time. If anything people fade as they age and their stats should decay, not increase.
Fighting to improve capability while time is robbing it away is an uphill battle. It doesn't happen.
Though it could in a magical fantasy world, because magic.
How many of them live the typical lives of adventurers? And are you arguing that people become more foolish over time?
By the time you're an adult you're locked in, at your peak. Time only robs from you from there.
You clearly don't want to be convinced, so I suppose I'll just say "bullshit" and leave it at that.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
It makes no common sense that an adventurer would venture out and adventure everyday and the do not increase at all in attributes. Kind of like working out. If your method of working out is to watch workout sessions on TV you attributes will stay the same, in fact your con would go down.
However, they are out there every day fighting and doing. It makes very good sense to raise attributes.
I have hundreds of hours logged playing AD&D and I will never go back, nor would I be willing to play it again
This really depends on your headcannon on what attributes represent. It may be impossible to gain attrivutes if they represent your peak potential, and that characters are assumed to be people operating at their peak.
Doing more pushups isn't going to help you get stronger if we assume you're already doing hella pushups and are at the best shape of your character's life.
And, whats more is some of the stats are intrinsically tied to traits that you can't train to get better at. Strength is one where it makes some sense that you can improve it. But intelligence not so much.
You'd need some magical intervention to make some stat bumps make sense.
Which. Funny enough. Also makes perfect sense in a magical fantasy world. Maybe the wizards of the world can learn complex suplemental enchantments that permanently enhance their ability to hold complex formulas in their mind and puzzle through difficult logic problems. Maybe paladins are blessed by their gods to enhance their presence if self and social influence for dedication to an oath.
There is no reason to think a fantasy setting character is limited in their self growth like we are IRL.
You can't get smarter. Ever. Nothing short of magic can improve your critical thinking. You cannot train to have a better memory, you cannot gain wisdom with experience, and you cannot learn the intricacies of social exchanges. The only way a person can ever improve is by doing pushups.
What are you talking about?
Have you not spent any time around people? These things do not just passively improve over time. If anything people fade as they age and their stats should decay, not increase.
Fighting to improve capability while time is robbing it away is an uphill battle. It doesn't happen.
Though it could in a magical fantasy world, because magic.
Then, in our world (a low-magic setting), how does anybody ever get good at anything? According to you, time robs away all capabilities faster than it is possible to train them. Yet we somehow have people that manage to be smarter, stronger, swifter, wiser, more robust, and more charismatic than the day they were born. Riddle me that.
I am not saying that people passively improve over time (except in Wisdom). I am saying that an adventurer, who is constantly testing the limits of both their body and their mind, can probably improve at the bodily functions that they rely on.
The day they were born, sure. But not when they're in their prime. The same age adventurers are assumed to be.
If you're trying to play a character who isn't finished becoming an adult yet that's a whole different bag of worms.
Ok, I will play, and since I do pretty much a mix of all the forms, I will just go for into it.
First, you have to set some ground rules, and setting them would be the hardest part for everyone due to the philosophical differences involved. Yet if you cannot agree on the baselines, you won't be able to make practical arguments and effective efforts to change the minds of others. So, here we go:
First, recognize that an Average person of a given world is mechanically based on a human lifespan. So you need to know what an average human is for the world, and it should include how long they live in that world. We can use a baseline lifespan of 100 years, since it is a practical and commonly used baseline regardless of the world.
What are the stats of an average newborn (up to 6 months old)?
What are the stats of an average 10 year old?
What are the stats of an average 16 year old?
What are the stats of an Average 30 year old?
What are the stats of an average 50 year old?
What are the stats of an average 75 year old?
What are the stats of an average 90 year old?
The degree to which these scores change (if they do) will have an impact on the arguments, even if one accepts the premise that Adventurers are Exceptional members of the people, and even if one steps outside the confines of humans (for example, Tolkien's long lived elves) because in the game, the baseline is still humans.
Now, in the game, RAW, are their changes to the scores of these stats over time to regular people? If so, then it becomes reasonable to presume they change for Adventurers. If they do not, then it is unreasonable to assume they change for them.
In 1e, your score was your score. Dead stop. You could increase it through the use of magical items (books and tomes to increase wisdom and intelligence, girdles and rings and bracers for physical stuff). But you could not increase it by turning to working out or whatever.
in 2e, they introduced ways to improve those scores, up to a maximum of 20 or 24, but still mostly relied on magical enhancement.
Now, these are the baselines. To effectively have the conversation, you should know these things and be able to compare and contrast.
Hope this helps!
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Only a DM since 1980 (2000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA
One of my DMs has a house rule that instead of gaining a +2 to allocate in stats or one feat, we gain a +1 to put in any stat + a feat. That way we can always have feats and increase a stat without disrupting base power. Half-feats are allowed and even encouraged, because it’s the only way to actually allocate +2 in a stat by his rules.
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Hi.
I am a bit nostalgic for 1st and 2nd edition AD&D.
I'm thinking that I want to eliminate ASI and new feats, unless the character can explain EXACTLY how he attain them.
In other words, a "Wish" spell, a powerful magical artifact, Divine gift, magical elixir, etc...
However, since 5th edition give 2 pts. of ASI or a new feat for every 4 new character levels, I am considering allowing a character to do ASI or get a new
feat IF they spend the XP earned to advance 2 levels to raise one ability score by 1 pt., or spend the XP earned to advance 4 levels to to raise ability scores by 2 pts.
or to buy a new feat.
These guys are saying almost the same thing about feats as I am. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dyEkUiH2nc&t=8s
Your opinion?????
Sounds like a great idea if your plan is to play 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, or if your group is also on board with playing a game that will have PC growth be separated from their levels more than usual.
I wouldn't want to play in a game with this or run a game like this personally; but it's all opinions, and as long as your table shares the same opinions, then it doesn't matter much what I think lol.
I will say that the idea of someone Wishing their ability scores to increase seems...cheap. But again, difference of opinion.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
It makes no common sense that an adventurer would venture out and adventure everyday and the do not increase at all in attributes. Kind of like working out. If your method of working out is to watch workout sessions on TV you attributes will stay the same, in fact your con would go down.
However, they are out there every day fighting and doing. It makes very good sense to raise attributes.
I have hundreds of hours logged playing AD&D and I will never go back, nor would I be willing to play it again
So my biggest complaint about AD&D and the past versions before that is that it was almost impossible to get a point in a stat. You either needed to find a book OR get a wish spell. This didn't make sense since you know a weight lifter doing weight lifting will increase their "strength" score over time. A book nerd reading books all the time will learn more and say gain more "intelligence" Nether of those instances takes them away from what they were normally doing.
This is what ASI is suppose to kind of represent or that random thing you learned cause you have been using that great sword so much you learned how to cleave better or strike harder ( Great Weapon Master )
Its suppose to be something to help compliment and round out your character.
Please note its your game, if you and your players are ok with the idea then run with it. Personally I would never go back to that system cause it does not make sense to me over all and takes away from player agency/choice. And I love player choice cause it will make things interesting. I loved AD&D and grew up on it but it had its own downfalls and issues.
I always thought it was odd in the early editions that no one got better at what they did. Wizards reading books all day and never get smarter. Fighters walking around under a suit of plate mail with an armory strapped to their backs and never getting stronger. It never made sense.
As for 5e, I will note the asi are assumed in the game's math when it comes to the monsters. It generally expects you to have a 20, or at least an 18 in your prime combat star by level 8. if you have characters sitting on a 15 they got from their array, they may have problems hitting.
And I'm not sure how your system would work in practice. At level 4, they can go back to level 1 in exchange for the 2 asi points? Then what, you scale back the encounters to the kinds of things they were fighting two levels ago? Or you just kill them because they'll be first level characters facing CR 5 enemies? Or do they stay level 4 and just have no xp, and it will take them forever to get to level 5, and you have to make them keep fighting level 4 encounters that whole time? And what if different players do different things, so you end up with people at different levels? That worked in the old editions, heck, it was required in 1e, but it doesn't really work that way now. Either the higher-level character will mop up low challenge enemies, or the lower-level character will be useless and hiding in a corner against high challenge enemies.
