mordekinens tombe of foes provides rules for how to apply subraces to the tiefling, and the sword coast adventurers guide provides several variants you can apply to an tiefling character. The question i have is can you have both? can you be an winged tiefling of zariel, or an devil's tongue fierna tiefling, or an feral tiefling of mammon? or are they mutually exclusive, since the abillity score increases and innate spells are technically different from those provided in the default tiefling?
also bonus question: if it is the case that the tiefling subraces can stack, what would be the maxiumum potential number of 3rd level tiefling warlocks possible, ignoring variations in abillity score?
yeah but technically the ones in the scag are variants like the dragonmarks for half elves and half orcs, not true subraces, and that is kinda why i asked
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
yeah but technically the ones in the scag are variants like the dragonmarks for half elves and half orcs, not true subraces, and that is kinda why i asked
I still think it's a valid response. I haven't tinkered with the variant options from SCAG a bunch on DnDB. If I have at all, it was with a half-elf and was long enough ago that I don't remember the specifics. I don't mind the idea of going into that kind of detail if it's a game done on paper or if the character creator supports it without a bunch of homebrew work arounds. Extra work for the home brew work arounds to allow you to get your character exactly where you want would require a level of commitment and participation from the players that my current group just doesn't provide to make it worth it for me. (I couldn't even get them to give me a quick description of how they came across one of the XGTE common magic items that I allowed them to have.) DMing is a lot of work anyway and the payoff isn't always worth it.
My understanding is that the Feral Tiefling specifically can stack with any other single Tiefling variant. At least, that's a sentiment that I've seen posted in several guides regarding the subrace expansion. But ultimately the yay/nay would rest with your DM. If they allow it, then fantastic. If they don't, then you can't. Simple as that.
Yeah, the Tiefling subraces are supposed to be based on your Fiend. Seems obvious to me you get one Fiend. Exactly how many curses/pacts have your ancestors made? Do you think Asmodeous is going to be fine if one of HIS Tieflings decides to make a new pact with Dispater?
Yeah, the Tiefling subraces are supposed to be based on your Fiend. Seems obvious to me you get one Fiend. Exactly how many curses/pacts have your ancestors made? Do you think Asmodeous is going to be fine if one of HIS Tieflings decides to make a new pact with Dispater?
Yeah, nope. Fiends are not known for sharing.
I don't think that's what they were talking about particularly since they didn't specifically mention Warlock. I think they were wondering could you have a feral and non feral version of the same Tiefling subrace along with variants that had the wings, etc. described in SCAG instead of the innate spellcasting or whatever the variations would replace. At least, that's the way I understood the question and the way that I responded to it.
Yeah, the Tiefling subraces are supposed to be based on your Fiend. Seems obvious to me you get one Fiend. Exactly how many curses/pacts have your ancestors made? Do you think Asmodeous is going to be fine if one of HIS Tieflings decides to make a new pact with Dispater?
Yeah, nope. Fiends are not known for sharing.
I don't think that's what they were talking about particularly since they didn't specifically mention Warlock. I think they were wondering could you have a feral and non feral version of the same Tiefling subrace along with variants that had the wings, etc. described in SCAG instead of the innate spellcasting or whatever the variations would replace. At least, that's the way I understood the question and the way that I responded to it.
I was not talking warlock. I was talking Mordekain's Tome of Foes:
"To be greeted with stares and whispers, to suffer violence and insult on the street, to see mistrust and fear in every eye: this is the lot of the tiefling. And to twist the knife, tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus-overlord of the Nine Hells-into their bloodline. Their appearance and their nature are not their fault but the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children's children will always be held accountable."
As for the SCAG stuff, that variant clearly says choose 1. It seems pretty obvious to me you can't choose 2, nor choose something not on that list. Which means no combining the SCAG variant with the MTOF variant. I might house rule to let you create a new MTOF variant based on another Fiend choosen from the Nine Hells. But it would be similar in build to the other MTOF variants.
Yeah, the Tiefling subraces are supposed to be based on your Fiend. Seems obvious to me you get one Fiend. Exactly how many curses/pacts have your ancestors made? Do you think Asmodeous is going to be fine if one of HIS Tieflings decides to make a new pact with Dispater?
Yeah, nope. Fiends are not known for sharing.
I don't think that's what they were talking about particularly since they didn't specifically mention Warlock. I think they were wondering could you have a feral and non feral version of the same Tiefling subrace along with variants that had the wings, etc. described in SCAG instead of the innate spellcasting or whatever the variations would replace. At least, that's the way I understood the question and the way that I responded to it.
I was not talking warlock. I was talking Mordekain's Tome of Foes:
"To be greeted with stares and whispers, to suffer violence and insult on the street, to see mistrust and fear in every eye: this is the lot of the tiefling. And to twist the knife, tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus-overlord of the Nine Hells-into their bloodline. Their appearance and their nature are not their fault but the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children's children will always be held accountable."
