Hello, I'm working on some downtime rules for guildwork in Waterdeep, but struggling to combine workweek and tenday.
Forgotten Realms refers to weeks as tenday and each month has 30 days), that part is pretty clear to me. There's 36 tenday in a year (360 days - some say with 5 additional days thrown throughout which aren't counted in the 30-day months).
PHB just refers to days, no tenday or workweek.
XGE refers to workweek and there's 5 days in a workweek.
To put those together, there'd be 2 workweeks in one tenday (IRL version of a week). I suppose days off are purely at discretion...whether its region specific or whatever (whether that's one day off in a workweek for union/guild folk, one per tenday for the less fortunate but still under the realm of a religion other other mandate, or just no days off for the beaten down peasant class). This means there'd be 72 workweeks in a year.
I've never seen the ten-day week referenced in the actual rules, though if it is I'd love someone to reference it here
that same sentence you linked has workweek at 5 days, which is what i was looking at. so i suppose to tie Forgotten Realms to XGE:
in Forgotten Realms:
1 workweek= 5 days.
1 tenday = 10 days.
2 workweeks in 1 tenday.
72 workweeks in a year and days off are inside the workweek definition.
Other places:
1 workweek = 5 days.
1 week = 7 days.
52 weeks in a year and everyone gets two days off each week.
For rules, the tenday reference is in Waterdeep - Dragonheist, where it talks about the season (and 'tenday' is used throughout the publication): The Faerunian calendar has twelve months that roughly correspond to the months of the Gregorian calendar. Each month has thirty days divided into three ten-day weeks (each week is called a tenday). Scattered throughout the year are five holidays that aren't considered part of any month.
Ok, then I don't know what to tell you then. Working only 5 days then having 5 days off sounds nice though.
yeah, just trying to tie it together...but i'd say its work 5 days, then work 5 more days, then 5 more, then 5 more, until you die. Formal days off IRL didn't really start until around the 1900's so back in yesteryear I don't think the concept of a day off was really out there. Even then, it started as a 'sacrifice a days wage to sit in church'....not really a day off.
Ok, then I don't know what to tell you then. Working only 5 days then having 5 days off sounds nice though.
yeah, just trying to tie it together...but i'd say its work 5 days, then work 5 more days, the 5 more, then 5 more, until you die. Formal days off IRL didn't really start until around the 1900's so back in yesteryear I don't think the concept of a day off was really out there. Even then, it started as a 'sacrifice a days wage to sit in church'....not really a day off.
This why I don't try to make D&D fit with the real world too much. Real world history doesn't match up well.
yeah, just trying to tie it together...but i'd say its work 5 days, then work 5 more days, the 5 more, then 5 more, until you die. Formal days off IRL didn't really start until around the 1900's so back in yesteryear I don't think the concept of a day off was really out there. Even then, it started as a 'sacrifice a days wage to sit in church'....not really a day off.
If maintaining a tenday calendar is the more important aspect for you, then I would suggest that you modify the work week concept to something along the lines of the following:
Keep the idea that you outlined above. Workweek is working 5 days, which is immediately followed by another 5 day workweek. This concept wouldn't be too far removed from a real medieval concept, since most workers and businesses probably didn't have any days off beyond special occasions... Or they took the hit for not working that day, which would have been a fairly rare thing for those needing the income from their work.
Make your work weeks four 10-hour days, which would equal the same amount of time as five 8-hour days. The fifth day per "workweek" would be their day off for recovery and/or other activities (such as religious obligations). Again, this wouldn't be too far removed from reality, as I could easily see many workers putting in more than just 8 hours of work a day.
Or any other alternative that you feel works well for you and your set-up, since Xanathar's rules don't fully coincide with the idea of a tenday calendar system.
Honestly time is one of those constructs that is hard for people to adjust to when its measured different from what you already know (its why metric time failed miserably). Technically a world could have 11 months in its year, or 41 days per week, or time could be measured by how many times the god-eagle flies overhead and caws, and the concept of increments of time not exist.
organizing around a "tenday" is not hard, but calling a tenday a "week" is problematic, especially when that usage is not presented outside a few sources that some folks might not own, and other sources continue to use the 7 day traditional week.
Ok, then I don't know what to tell you then. Working only 5 days then having 5 days off sounds nice though.
yeah, just trying to tie it together...but i'd say its work 5 days, then work 5 more days, then 5 more, then 5 more, until you die. Formal days off IRL didn't really start until around the 1900's so back in yesteryear I don't think the concept of a day off was really out there. Even then, it started as a 'sacrifice a days wage to sit in church'....not really a day off.
