Let's say a creature or character has the ability to enter the Ethereal Plane as an action. Would a previously cast spell still work? For example if it had a target caught by hold person and then entered the Ethereal Plane, would the target stay paralyzed?
Nothing about the ethereal plane explicitly dispels existing spells or anything of that nature. So if you were to Plane Shift there, that won't do anything for you, nor would anything like a Phase Spider's ability. You'd have to rely on the wording of the individual feature that transports you to the Ethereal Plane. Though it is important to note that any feature that relies on range, such as Witch Bolt, will stop working if the target moves to a different plane than the caster.
The spell Etherealness has a line that says "Creatures that aren't on the Ethereal Plane can't perceive you and can't interact with you". I would argue that once a spell like Hold Person takes effect, the caster is no longer actively interacting with the target, so it wouldn't be canceled in any way. But I could also see the opposite argument - that by holding concentration on the spell, the caster is still "interacting" with the target.
It sort of depends on your exact interpretation of that phrase. But again - that's only if the target uses that specific spell to enter the Ethereal Plane.
Let's say a creature or character has the ability to enter the Ethereal Plane as an action. Would a previously cast spell still work? For example if it had a target caught by hold person and then entered the Ethereal Plane, would the target stay paralyzed?
As written shifting planes of existance doesn't explicitly break concentration, unless the DM rule otherwise.
Concentration: The DM might also decide that certain environmental phenomena, such as a wave crashing over you while you’re on a storm-tossed ship, require you to succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on a spell.
Certain spells (and possibly effects) say that they only work if you are on the same plane. If Hold Person doesn't have any such limitation, then it will work.
Also important to note that force effects can impact the border ethereal just fine. And, see invisibility can let you see stuff there too. The border ethereal is both a different plane but also next to you still. The witch bolt example is certainly a fuzzy one. You could be looking right at a ghost 10 ft away from you if you can See Invisibility. But, since it is also on the ethereal plane... is it 10ft away or no? 5e doesn't hash out these complications for the ethereal plane very well.
Also important to note that force effects can impact the border ethereal just fine. And, see invisibility can let you see stuff there too. The border ethereal is both a different plane but also next to you still. The witch bolt example is certainly a fuzzy one. You could be looking right at a ghost 10 ft away from you if you can See Invisibility. But, since it is also on the ethereal plane... is it 10ft away or no?
I'd say if the creature is not on the same plane of existance as you, it's not within 10 feet of you.
Also important to note that force effects can impact the border ethereal just fine. And, see invisibility can let you see stuff there too. The border ethereal is both a different plane but also next to you still. The witch bolt example is certainly a fuzzy one. You could be looking right at a ghost 10 ft away from you if you can See Invisibility. But, since it is also on the ethereal plane... is it 10ft away or no?
I'd say if the creature is not on the same plane of existance as you, it's not within 10 feet of you.
So a creature that attacks you while on the border ethereal can't hit you because even if it is adjacent to you it isn't actually within reach?
This is the problem they created when they tried to force the border ethereal into the same box as other planes for 5e. The places in one are the same places in the other, they're overlapping and on top of one another.
If you can see it 5 ft away. That ghost IS 5 ft away. Even if it is on the ethereal plane he's going to ruin your day.
So a creature that attacks you while on the border ethereal can't hit you because even if it is adjacent to you it isn't actually within reach?
This is the problem they created when they tried to force the border ethereal into the same box as other planes for 5e. The places in one are the same places in the other, they're overlapping and on top of one another.
If you can see it 5 ft away. That ghost IS 5 ft away. Even if it is on the ethereal plane he's going to ruin your day.
Creature that can attack from the border ethereal have specific vs general rules as you normally can't.
So a creature that attacks you while on the border ethereal can't hit you because even if it is adjacent to you it isn't actually within reach?
This is the problem they created when they tried to force the border ethereal into the same box as other planes for 5e. The places in one are the same places in the other, they're overlapping and on top of one another.
If you can see it 5 ft away. That ghost IS 5 ft away. Even if it is on the ethereal plane he's going to ruin your day.
Creature that can attack from the border ethereal have specific vs general rules as you normally can't.
Yes but they have specific rules saying that they can attack something on the material while they're on the ethereal. But none of them have anything saying: They count as close to the target and therefore within range.
The entire argument was that they're not within range if they're on the border ethereal, remember? Not that they're not a valid target, but you specifically are arguing that they're not in range even if they're standing next to one another because one is on a different plane from the other.