As for the SCAG stuff, that variant clearly says choose 1. It seems pretty obvious to me you can't choose 2, nor choose something not on that list. Which means no combining the SCAG variant with the MTOF variant. I might house rule to let you create a new MTOF variant based on another Fiend choosen from the Nine Hells. But it would be similar in build to the other MTOF variants.
First paragraph- gotcha. I haven't read that in a bit and understood pact to be referring to the warlock pact.
Second paragraph- that's certainly one way to read it and I think that's the answer they were looking for. Considering that SCAG was released prior to MToF, it's understandable that there wouldn't be any reference to the other subraces in SCAG. Where MToF classifies the PHB Tiefling to be an Asmodean Tiefling, I don't see a problem extending the variations to the other subraces. I also don't have a problem with someone saying no (particularly if for better reasons than my "I don't want to put that much work into it and not feel like I'm getting satisfaction from that work" excuse that I gave earlier). But it sounds like you're essentially in the same boat application-wise if not in agreement on the RAW/RAI/RAC classification of said application.
Yeah, the Tiefling subraces are supposed to be based on your Fiend. Seems obvious to me you get one Fiend. Exactly how many curses/pacts have your ancestors made? Do you think Asmodeous is going to be fine if one of HIS Tieflings decides to make a new pact with Dispater?
Yeah, nope. Fiends are not known for sharing.
I don't think that's what they were talking about particularly since they didn't specifically mention Warlock. I think they were wondering could you have a feral and non feral version of the same Tiefling subrace along with variants that had the wings, etc. described in SCAG instead of the innate spellcasting or whatever the variations would replace. At least, that's the way I understood the question and the way that I responded to it.
I was not talking warlock. I was talking Mordekain's Tome of Foes:
"To be greeted with stares and whispers, to suffer violence and insult on the street, to see mistrust and fear in every eye: this is the lot of the tiefling. And to twist the knife, tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus-overlord of the Nine Hells-into their bloodline. Their appearance and their nature are not their fault but the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children's children will always be held accountable."
As for the SCAG stuff, that variant clearly says choose 1. It seems pretty obvious to me you can't choose 2, nor choose something not on that list. Which means no combining the SCAG variant with the MTOF variant. I might house rule to let you create a new MTOF variant based on another Fiend choosen from the Nine Hells. But it would be similar in build to the other MTOF variants.
well if you would have read some of the stuff in the sword coast adventurers guide and players handbook, you would notice how even if tieflings are created by pacts with Asmudeus, that those pacts are not nessesarily warlock pacts that give you magic and more like other devilish bargains, and that tieflings are completely free willed,asmudeus has no more influence over how an tiefling will act than how much my words will influence your behaviour, in other words not a whole lot. Especially if the only reason you are a tiefling is becuase one of your grandparents were a tiefling, the forces of the nine hells have no reason to treat you any diffrently to any other mortal, you have a blood tie to the nine hells, but you shure as hell have never signed any contract or done anything that has ever helped these fiends. Besides lord Cthulhu is not even aware that their tiefling warlock exists, the tiefling is merely exploiting the rifts in reality that the patrons mere presence brings to more easily cast their dangerous arcane rituals, or they are tapping into the evil knowledge or evil power of their patron directly (there is even an example of an GOO tiefling warlock in the opening fluff to the warlock), an hexblade makes a pact with whomever it deems worthy, an archfey will not see an devil, they will see an promising young lad who has an vendetta against the people living in urban areas and a way with words, perfect person to convert to your cause it is not? similarly an angel or an ki rin is able to sense the goodness in every heart, again being a tiefling gives you no inclination towards evil, and if your heart truly burns bright with the light of goodness, they might make a pact with the celestial. This idea that the fiend is the only available subclass for an tiefling warlock lore wise is just such an severe missunderstanding of the lore that i am honestly a little shocked you even had the nerve to to say it.
edit: nevermind you are just talking about tieflings and how the subclasses are supposed to work. Well even still having an winged tiefling of zariel, with you ether being connected to her directly or to one of her winged minions, or an fierna tiefling with the devils tounge trait both make a lot of sense correct? and being an feral tiefling, one who is less confident and good at being social but just as clever and much more nimble could also work with any of the subclasses, diffrent tieflings handle being outcasts diffrently, some may gravitate towards the skills of the rouge, having a blood tie to one of the lords but never fully embracing it
mordekinens tombe of foes provides rules for how to apply subraces to the tiefling, and the sword coast adventurers guide provides several variants you can apply to an tiefling character. The question i have is can you have both? can you be an winged tiefling of zariel, or an devil's tongue fierna tiefling, or an feral tiefling of mammon? or are they mutually exclusive, since the abillity score increases and innate spells are technically different from those provided in the default tiefling?
also bonus question: if it is the case that the tiefling subraces can stack, what would be the maxiumum potential number of 3rd level tiefling warlocks possible, ignoring variations in abillity score?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
RAW: You can only have one sub-race.
