if my wizard is swallowed by a adult white dragon, what would happen if i cant wall of force? would it essentially be an immovable rod? or what kind of damage would it deal? what kind of damage would i take? thoughts?
just to eliminate questions heres a little more info
war magic lvl 11 with 22 int and staff of frost so i have resistance to cold
So if im inside the stomach and i try to do force wall right infront of me before it comes into existence it would shove the dragon with me inside 5 feet to the side?
Maybe not Wall of Force, but if you have some pellets of Dust of Dryness, you could crush them to create an absurd volume of water (15'x15'x15' cube) in the dragon's stomach with you , which at minimum should produce enough force to flush you out of the dragon, and if the dragon's not bigger than "Huge" size, that volume of water could feasibly explode the dragon's insides. Either way, it would get you out of the dragon.
By RAW, items only do what is in their description, so an item that isn't intended to do damage ought not. However, realistic or not, DMs often like to reward creative participation. Give it a shot, but be very clear to your DM about your intended effect.
Your DM may have different intuitions about interactions and will need to make a snap decision. As long as they know what your goal is, they can interpret events to be in your favor, even if not exactly as you imagined.
I always find it funny that we assume being swallowed is non-lethal. If I were a dragon, I'd just quickly chew the adventurer, before gulping him or her down. That being pulped by dragon fangs is fatal shouldn't really be subject to discussion. But I realise the rules say differently.
But ... to actually answer the question: Let's say the dragon's stomach is big enough for the sphere version of the spell. Then the spell would function as intended, basically immobilizing the dragon while protecting your wizard from being unpleasantly dissolved.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
An immovable rod would made quite a weapon in this instance.
If the dragon is flying just activate it and see if you could stop him and hang him in mid air. Or at least painfully slow him down while on the ground.
I always find it funny that we assume being swallowed is non-lethal. If I were a dragon, I'd just quickly chew the adventurer, before gulping him or her down. That being pulped by dragon fangs is fatal shouldn't really be subject to discussion. But I realise the rules say differently.
There are a lot of real creatures that eat their prey whole, and that's where people are coming from when they talk about D&D monsters swallowing characters whole.
There are a lot of real creatures that eat their prey whole, and that's where people are coming from when they talk about D&D monsters swallowing characters whole.
... I'm well aware. I don't really see how that changes anything. Sure, a Gelatinous Cube cannot chew an adventurer, but most creatures capable of swallowing a knight in shining armor really should just quickly pulp him - or her - with it's mighty teeth. Otherwise, it's about as appealing as swallowing caltrops.
I realise it's all imaginary. But I see no reason we should imagine it to be counter to logic.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
There are a lot of real creatures that eat their prey whole, and that's where people are coming from when they talk about D&D monsters swallowing characters whole.
... I'm well aware. I don't really see how that changes anything. Sure, a Gelatinous Cube cannot chew an adventurer, but most creatures capable of swallowing a knight in shining armor really should just quickly pulp him - or her - with it's mighty teeth. Otherwise, it's about as appealing as swallowing caltrops.
I realise it's all imaginary. But I see no reason we should imagine it to be counter to logic.
I think we're on the same page. It makes sense for enormous predators to make sure their prey is dead before swallowing it, and the intelligent ones like dragons most likely would. At the same time, creatures in the real world like frogs, heron, snakes, fish, etc. do swallow their food whole, and still alive, so having fantasy creatures that are significantly more monstrous than those real-world animals swallow its prey alive isn't outside the realm of realism... not any more than the existence of the massive monsters is.
There are a lot of real creatures that eat their prey whole, and that's where people are coming from when they talk about D&D monsters swallowing characters whole.
... I'm well aware. I don't really see how that changes anything. Sure, a Gelatinous Cube cannot chew an adventurer, but most creatures capable of swallowing a knight in shining armor really should just quickly pulp him - or her - with it's mighty teeth. Otherwise, it's about as appealing as swallowing caltrops.
I realise it's all imaginary. But I see no reason we should imagine it to be counter to logic.
Real world logic only applies to the real world, for one, but there are a looooot of creatures even in the real world who don't depend on chewing to kill a creature before swallowing. In fact most carnivores don't chew, they bite and swallow, which tracks with the logic of D&D monsters that have the swallow trait.
Regarding the question asked; this is really a DM's ruling type of question, but I would argue that 1) the wall will spring into existence inside the dragon, because while you can choose a point unrelated to sight, the spell will activate on the near side of total cover, which is the inside of the dragon. 2) what happens then depends on 1) the size of the dragon, 2) whether the DM considers the wall as slicing through its surroundings (as opposed to stopping at them, pushing them away, or passing through them). Worst case (for the caster) the wall's edges stop at the boundaries of the dragons stomach, or push the dragon to one side (which is weird, but in line with the written description). Best would be the spell expands inside the dragons stomach, and if the dragon is small enough, might harm it, and if it is large enough, might cause the acid to no longer reach the caster (but also prevent the caster from leaving the stomach). All of this is interpretation and improvisation though, on the part of the DM, and your mileage may vary.
Well you can substitute bite for chew if it makes you happier. Being bitten in half is roughly equivalent to being mulched by chewing. Dragons likely don't have molars anyways - and I simply fail to see how it makes any difference.
Real world logic applies 100% to verisimilitude - which applies 100% to immersion - which is why we do all the fluff and worldbuilding and backstories and plots and stuff, rather than simply play tabletop strategy.
Also, I realise frogs don't bite or chew flies they swallow. Why would they? The flies cannot hurt them. But notice how there are no animals that swallow caltrops whole? Know why? Because it would kill them. Just like swallowing living knights in shining armor kills dragons. So I see nothing wrong in the logic of making sure your snack is dead - when you're an ancient creature of godlike intelligence.
But hey - your game, your logic. Don't let me get in the way.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Well you can substitute bite for chew if it makes you happier. Being bitten in half is roughly equivalent to being mulched by chewing. Dragons likely don't have molars anyways - and I simply fail to see how it makes any difference.
My only response to this is that almost every creature with a swallow ability requires it to use a bite feature first, and remember, PCs are ridiculously overpowered relative to most humanoids. The bite attack of most dragons would be enough to kill practically any "normal" humanoid or prey animal, so the swallowing followup really doesn't matter for 99.9% of the dragons opponents
Real world logic applies 100% to verisimilitude - which applies 100% to immersion - which is why we do all the fluff and worldbuilding and backstories and plots and stuff, rather than simply play tabletop strategy.
Real world logic cannot apply to fantasy by default when there are things in fantasy that can break it. Magic, magical creatures, gods, devils, realms of pure evil and pure good; real world logic has nothing for these. The best you can do is use real world logic find an analogy to the real world, but you also have to understand that that is what it is at best, an analogy, not a law or rule that the fantasy must follow. Otherwise, while play a fantasy at all?
Also, I realize frogs don't bite or chew flies they swallow. Why would they? The flies cannot hurt them. But notice how there are no animals that swallow caltrops whole? Know why? Because it would kill them. Just like swallowing living knights in shining armor kills dragons. So I see nothing wrong in the logic of making sure your snack is dead - when you're an ancient creature of godlike intelligence.
White dragons are notoriously dumb...just saying. Even the ancient ones are intelligence 10 (+0), so the same as a normal human. The younger ones are dumber. Also, dragons are notoriously proud, and probably underestimate the abilities of humanoids because they consider them so far beneath themselves. why bother making sure they're dead before you swallow them down your mighty gullet? They are the flies to the dragons frog!.
But hey - your game, your logic. Don't let me get in the way
Well you can substitute bite for chew if it makes you happier. Being bitten in half is roughly equivalent to being mulched by chewing. Dragons likely don't have molars anyways - and I simply fail to see how it makes any difference.
Real world logic applies 100% to verisimilitude - which applies 100% to immersion - which is why we do all the fluff and worldbuilding and backstories and plots and stuff, rather than simply play tabletop strategy.
Also, I realise frogs don't bite or chew flies they swallow. Why would they? The flies cannot hurt them. But notice how there are no animals that swallow caltrops whole? Know why? Because it would kill them. Just like swallowing living knights in shining armor kills dragons. So I see nothing wrong in the logic of making sure your snack is dead - when you're an ancient creature of godlike intelligence.
But hey - your game, your logic. Don't let me get in the way.
Giant grouper eat lionfish whole, and lionfish are basically living, venomous caltrops.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Back to the original question - what happens if you cast wall of force while sliding down a dragon’s throat into its stomach? you live an extra 10 minutes! If you cast wall of force in a corridor it blocks the corridor without harming the walls - so it will block the dragon’s esophagus ( or surround the caster in he stomach if cast as a sphere) for the spell’s duration - 10 minutes - then collapse and the dragon can get on with swallowing and digesting you. Of course that gives you 10 minutes to figure out a way out of the dragon so maybe you do survive if you have the right spells or abilities from multiclassing or feats. If you have a bladed weapon you could probably cut your way out in that 10 minutes (60 rounds of chopping with a pretty good hit chance (Dragon throat inside AC =?10?) , various teleportation spells, etc. I could even see using something like Thunderwave against the wall as a creative way to blast yourself back out the dragon’s mouth. Maybe not strictly RAW BUT …..
If you're a wizard of high-enough level and get swallowed by a dragon, cast Delayed Blast Fireball, then cast Dimension Door to escape and give the dragon Delayed Blast Heartburn.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you want to chew the wizard up before swallowing to better represent reality in your estimation, then there should likely be at least a couple rounds of the chewing—a dragon’s bite doesn’t do 60+ HP in one shot. The wizard should have quite a lot of different options in that case.
If you want to chew the wizard up before swallowing to better represent reality in your estimation, then there should likely be at least a couple rounds of the chewing—a dragon’s bite doesn’t do 60+ HP in one shot. The wizard should have quite a lot of different options in that case.
Once in the mouth the dragon shouldn’t have to roll to hit - just for damage so the mage may need to roll con saves just to get the spells off.
If you want to chew the wizard up before swallowing to better represent reality in your estimation, then there should likely be at least a couple rounds of the chewing—a dragon’s bite doesn’t do 60+ HP in one shot. The wizard should have quite a lot of different options in that case.
Once in the mouth the dragon shouldn’t have to roll to hit - just for damage so the mage may need to roll con saves just to get the spells off.
I feel like this is largely irrelevant. Most of your better spell options for escape are not concentration based so your biggest concern is straight up damage until you are unconscious, at which point the dragon swallows you. I’ve normally seen a round or two after the swallowing extended to players to solve the character’s dilemma but Acromos objects to swallowing live PC’s. I think to say the dragon just chews and swallows you automatically because it got you in its maw is pretty harsh and suggest a round or two before the swallowing instead.
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if my wizard is swallowed by a adult white dragon, what would happen if i cant wall of force? would it essentially be an immovable rod? or what kind of damage would it deal? what kind of damage would i take? thoughts?
just to eliminate questions heres a little more info
war magic lvl 11 with 22 int and staff of frost so i have resistance to cold
“If the wall cuts through a creature's space when it appears, the creature is pushed to one side of the wall (your choice which side).“
Spells do what they say, so as it says, the monster is shunted to one side. Else nothing. It doesn’t move the wizard, it doesn’t damage the dragon.
So if im inside the stomach and i try to do force wall right infront of me before it comes into existence it would shove the dragon with me inside 5 feet to the side?
This specific interaction is not addressed by the rules. You would have to ask your DM.
The easiest answer is that both you and the dragon end up on the side of the wall that you cast the spell from.
Since you are swallowed, you would remain inside of the dragon, and do not occupy a specific square on the map.
Note that swallowing is not a RAW ability of an Adult White Dragon, so you are already outside of the rules.
Maybe not Wall of Force, but if you have some pellets of Dust of Dryness, you could crush them to create an absurd volume of water (15'x15'x15' cube) in the dragon's stomach with you , which at minimum should produce enough force to flush you out of the dragon, and if the dragon's not bigger than "Huge" size, that volume of water could feasibly explode the dragon's insides. Either way, it would get you out of the dragon.
By RAW, items only do what is in their description, so an item that isn't intended to do damage ought not. However, realistic or not, DMs often like to reward creative participation. Give it a shot, but be very clear to your DM about your intended effect.
Your DM may have different intuitions about interactions and will need to make a snap decision. As long as they know what your goal is, they can interpret events to be in your favor, even if not exactly as you imagined.
I always find it funny that we assume being swallowed is non-lethal. If I were a dragon, I'd just quickly chew the adventurer, before gulping him or her down. That being pulped by dragon fangs is fatal shouldn't really be subject to discussion. But I realise the rules say differently.
But ... to actually answer the question: Let's say the dragon's stomach is big enough for the sphere version of the spell. Then the spell would function as intended, basically immobilizing the dragon while protecting your wizard from being unpleasantly dissolved.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
An immovable rod would made quite a weapon in this instance.
If the dragon is flying just activate it and see if you could stop him and hang him in mid air. Or at least painfully slow him down while on the ground.
There are a lot of real creatures that eat their prey whole, and that's where people are coming from when they talk about D&D monsters swallowing characters whole.
... I'm well aware. I don't really see how that changes anything. Sure, a Gelatinous Cube cannot chew an adventurer, but most creatures capable of swallowing a knight in shining armor really should just quickly pulp him - or her - with it's mighty teeth. Otherwise, it's about as appealing as swallowing caltrops.
I realise it's all imaginary. But I see no reason we should imagine it to be counter to logic.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I think we're on the same page. It makes sense for enormous predators to make sure their prey is dead before swallowing it, and the intelligent ones like dragons most likely would. At the same time, creatures in the real world like frogs, heron, snakes, fish, etc. do swallow their food whole, and still alive, so having fantasy creatures that are significantly more monstrous than those real-world animals swallow its prey alive isn't outside the realm of realism... not any more than the existence of the massive monsters is.
Real world logic only applies to the real world, for one, but there are a looooot of creatures even in the real world who don't depend on chewing to kill a creature before swallowing. In fact most carnivores don't chew, they bite and swallow, which tracks with the logic of D&D monsters that have the swallow trait.
Regarding the question asked; this is really a DM's ruling type of question, but I would argue that 1) the wall will spring into existence inside the dragon, because while you can choose a point unrelated to sight, the spell will activate on the near side of total cover, which is the inside of the dragon. 2) what happens then depends on 1) the size of the dragon, 2) whether the DM considers the wall as slicing through its surroundings (as opposed to stopping at them, pushing them away, or passing through them). Worst case (for the caster) the wall's edges stop at the boundaries of the dragons stomach, or push the dragon to one side (which is weird, but in line with the written description). Best would be the spell expands inside the dragons stomach, and if the dragon is small enough, might harm it, and if it is large enough, might cause the acid to no longer reach the caster (but also prevent the caster from leaving the stomach). All of this is interpretation and improvisation though, on the part of the DM, and your mileage may vary.
Well you can substitute bite for chew if it makes you happier. Being bitten in half is roughly equivalent to being mulched by chewing. Dragons likely don't have molars anyways - and I simply fail to see how it makes any difference.
Real world logic applies 100% to verisimilitude - which applies 100% to immersion - which is why we do all the fluff and worldbuilding and backstories and plots and stuff, rather than simply play tabletop strategy.
Also, I realise frogs don't bite or chew flies they swallow. Why would they? The flies cannot hurt them. But notice how there are no animals that swallow caltrops whole? Know why? Because it would kill them. Just like swallowing living knights in shining armor kills dragons. So I see nothing wrong in the logic of making sure your snack is dead - when you're an ancient creature of godlike intelligence.
But hey - your game, your logic. Don't let me get in the way.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
My only response to this is that almost every creature with a swallow ability requires it to use a bite feature first, and remember, PCs are ridiculously overpowered relative to most humanoids. The bite attack of most dragons would be enough to kill practically any "normal" humanoid or prey animal, so the swallowing followup really doesn't matter for 99.9% of the dragons opponents
Real world logic cannot apply to fantasy by default when there are things in fantasy that can break it. Magic, magical creatures, gods, devils, realms of pure evil and pure good; real world logic has nothing for these. The best you can do is use real world logic find an analogy to the real world, but you also have to understand that that is what it is at best, an analogy, not a law or rule that the fantasy must follow. Otherwise, while play a fantasy at all?
White dragons are notoriously dumb...just saying. Even the ancient ones are intelligence 10 (+0), so the same as a normal human. The younger ones are dumber. Also, dragons are notoriously proud, and probably underestimate the abilities of humanoids because they consider them so far beneath themselves. why bother making sure they're dead before you swallow them down your mighty gullet? They are the flies to the dragons frog!.
Giant grouper eat lionfish whole, and lionfish are basically living, venomous caltrops.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Back to the original question - what happens if you cast wall of force while sliding down a dragon’s throat into its stomach?
you live an extra 10 minutes! If you cast wall of force in a corridor it blocks the corridor without harming the walls - so it will block the dragon’s esophagus ( or surround the caster in he stomach if cast as a sphere) for the spell’s duration - 10 minutes - then collapse and the dragon can get on with swallowing and digesting you. Of course that gives you 10 minutes to figure out a way out of the dragon so maybe you do survive if you have the right spells or abilities from multiclassing or feats. If you have a bladed weapon you could probably cut your way out in that 10 minutes (60 rounds of chopping with a pretty good hit chance (Dragon throat inside AC =?10?) , various teleportation spells, etc. I could even see using something like Thunderwave against the wall as a creative way to blast yourself back out the dragon’s mouth. Maybe not strictly RAW BUT …..
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
If you're a wizard of high-enough level and get swallowed by a dragon, cast Delayed Blast Fireball, then cast Dimension Door to escape and give the dragon Delayed Blast Heartburn.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you want to chew the wizard up before swallowing to better represent reality in your estimation, then there should likely be at least a couple rounds of the chewing—a dragon’s bite doesn’t do 60+ HP in one shot. The wizard should have quite a lot of different options in that case.
Once in the mouth the dragon shouldn’t have to roll to hit - just for damage so the mage may need to roll con saves just to get the spells off.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I feel like this is largely irrelevant. Most of your better spell options for escape are not concentration based so your biggest concern is straight up damage until you are unconscious, at which point the dragon swallows you. I’ve normally seen a round or two after the swallowing extended to players to solve the character’s dilemma but Acromos objects to swallowing live PC’s. I think to say the dragon just chews and swallows you automatically because it got you in its maw is pretty harsh and suggest a round or two before the swallowing instead.