The creatures in question, who do have specific exceptions for attacking creatures on the material plane DO NOT have exceptions for considering themselves within range.
So, either they forgot to include this in every single ethereal attacking creature's statblock, or, you're wrong and they're within range if they're close to one another.
So a creature that attacks you while on the border ethereal can't hit you because even if it is adjacent to you it isn't actually within reach?
This is the problem they created when they tried to force the border ethereal into the same box as other planes for 5e. The places in one are the same places in the other, they're overlapping and on top of one another.
If you can see it 5 ft away. That ghost IS 5 ft away. Even if it is on the ethereal plane he's going to ruin your day.
Creature that can attack from the border ethereal have specific vs general rules as you normally can't.
Yes but they have specific rules saying that they can attack something on the material while they're on the ethereal. But none of them have anything saying: They count as close to the target and therefore within range.
The entire argument was that they're not within range if they're on the border ethereal, remember? Not that they're not a valid target, but you specifically are arguing that they're not in range even if they're standing next to one another because one is on a different plane from the other.
The creatures in question, who do have specific exceptions for attacking creatures on the material plane DO NOT have exceptions for considering themselves within range.
So, either they forgot to include this in every single ethereal attacking creature's statblock, or, you're wrong and they're within range if they're close to one another.
They are within range for the purpose of the attack, otherwise they would not be able to attack it.
Which creature do you have in mind? A ghost for exemple, while it can see into the prime material plane while on the ethereal border, it still cannot attack
Etherealness: The ghost enters the Ethereal Plane from The Material Plane, or vice versa. It is visible on The Material Plane while it is in the Border Ethereal, and vice versa, yet it can't affect or be affected by anything on the other plane.
One i can think of that can target creature on the material plane while in the ethereal is the night hag, and it's only with its Nightmare Haunting, not its claw attack for exemple.
Which creature do you have in mind? A ghost for exemple, while it can see into the prime material plane while on the ethereal border, it still cannot attack
Etherealness: The ghost enters the Ethereal Plane from The Material Plane, or vice versa. It is visible on The Material Plane while it is in the Border Ethereal, and vice versa, yet it can't affect or be affected by anything on the other plane.
Any/all. None of the creatures in 5e says to "treat this creature as within range for the purposes of an attack even if it is in a different plane while also standing next to its target" or whatever wording you'd need to make your ruling make any sense.
The border ethereal overlaps with the material plane. if you're on the border ethereal in a spot, you're also on that spot in the material but just not, like, 'tuned' to the right frequency or whatever to manifest corporeally there. You can be face to face with a ghost, easily within 5ft of one another, AND it isn't on the same plane as you. Both of these can be true.
The border ethereal overlaps with the material plane. if you're on the border ethereal in a spot, you're also on that spot in the material but just not, like, 'tuned' to the right frequency or whatever to manifest corporeally there. You can be face to face with a ghost, easily within 5ft of one another, AND it isn't on the same plane as you. Both of these can be true.
No if you are on the border ethereal, you are not on the material plane at all, you are in the ethereal plane. That's why you can't affect one on the other plane, because it's not on yours.
Border Ethereal: From the Border Ethereal, a traveler can see into whatever plane it overlaps, but that plane appears muted and indistinct, its colors blurring into each other and its edges turning fuzzy. Ethereal denizens watch the plane as though peering through distorted and frosted glass, and can't see anything beyond 30 feet into the other plane. Conversely, the Ethereal Plane is usually invisible to those on the overlapped planes, except with the aid of magic. Normally, creatures in the Border Ethereal can't attack creatures on the overlapped plane, and vice versa. A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible and utterly silent to someone on the overlapped plane, and solid objects on the overlapped plane don't hamper the movement of a creature in the Border EthereaL The exceptions are certain magical effects (including anything made of magical force) and living beings. This makes the Ethereal Plane ideal for reconnaissance, spying on opponents, and moving around without being detected. The Ethereal Plane also disobeys the laws of gravity; a creature there can move up and down as easily as walking.
One i can think of that can target creature on the material plane while in the ethereal is the night hag, and it's only with its Nightmare Haunting, not its claw attack for exemple.
Sure we can look at that one to show why your argument doesn't make sense.
You say because it is on a different plane that it is therefore out of range. K.
"While on the Ethereal Plane, the hag magically touches a sleeping humanoid on the Material Plane."