AL: PHB+1
At your table: Whatever the DM allows.
yeah but technically the ones in the scag are variants like the dragonmarks for half elves and half orcs, not true subraces, and that is kinda why i asked
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I still think it's a valid response. I haven't tinkered with the variant options from SCAG a bunch on DnDB. If I have at all, it was with a half-elf and was long enough ago that I don't remember the specifics. I don't mind the idea of going into that kind of detail if it's a game done on paper or if the character creator supports it without a bunch of homebrew work arounds. Extra work for the home brew work arounds to allow you to get your character exactly where you want would require a level of commitment and participation from the players that my current group just doesn't provide to make it worth it for me. (I couldn't even get them to give me a quick description of how they came across one of the XGTE common magic items that I allowed them to have.) DMing is a lot of work anyway and the payoff isn't always worth it.
My understanding is that the Feral Tiefling specifically can stack with any other single Tiefling variant. At least, that's a sentiment that I've seen posted in several guides regarding the subrace expansion. But ultimately the yay/nay would rest with your DM. If they allow it, then fantastic. If they don't, then you can't. Simple as that.
Yeah, the Tiefling subraces are supposed to be based on your Fiend. Seems obvious to me you get one Fiend. Exactly how many curses/pacts have your ancestors made? Do you think Asmodeous is going to be fine if one of HIS Tieflings decides to make a new pact with Dispater?
Yeah, nope. Fiends are not known for sharing.
I don't think that's what they were talking about particularly since they didn't specifically mention Warlock. I think they were wondering could you have a feral and non feral version of the same Tiefling subrace along with variants that had the wings, etc. described in SCAG instead of the innate spellcasting or whatever the variations would replace. At least, that's the way I understood the question and the way that I responded to it.
I was not talking warlock. I was talking Mordekain's Tome of Foes:
"To be greeted with stares and whispers, to suffer violence and insult on the street, to see mistrust and fear in every eye: this is the lot of the tiefling. And to twist the knife, tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus-overlord of the Nine Hells-into their bloodline. Their appearance and their nature are not their fault but the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children's children will always be held accountable."
As for the SCAG stuff, that variant clearly says choose 1. It seems pretty obvious to me you can't choose 2, nor choose something not on that list. Which means no combining the SCAG variant with the MTOF variant. I might house rule to let you create a new MTOF variant based on another Fiend choosen from the Nine Hells. But it would be similar in build to the other MTOF variants.
First paragraph- gotcha. I haven't read that in a bit and understood pact to be referring to the warlock pact.
Second paragraph- that's certainly one way to read it and I think that's the answer they were looking for. Considering that SCAG was released prior to MToF, it's understandable that there wouldn't be any reference to the other subraces in SCAG. Where MToF classifies the PHB Tiefling to be an Asmodean Tiefling, I don't see a problem extending the variations to the other subraces. I also don't have a problem with someone saying no (particularly if for better reasons than my "I don't want to put that much work into it and not feel like I'm getting satisfaction from that work" excuse that I gave earlier). But it sounds like you're essentially in the same boat application-wise if not in agreement on the RAW/RAI/RAC classification of said application.
well if you would have read some of the stuff in the sword coast adventurers guide and players handbook, you would notice how even if tieflings are created by pacts with Asmudeus, that those pacts are not nessesarily warlock pacts that give you magic and more like other devilish bargains, and that tieflings are completely free willed, asmudeus has no more influence over how an tiefling will act than how much my words will influence your behaviour, in other words not a whole lot. Especially if the only reason you are a tiefling is becuase one of your grandparents were a tiefling, the forces of the nine hells have no reason to treat you any diffrently to any other mortal, you have a blood tie to the nine hells, but you shure as hell have never signed any contract or done anything that has ever helped these fiends. Besides lord Cthulhu is not even aware that their tiefling warlock exists, the tiefling is merely exploiting the rifts in reality that the patrons mere presence brings to more easily cast their dangerous arcane rituals, or they are tapping into the evil knowledge or evil power of their patron directly (there is even an example of an GOO tiefling warlock in the opening fluff to the warlock), an hexblade makes a pact with whomever it deems worthy, an archfey will not see an devil, they will see an promising young lad who has an vendetta against the people living in urban areas and a way with words, perfect person to convert to your cause it is not? similarly an angel or an ki rin is able to sense the goodness in every heart, again being a tiefling gives you no inclination towards evil, and if your heart truly burns bright with the light of goodness, they might make a pact with the celestial. This idea that the fiend is the only available subclass for an tiefling warlock lore wise is just such an severe missunderstanding of the lore that i am honestly a little shocked you even had the nerve to to say it.edit: nevermind you are just talking about tieflings and how the subclasses are supposed to work. Well even still having an winged tiefling of zariel, with you ether being connected to her directly or to one of her winged minions, or an fierna tiefling with the devils tounge trait both make a lot of sense correct? and being an feral tiefling, one who is less confident and good at being social but just as clever and much more nimble could also work with any of the subclasses, diffrent tieflings handle being outcasts diffrently, some may gravitate towards the skills of the rouge, having a blood tie to one of the lords but never fully embracing it
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes