Her entry says "Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature’s turn. Tiamat regains spent legendary actions at the start of her turn."
All of her breath attacks are legendary actions. Does this mean she CANNOT open a fight with breath attacks? Seems a bummer.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Monsters can use legendary actions before their first turn as long as they're not surprised in much the same way everyone can use a reaction before their first turn if they're not surprised.
EDIT: Sorry, I think I misunderstood the question. If she wins initiative she still has to wait for another creature to take a turn before she can use a breath weapon, yes. But she only ever has to wait for 1 other creature to take a turn regardless of how initiative shakes out.
As DM, Tiamat can obviously do whatever she would like.
Beyond the obvious, the mechanics of Actions dictate the flow of "Combat" and can essentially be ignored outside of that, it's always either someone's turn or everybody's turn. If combat has not yet been initiated, Tiamat could absolutely use a Breath Weapon to trigger "Roll Initiative!".
Once combat starts, Tiamat has either already used the breath weapon, or will shortly have an opportunity to do so.
Also, while it may be in poor taste, the phrasing of Legendary Actions is "...at the end of another creature's turn." This doesn't have to be a PC. There could be some MacGuffin mob that triggers the combat and creates an opportunity for Tiamat to use the Legendary Action. If you have multiple MacGuffins, you could technically trigger 2 Breaths and a Bite before either the player's or Tiamat's turn comes around. Though, your players will probably grind you into sausage if you do that.
So if the entire party saves their action and the saved action trigger never happens, then Tiamat is SOL for breath weapons?
You don't "save your action". You perform a Ready action on your turn. The readied action can then be taken during another character's turn later in the round.
If combat has not yet been initiated, Tiamat could absolutely use a Breath Weapon to trigger "Roll Initiative!". Once combat starts, Tiamat has either already used the breath weapon, or will shortly have an opportunity to do so.
Obviously the DM can do whatever they like but giving a creature a sucker punch outside of initiative order defeats the point of rolling for initiative in the first place.
You don't "save your action". You perform a Ready action on your turn. The readied action can then be taken during another character's turn later in the round.
This. Readying actions doesn't change the turn order. For two players to have taken the Ready action, one of them must've ended their turn to allow the other to take theirs.
Obviously the DM can do whatever they like but giving a creature a sucker punch outside of initiative order defeats the point of rolling for initiative in the first place.
A monster getting a Sucker Punch is consequently no different than a non-combat trap, environmental hazard, or dangerous skill challenge. Presumably the use of the breath attack would be narratively relevant, such as in the case that the party are trying to stealth their way past Tiamat for some reason and fail. A sucker punch for its own sake is certainly ill-advised.
Either way, the only thing this is intended to resolve is the issue of Tiamat winning initiative potentially making her introduction less compelling than it could be otherwise. If the players initiate combat within the range of the CR30 Tyrant of Dragon's breath weapon, they deserve a royal welcome as Tiamat's first action.
Mechanically, this would be far less dangerous than giving Tiamat a Surprise round, wherein she would likely get her turn and all of her legendary actions at the same time.
A monster getting a Sucker Punch is consequently no different than a non-combat trap, environmental hazard, or dangerous skill challenge.
The analogous situation to springing an unseen trap is surprise. You still roll for initiative in those cases.
Either way, the only thing this is intended to resolve is the issue of Tiamat winning initiative potentially making her introduction less compelling than it could be otherwise. If the players initiate combat within the range of the CR30 Tyrant of Dragon's breath weapon, they deserve a royal welcome as Tiamat's first action.
Like I said, she's going to be able to follow up with a breath weapon as soon as any of the players ends a turn regardless of initiative. If she won initiative she's also getting a Frightful Presence, 3 attacks with an attack roll modifier of 19, and possibly a DC 26 Divine Word on top of that. Add to that an insane level of regeneration, immunity to spells below 6th level, advantage against all other magic, 5 uses of Legendary Resistance, a ton of elemental and condition immunities, plus permanent Truesight to negate defensive buffs and I think she's got more than enough working in her favor.
...I think she's got more than enough working in her favor.
It's really not about what's "working in her favor", but rather whether a DM can choose to effectively start an encounter with Tiamat's breath weapon to which the answer is, "Yes, but..." as it requires reframing combat to make it RAW. Tiamat is the pinnacle of Evil Dragons and should be able to make a strong first impression. The mechanical effect itself is secondary. In storytelling, the order of events matters, so waiting until another creature's turn to make a big reveal risks deflating a cinematic moment. If absolutely necessary, a thoughtful DM could arrange for the party to be equipped with Plot Armor [Talisman of the Platinum Dragon, Single Use] to absorb the first breath weapon. Retain the impact without compromising the encounter difficulty.
I'm perfectly happy with flavoring her Frightful Presence as a dramatic show of force consisting of shooting her breath weapons into the air, especially if the party is outside of the 120ft range. That satisfies the same narrative role without the added complications. Claws and Tail swipes are nice tools, but are neither unique, nor particularly interesting, whereas biting at least benefits from having 5 heads. Unfortunately, Biting is also a Legendary Action.
Divine Word would be an exciting way to start, except that it has a 30ft range, and has no effect on a target with more than 50hp, so there is a good chance that it would just go to waste in the first round.
Though, this is largely irrelevant, as Tiamat has a Dex score of 10 (+0), and no bonuses to Initiative, so the odds of her winning initiative is effectively non-existent.