How is she going to touch something if it is out of range?? The exception carved out for this ability does NOT address the range being a problem. It only says she can do it because a creature on a different plane isn't a valid target, not because it is out of range.
Otherwise you're arguing that the hag can literally ignore all range requirements for this ability regardless of where she actually is, and can touch anyone on the material plane no matter how far they are form her.... and that she can ignore this touch range requirement without anything explicitly saying she can do this from far away...
Border Ethereal: From the Border Ethereal, a traveler can see into whatever plane it overlaps, but that plane appears muted and indistinct, its colors blurring into each other and its edges turning fuzzy. Ethereal denizens watch the plane as though peering through distorted and frosted glass, and can't see anything beyond 30 feet into the other plane. Conversely, the Ethereal Plane is usually invisible to those on the overlapped planes, except with the aid of magic. Normally, creatures in the Border Ethereal can't attack creatures on the overlapped plane, and vice versa. A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible and utterly silent to someone on the overlapped plane, and solid objects on the overlapped plane don't hamper the movement of a creature in the Border Ethereal The exceptions are certain magical effects (including anything made of magical force) and living beings. This makes the Ethereal Plane ideal for reconnaissance, spying on opponents, and moving around without being detected. The Ethereal Plane also disobeys the laws of gravity; a creature there can move up and down as easily as walking.
If something is within 30ft of you, on the other plane... doesn't that sorta by default defeat your entire argument?
One i can think of that can target creature on the material plane while in the ethereal is the night hag, and it's only with its Nightmare Haunting, not its claw attack for exemple.
Sure we can look at that one to show why your argument doesn't make sense.
You say because it is on a different plane that it is therefore out of range. K.
"While on the Ethereal Plane, the hag magically touches a sleeping humanoid on the Material Plane."
How is she going to touch something if it is out of range?? The exception carved out for this ability does NOT address the range being a problem. It only says she can do it because a creature on a different plane isn't a valid target, not because it is out of range.
Otherwise you're arguing that the hag can literally ignore all range requirements for this ability regardless of where she actually is, and can touch anyone on the material plane no matter how far they are form her.... and that she can ignore this touch range requirement without anything explicitly saying she can do this from far away...
She can do so because Nightmare Haunting let her specifically do so. Otherwise, no one can generally touch a creature on the material plane while on the ethereal border, and vice versa, that's why it can't attack.
Border Ethereal: From the Border Ethereal, a traveler can see into whatever plane it overlaps, but that plane appears muted and indistinct, its colors blurring into each other and its edges turning fuzzy. Ethereal denizens watch the plane as though peering through distorted and frosted glass, and can't see anything beyond 30 feet into the other plane. Conversely, the Ethereal Plane is usually invisible to those on the overlapped planes, except with the aid of magic. Normally, creatures in the Border Ethereal can't attack creatures on the overlapped plane, and vice versa. A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible and utterly silent to someone on the overlapped plane, and solid objects on the overlapped plane don't hamper the movement of a creature in the Border Ethereal The exceptions are certain magical effects (including anything made of magical force) and living beings. This makes the Ethereal Plane ideal for reconnaissance, spying on opponents, and moving around without being detected. The Ethereal Plane also disobeys the laws of gravity; a creature there can move up and down as easily as walking.
If something is within 30ft of you, on the other plane... doesn't that sorta by default defeat your entire argument?
It doesn't say the creature on the ethereal border is within 30 feet of you, it the creature in the ethereal can't see anything beyond 30 feet of itself into the other plane. The distance is in respect to it.
The planes overlapp so creatures can be standing right next to each others in the border ethereal and the material plane, while not being adjacent to each other being on different planes of existance. They exist at different places while overlapping but the ethereal border allows vision and few magical effects into the other plane.
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Let's say a creature or character has the ability to enter the Ethereal Plane as an action. Would a previously cast spell still work? For example if it had a target caught by hold person and then entered the Ethereal Plane, would the target stay paralyzed?
Nothing about the ethereal plane explicitly dispels existing spells or anything of that nature. So if you were to Plane Shift there, that won't do anything for you, nor would anything like a Phase Spider's ability. You'd have to rely on the wording of the individual feature that transports you to the Ethereal Plane. Though it is important to note that any feature that relies on range, such as Witch Bolt, will stop working if the target moves to a different plane than the caster.