Hi! Farmers in England in the late middle ages had between 80 and 100 days off per year! I recommend the podcast "We're not so different" by medievalist Eleanor Janega for more info, particularly the episode titled "Food III: Feasts"! Anyway, they had holidays such as Christmas, Easter and Whitsunday off, as well as the whole week following each. People didn't have to work on Sundays, as you said, but medieval peasants also LOVED going to church! It was a social occasion, churches (and lay people) set up passion plays and mystery plays, and they got to learn about all kinds of violent and sexy (well, sexual) saints' lives. Look up "Feast and Daily Life in the Middle Ages" by Christian Rohr for my source. In any case, there was also Candlemas, Hocktie, Mayday, Midsummer, the Feast of St. Peter, Michaelmas, All Hallows Day, St. Martin's Day, and more. The whole period from Christmas Eve to Twelfth Day was a holiday, so that's more vacation than even schoolchildren get.
I'm not suggesting that pre-modern peasants had it easy, but they had more time off and tighter-knit communities than most people living in the industrial world in 2022. I wouldn't give up my cushy (if poor) existence to be a farmer in 1400, but they had some good ideas.
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist has the following text so a ten-day seems to exist
FAERÛNIAN CALENDAR
The Faerûnian calendar has twelve months that roughly correspond to the months of the Gregorian calendar. Each month has thirty days divided into three ten-day weeks (each week is called a tenday). Scattered throughout the year are five holidays that aren’t considered part of any month. Once every four years, the holiday of Shieldmeet is added to the calendar as a leap day immediately following Midsummer night. Collectively, these days create a cycle similar to what we have on Earth: three 365-day years followed by a leap year.
Months. The Faerûnian months are Hammer, Alturiak, Ches, Tarsakh, Mirtul, Kythorn, Flamerule, Eleasis, Eleint, Marpenoth, Uktar, and Nightal.
Annual Holidays. The annual holidays are Midwinter (between Hammer and Alturiak), Greengrass (between Tarsakh and Mirtul), Midsummer (between Flamerule and Eleasis), Highharvestide (between Eleint and Marpenoth), and the Feast of the Moon (between Uktar and Nightal).
DM/GM has the ability to define how a ten-day system might work. For me, three days work with following two days rest (or whatever is needed for next three day work period) twice a ten-day week.
One could also do a day on, day off approach. The old ten-day week was an easier way to keep track of time back in the old days, as most of the time mechanics was based on values of ten. ( ten minute combat rounds, one minute turns, ten minute rituals, etc etc... ) and allowed time for players to take several days to recuperate form extended severely dangerous adventures where poison, curses, severe injury, and other such bodily tolls took time to fully heal.
The ten-day week also served to reduce the overall time in crafting items, magical and non-magical, so that it wouldn't take several years by todays measure of weeks, but by what has been said by others to split the ten-day week into two 5 day work weeks so teams of crafters could continuously work on a project, rotating crews as needed, and possibly gaining a completion bonus for finishing ahead of time.
Using non-standard weeks (tenday) serves no purpose, and it is a quirk of a moment's spare thought by someone designing a setting decades ago, who probably hasn't thought about it since. Just use standard 7 day weeks, everyone at your table will thank you for it. You're not obligated to stick to everything it says in a sourcebook.
I remember someone once suggesting "I have a campaign setting where they think what is north is actually south, and what is south is north." He thought it was a cool twist. But it's actually meaningless, because outside of getting into detailed physics, it doesn't make any difference. This is the same; you can call it whatever you like but the only thing it can do is be confusing to the players, as the world carries on the same way regardless.
I think it's also interesting to think of this idea we have of weekends; in an agricultural society and where everyone runs their own small businesses, you don't have days off. The days of the week are useful to mark things like when a market is running, but you rest when you want to/can. Farmers don't get days off at all, the animals still need feeding.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello, I'm working on some downtime rules for guildwork in Waterdeep, but struggling to combine workweek and tenday.
To put those together, there'd be 2 workweeks in one tenday (IRL version of a week). I suppose days off are purely at discretion...whether its region specific or whatever (whether that's one day off in a workweek for union/guild folk, one per tenday for the less fortunate but still under the realm of a religion other other mandate, or just no days off for the beaten down peasant class). This means there'd be 72 workweeks in a year.
Is that the general approach?
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
Xanathar's refers to a week as 7 days
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/xgte/downtime-revisited#ResolvingActivities
I've never seen the ten-day week referenced in the actual rules, though if it is I'd love someone to reference it here
that same sentence you linked has workweek at 5 days, which is what i was looking at. so i suppose to tie Forgotten Realms to XGE:
in Forgotten Realms:
Other places:
For rules, the tenday reference is in Waterdeep - Dragonheist, where it talks about the season (and 'tenday' is used throughout the publication): The Faerunian calendar has twelve months that roughly correspond to the months of the Gregorian calendar. Each month has thirty days divided into three ten-day weeks (each week is called a tenday). Scattered throughout the year are five holidays that aren't considered part of any month.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
Xanathar's is set in the Realms which makes the case that they dropped the 10 day thing as it isn't referenced in 5e that I am aware of.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
tenday is in ALL the Forgotten Realms source books: SCAG, SKT, WDDH, DMM, PoA, Frost Maiden, etc.
They all use tenday, not workweek or week.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
Ok, then I don't know what to tell you then. Working only 5 days then having 5 days off sounds nice though.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
yeah, just trying to tie it together...but i'd say its work 5 days, then work 5 more days, then 5 more, then 5 more, until you die. Formal days off IRL didn't really start until around the 1900's so back in yesteryear I don't think the concept of a day off was really out there. Even then, it started as a 'sacrifice a days wage to sit in church'....not really a day off.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
Not ALL if it is not in Xanathar's
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
This why I don't try to make D&D fit with the real world too much. Real world history doesn't match up well.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Other than the name 'Xanathar', I wouldn't consider XGE a Forgotten Realms sourcebook - it specifically says it applies to any official D&D setting.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
If maintaining a tenday calendar is the more important aspect for you, then I would suggest that you modify the work week concept to something along the lines of the following:
Or any other alternative that you feel works well for you and your set-up, since Xanathar's rules don't fully coincide with the idea of a tenday calendar system.
Fair enough
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Yeah, this has always confused me too.
Honestly time is one of those constructs that is hard for people to adjust to when its measured different from what you already know (its why metric time failed miserably). Technically a world could have 11 months in its year, or 41 days per week, or time could be measured by how many times the god-eagle flies overhead and caws, and the concept of increments of time not exist.
organizing around a "tenday" is not hard, but calling a tenday a "week" is problematic, especially when that usage is not presented outside a few sources that some folks might not own, and other sources continue to use the 7 day traditional week.
In the Forgotten Realms, you have 2 workweeks in a ten-day. 5 days in a workweek, 10 days in a ten-day. There's nothing to be confused about.
Other than XGE’s 7-day week, which I’m ignoring.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
A rather comprehensive list of free WotC D&D resources
Deck of Decks
Hi! Farmers in England in the late middle ages had between 80 and 100 days off per year! I recommend the podcast "We're not so different" by medievalist Eleanor Janega for more info, particularly the episode titled "Food III: Feasts"! Anyway, they had holidays such as Christmas, Easter and Whitsunday off, as well as the whole week following each. People didn't have to work on Sundays, as you said, but medieval peasants also LOVED going to church! It was a social occasion, churches (and lay people) set up passion plays and mystery plays, and they got to learn about all kinds of violent and sexy (well, sexual) saints' lives. Look up "Feast and Daily Life in the Middle Ages" by Christian Rohr for my source. In any case, there was also Candlemas, Hocktie, Mayday, Midsummer, the Feast of St. Peter, Michaelmas, All Hallows Day, St. Martin's Day, and more. The whole period from Christmas Eve to Twelfth Day was a holiday, so that's more vacation than even schoolchildren get.
I'm not suggesting that pre-modern peasants had it easy, but they had more time off and tighter-knit communities than most people living in the industrial world in 2022. I wouldn't give up my cushy (if poor) existence to be a farmer in 1400, but they had some good ideas.
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist has the following text so a ten-day seems to exist
DM/GM has the ability to define how a ten-day system might work. For me, three days work with following two days rest (or whatever is needed for next three day work period) twice a ten-day week.
One could also do a day on, day off approach. The old ten-day week was an easier way to keep track of time back in the old days, as most of the time mechanics was based on values of ten. ( ten minute combat rounds, one minute turns, ten minute rituals, etc etc... ) and allowed time for players to take several days to recuperate form extended severely dangerous adventures where poison, curses, severe injury, and other such bodily tolls took time to fully heal.
The ten-day week also served to reduce the overall time in crafting items, magical and non-magical, so that it wouldn't take several years by todays measure of weeks, but by what has been said by others to split the ten-day week into two 5 day work weeks so teams of crafters could continuously work on a project, rotating crews as needed, and possibly gaining a completion bonus for finishing ahead of time.
Using non-standard weeks (tenday) serves no purpose, and it is a quirk of a moment's spare thought by someone designing a setting decades ago, who probably hasn't thought about it since. Just use standard 7 day weeks, everyone at your table will thank you for it. You're not obligated to stick to everything it says in a sourcebook.
I remember someone once suggesting "I have a campaign setting where they think what is north is actually south, and what is south is north." He thought it was a cool twist. But it's actually meaningless, because outside of getting into detailed physics, it doesn't make any difference. This is the same; you can call it whatever you like but the only thing it can do is be confusing to the players, as the world carries on the same way regardless.
I think it's also interesting to think of this idea we have of weekends; in an agricultural society and where everyone runs their own small businesses, you don't have days off. The days of the week are useful to mark things like when a market is running, but you rest when you want to/can. Farmers don't get days off at all, the animals still need feeding.