A monster getting a Sucker Punch is consequently no different than a non-combat trap, environmental hazard, or dangerous skill challenge.
The analogous situation to springing an unseen trap is surprise. You still roll for initiative in those cases.
Ouchie!
If Tiamat gets surprise on the party, then that's an awful lot of turns in the first round where the dragon can breath while each PC does nothing on their turn!
(Does changing from human back to dragon mid-discussion count as surprising the party?)
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Her entry says "Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature’s turn. Tiamat regains spent legendary actions at the start of her turn."
All of her breath attacks are legendary actions. Does this mean she CANNOT open a fight with breath attacks? Seems a bummer.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Monsters can use legendary actions before their first turn as long as they're not surprised in much the same way everyone can use a reaction before their first turn if they're not surprised.
EDIT: Sorry, I think I misunderstood the question. If she wins initiative she still has to wait for another creature to take a turn before she can use a breath weapon, yes. But she only ever has to wait for 1 other creature to take a turn regardless of how initiative shakes out.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
As DM, Tiamat can obviously do whatever she would like.
Beyond the obvious, the mechanics of Actions dictate the flow of "Combat" and can essentially be ignored outside of that, it's always either someone's turn or everybody's turn.
If combat has not yet been initiated, Tiamat could absolutely use a Breath Weapon to trigger "Roll Initiative!".
Once combat starts, Tiamat has either already used the breath weapon, or will shortly have an opportunity to do so.
Also, while it may be in poor taste, the phrasing of Legendary Actions is "...at the end of another creature's turn." This doesn't have to be a PC. There could be some MacGuffin mob that triggers the combat and creates an opportunity for Tiamat to use the Legendary Action. If you have multiple MacGuffins, you could technically trigger 2 Breaths and a Bite before either the player's or Tiamat's turn comes around. Though, your players will probably grind you into sausage if you do that.
So if the entire party saves their action and the saved action trigger never happens, then Tiamat is SOL for breath weapons?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You don't "save your action". You perform a Ready action on your turn. The readied action can then be taken during another character's turn later in the round.
Obviously the DM can do whatever they like but giving a creature a sucker punch outside of initiative order defeats the point of rolling for initiative in the first place.
This. Readying actions doesn't change the turn order. For two players to have taken the Ready action, one of them must've ended their turn to allow the other to take theirs.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Ah got it, I misinterpreted Ready. You still use your turn but your action uses up your reaction.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You have the option to use your Reaction later in the turn to use your readied action or readied movement.
You still have the option to use your Reaction for something else later in the turn instead of your readied action.
A monster getting a Sucker Punch is consequently no different than a non-combat trap, environmental hazard, or dangerous skill challenge. Presumably the use of the breath attack would be narratively relevant, such as in the case that the party are trying to stealth their way past Tiamat for some reason and fail. A sucker punch for its own sake is certainly ill-advised.
Either way, the only thing this is intended to resolve is the issue of Tiamat winning initiative potentially making her introduction less compelling than it could be otherwise. If the players initiate combat within the range of the CR30 Tyrant of Dragon's breath weapon, they deserve a royal welcome as Tiamat's first action.
Mechanically, this would be far less dangerous than giving Tiamat a Surprise round, wherein she would likely get her turn and all of her legendary actions at the same time.
The analogous situation to springing an unseen trap is surprise. You still roll for initiative in those cases.
Like I said, she's going to be able to follow up with a breath weapon as soon as any of the players ends a turn regardless of initiative. If she won initiative she's also getting a Frightful Presence, 3 attacks with an attack roll modifier of 19, and possibly a DC 26 Divine Word on top of that. Add to that an insane level of regeneration, immunity to spells below 6th level, advantage against all other magic, 5 uses of Legendary Resistance, a ton of elemental and condition immunities, plus permanent Truesight to negate defensive buffs and I think she's got more than enough working in her favor.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
It's really not about what's "working in her favor", but rather whether a DM can choose to effectively start an encounter with Tiamat's breath weapon to which the answer is, "Yes, but..." as it requires reframing combat to make it RAW. Tiamat is the pinnacle of Evil Dragons and should be able to make a strong first impression. The mechanical effect itself is secondary. In storytelling, the order of events matters, so waiting until another creature's turn to make a big reveal risks deflating a cinematic moment. If absolutely necessary, a thoughtful DM could arrange for the party to be equipped with Plot Armor [Talisman of the Platinum Dragon, Single Use] to absorb the first breath weapon. Retain the impact without compromising the encounter difficulty.
I'm perfectly happy with flavoring her Frightful Presence as a dramatic show of force consisting of shooting her breath weapons into the air, especially if the party is outside of the 120ft range. That satisfies the same narrative role without the added complications. Claws and Tail swipes are nice tools, but are neither unique, nor particularly interesting, whereas biting at least benefits from having 5 heads. Unfortunately, Biting is also a Legendary Action.
Divine Word would be an exciting way to start, except that it has a 30ft range, and has no effect on a target with more than 50hp, so there is a good chance that it would just go to waste in the first round.
Though, this is largely irrelevant, as Tiamat has a Dex score of 10 (+0), and no bonuses to Initiative, so the odds of her winning initiative is effectively non-existent.
Ouchie!
If Tiamat gets surprise on the party, then that's an awful lot of turns in the first round where the dragon can breath while each PC does nothing on their turn!
(Does changing from human back to dragon mid-discussion count as surprising the party?)