I think, if you want to go with the model, you might be better off just playing 1 or 2 e, where the game is designed around that. Otherwise, there's a lot of knock-on side effects that can happen by trying to put the system on 5e that will make it a very unbalanced experience.
I set it up so everyone gets a point every few levels, automatically. only one point, so 5 is the max. And they get points from background and stuff.
They also get a feat. By 20th level they will have five feats and five increases. Staggered.
Because the way the game is set up, that is a major advancement tool for the characters, in terms of mechanics, and taking it out would have an impact that ripples through combat and class features, as well.
But I also am the one getting yelled at in another thread because I asked how people balance martials and spellcasters and everyone is more focused on my example than the actual question.
Only a DM since 1980 (2000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA
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This really depends on your headcannon on what attributes represent. It may be impossible to gain attrivutes if they represent your peak potential, and that characters are assumed to be people operating at their peak.
Doing more pushups isn't going to help you get stronger if we assume you're already doing hella pushups and are at the best shape of your character's life.
And, whats more is some of the stats are intrinsically tied to traits that you can't train to get better at. Strength is one where it makes some sense that you can improve it. But intelligence not so much.
You'd need some magical intervention to make some stat bumps make sense.
Which. Funny enough. Also makes perfect sense in a magical fantasy world. Maybe the wizards of the world can learn complex suplemental enchantments that permanently enhance their ability to hold complex formulas in their mind and puzzle through difficult logic problems. Maybe paladins are blessed by their gods to enhance their presence if self and social influence for dedication to an oath.
There is no reason to think a fantasy setting character is limited in their self growth like we are IRL.
I got quotes!
Dude, thank you! Your opinion was refreshing. I just wanted a non-critical, relevant opinion, and that is exactly what you gave me.
Drakkon, your answer was probably one of the best that I've gotten on this platform or any other. I didn't think about some of the things you said. However, I did mention that a character can increase their ability scores like strength, charisma, or whatever by using XP. If they want to ASI for a 1 pt. increase, then they can spend the equivalent of 2 "new" levels of XP, and buy a 1 pt. increase. If they want to ASI by 2 pts. every 4 new character levels or get a new feat, like the 5th edition suggests, they can do that, BUT they would have to spend the equivalent of 4 levels of new XP. 1st and 2nd edition made it very difficult to increase your ability scores, and 5th edition makes it too easy. So I found "the middle ground." You can increase your ability scores or gain a new feat anytime you want, BUT you will have to spend new XP, instead of advancing to the next level.
HA HA HA HA. I'm not laughing at you! I am laughing with you!!! That's my experience too. If you try to do anything different, everyone wants to tear your head off.
Thank you so much for you input.
You can't get smarter. Ever. Nothing short of magic can improve your critical thinking. You cannot train to have a better memory, you cannot gain wisdom with experience, and you cannot learn the intricacies of social exchanges. The only way a person can ever improve is by doing pushups.
What are you talking about?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
One potential problem is that 5e is set up to have your abilities increase as you level. The game's built with the assumption that most adventurers are going to get peak ability scores for their class about 8th level. If you take that out/twiddle with it you may end up having to re balance other things. It may or may not be a problem - if you're experienced with 1e and 2e you're presumably used to house ruling just about everything and balancing things on the hoof.
This last bit may not be seen as helpful... if you're nostalgic for a particular game system why not play that rather than 5e? You can get all the resources you need (and then some for 2e) from DriveThroughRPG or auction web sites/second hand book shops pretty cheaply.
Have you not spent any time around people? These things do not just passively improve over time. If anything people fade as they age and their stats should decay, not increase.
Fighting to improve capability while time is robbing it away is an uphill battle. It doesn't happen.
Though it could in a magical fantasy world, because magic.
I got quotes!
Then, in our world (a low-magic setting), how does anybody ever get good at anything? According to you, time robs away all capabilities faster than it is possible to train them. Yet we somehow have people that manage to be smarter, stronger, swifter, wiser, more robust, and more charismatic than the day they were born. Riddle me that.