The spell Etherealness has a line that says "Creatures that aren't on the Ethereal Plane can't perceive you and can't interact with you". I would argue that once a spell like Hold Person takes effect, the caster is no longer actively interacting with the target, so it wouldn't be canceled in any way. But I could also see the opposite argument - that by holding concentration on the spell, the caster is still "interacting" with the target.
It sort of depends on your exact interpretation of that phrase. But again - that's only if the target uses that specific spell to enter the Ethereal Plane.
As written shifting planes of existance doesn't explicitly break concentration, unless the DM rule otherwise.
Certain spells (and possibly effects) say that they only work if you are on the same plane. If Hold Person doesn't have any such limitation, then it will work.
Also important to note that force effects can impact the border ethereal just fine. And, see invisibility can let you see stuff there too. The border ethereal is both a different plane but also next to you still. The witch bolt example is certainly a fuzzy one. You could be looking right at a ghost 10 ft away from you if you can See Invisibility. But, since it is also on the ethereal plane... is it 10ft away or no? 5e doesn't hash out these complications for the ethereal plane very well.
I got quotes!
I'd say if the creature is not on the same plane of existance as you, it's not within 10 feet of you.
So a creature that attacks you while on the border ethereal can't hit you because even if it is adjacent to you it isn't actually within reach?
This is the problem they created when they tried to force the border ethereal into the same box as other planes for 5e. The places in one are the same places in the other, they're overlapping and on top of one another.
If you can see it 5 ft away. That ghost IS 5 ft away. Even if it is on the ethereal plane he's going to ruin your day.
I got quotes!
Creature that can attack from the border ethereal have specific vs general rules as you normally can't.
Yes but they have specific rules saying that they can attack something on the material while they're on the ethereal. But none of them have anything saying: They count as close to the target and therefore within range.
The entire argument was that they're not within range if they're on the border ethereal, remember? Not that they're not a valid target, but you specifically are arguing that they're not in range even if they're standing next to one another because one is on a different plane from the other.
The creatures in question, who do have specific exceptions for attacking creatures on the material plane DO NOT have exceptions for considering themselves within range.
So, either they forgot to include this in every single ethereal attacking creature's statblock, or, you're wrong and they're within range if they're close to one another.
I got quotes!
They are within range for the purpose of the attack, otherwise they would not be able to attack it.
Which creature do you have in mind? A ghost for exemple, while it can see into the prime material plane while on the ethereal border, it still cannot attack
One i can think of that can target creature on the material plane while in the ethereal is the night hag, and it's only with its Nightmare Haunting, not its claw attack for exemple.
Any/all. None of the creatures in 5e says to "treat this creature as within range for the purposes of an attack even if it is in a different plane while also standing next to its target" or whatever wording you'd need to make your ruling make any sense.
The border ethereal overlaps with the material plane. if you're on the border ethereal in a spot, you're also on that spot in the material but just not, like, 'tuned' to the right frequency or whatever to manifest corporeally there. You can be face to face with a ghost, easily within 5ft of one another, AND it isn't on the same plane as you. Both of these can be true.
I got quotes!
No if you are on the border ethereal, you are not on the material plane at all, you are in the ethereal plane. That's why you can't affect one on the other plane, because it's not on yours.
The Dungeon Master Guide discuss this:
Sure we can look at that one to show why your argument doesn't make sense.
You say because it is on a different plane that it is therefore out of range. K.
"While on the Ethereal Plane, the hag magically touches a sleeping humanoid on the Material Plane."
How is she going to touch something if it is out of range?? The exception carved out for this ability does NOT address the range being a problem. It only says she can do it because a creature on a different plane isn't a valid target, not because it is out of range.
Otherwise you're arguing that the hag can literally ignore all range requirements for this ability regardless of where she actually is, and can touch anyone on the material plane no matter how far they are form her.... and that she can ignore this touch range requirement without anything explicitly saying she can do this from far away...
I got quotes!
If something is within 30ft of you, on the other plane... doesn't that sorta by default defeat your entire argument?
I got quotes!
She can do so because Nightmare Haunting let her specifically do so. Otherwise, no one can generally touch a creature on the material plane while on the ethereal border, and vice versa, that's why it can't attack.
It doesn't say the creature on the ethereal border is within 30 feet of you, it the creature in the ethereal can't see anything beyond 30 feet of itself into the other plane. The distance is in respect to it.
The planes overlapp so creatures can be standing right next to each others in the border ethereal and the material plane, while not being adjacent to each other being on different planes of existance. They exist at different places while overlapping but the ethereal border allows vision and few magical effects into the other plane.