I am not saying that people passively improve over time (except in Wisdom). I am saying that an adventurer, who is constantly testing the limits of both their body and their mind, can probably improve at the bodily functions that they rely on.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I will note, at the pleasant stage where things are "downhill" going forward, that Wisdom is NOT passively improved over time.
Only a DM since 1980 (2000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA
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Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
That isn't really a line of inquiry I feel comfortable being pushed on this hard. My grandmother had a very steep mental decline over the years, starting fairly early, long before someone would be called elderly. So yes. Yes in my experience people lose more than they grow.
By the time you're an adult you're locked in, at your peak. Time only robs from you from there.
But that's why we play a fantasy game. With make believe and magic. Because in these worlds people can escape such fates.
But realistically, the only attribute that people in real life can imporive dramatically is strength. You work out, you gain weight, you get stronger. It is straightforward. And there are all sorts of stories of super scrawny people working out for years and going from frail to jacked. There are nearly zero stories of people studying really hard and going ffeom mentally disabled to solving millennium problems. Maybe....maybe you can keep the decline at bay. But you're not going from dull to genius. It just doesn't happen. But going from repping 15 lbs to 200lbs curls? Totally doable.
Strength is the only attribute where real world people can realistically change and change dramatically. And in a positive direction.
Because life events can certainly cause a loss. Illness and disuse, drugs or lifestyle choices, all can lead to a loss. A decay. You stay sedentary and eat unhealthy and you'd find your corollary of str, dex, and con to all fall off. You get sick and you find them to fall off. You get older and muddled as time ravages your mind and your mental stat corollaries fall off too. These things don't get better with practice. You're at your peak as a young adult and then they wither away with time.
But with magic? All things are possible.
I got quotes!
You clearly don't want to be convinced, so I suppose I'll just say "bullshit" and leave it at that.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The day they were born, sure. But not when they're in their prime. The same age adventurers are assumed to be.
If you're trying to play a character who isn't finished becoming an adult yet that's a whole different bag of worms.
I got quotes!
Ok, I will play, and since I do pretty much a mix of all the forms, I will just go for into it.
First, you have to set some ground rules, and setting them would be the hardest part for everyone due to the philosophical differences involved. Yet if you cannot agree on the baselines, you won't be able to make practical arguments and effective efforts to change the minds of others. So, here we go:
First, recognize that an Average person of a given world is mechanically based on a human lifespan. So you need to know what an average human is for the world, and it should include how long they live in that world. We can use a baseline lifespan of 100 years, since it is a practical and commonly used baseline regardless of the world.
What are the stats of an average newborn (up to 6 months old)?
What are the stats of an average 10 year old?
What are the stats of an average 16 year old?
What are the stats of an Average 30 year old?
What are the stats of an average 50 year old?
What are the stats of an average 75 year old?
What are the stats of an average 90 year old?
The degree to which these scores change (if they do) will have an impact on the arguments, even if one accepts the premise that Adventurers are Exceptional members of the people, and even if one steps outside the confines of humans (for example, Tolkien's long lived elves) because in the game, the baseline is still humans.
Now, in the game, RAW, are their changes to the scores of these stats over time to regular people? If so, then it becomes reasonable to presume they change for Adventurers. If they do not, then it is unreasonable to assume they change for them.
In 1e, your score was your score. Dead stop. You could increase it through the use of magical items (books and tomes to increase wisdom and intelligence, girdles and rings and bracers for physical stuff). But you could not increase it by turning to working out or whatever.
in 2e, they introduced ways to improve those scores, up to a maximum of 20 or 24, but still mostly relied on magical enhancement.
Now, these are the baselines. To effectively have the conversation, you should know these things and be able to compare and contrast.
Hope this helps!
Only a DM since 1980 (2000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA
Wyrlde.com
Free PDFs
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
One of my DMs has a house rule that instead of gaining a +2 to allocate in stats or one feat, we gain a +1 to put in any stat + a feat. That way we can always have feats and increase a stat without disrupting base power. Half-feats are allowed and even encouraged, because it’s the only way to actually allocate +2 in a stat by his rules.