Hi there, So I'm currently making an elven archery fighter with the elven accuracy feat, but I'm a little confused by it.
It says that:
Whenever you have advantage on an attack roll using Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, you can reroll one of the dice once.
This feat's flavor is that elves have great accuracy, especially their archers and spellcasters, so I'm guessing this feat is mostly meant for ranged characters (though I understand some classes could also use this feat in melee like a armorer artificer and hexblade warlock).
But my question is, how would you get advantage on an attack roll while standing like 10 feet or more away from the enemy? As the most consistent way to get advantage (that I've at least had in the games I have played in so far) has been flanking, which you can't really do as a ranged attacker.
I know there is f.e. pack tactics (but a kobold can't take this feat as it's specifically meant for elves and half-elves) and some spells like faerie fire, but I don't think my party members have spells that can give someone advantage while they're not in melee and if they do, they can't use it too often otherwise they can't attack themselves. So is there any other, more consistent way to get advantage so I can get some decent use out of this feat?
But my question is, how would you get advantage on an attack roll while standing like 10 feet or more away from the enemy? As the most consistent way to get advantage (that I've at least had in the games I have played in so far) has been flanking, which you can't really do as a ranged attacker.
You could also use flanking if you attack at melee range. Melee spell attacks should qualify for flanking and finesse weapons allows you to use Dex to attack.
Hi there, So I'm currently making an elven archery fighter with the elven accuracy feat, but I'm a little confused by it.
Samurai Archer with Elven Accuracy is nice, and Arcane Archer with the right Arrows can also benefit from that.
Yeah, I think Elven Accuracy and Fighter-Samurai with Archer style is the main one I often hear about, although I've seen a few deep calculations in the past that put a straight battlemaster archer ahead of Elven Accuracy/Samurai and Arcane Archer for archery styles. but you can rely on your party to help with spells or maneuvers. Obviously there's rogue and Ranger Gloomstalker in darkness gets advantage for being effectively invisible to even creatures with darkvision or get the Blind fighting style to be that little bit deadlier in combat, even when darkness is cast.
Again, the deep calculator guys out there who have run the statistics don't tend to think Elven Accuracy is all that strong as supposedly the bonus isn't that significant as it might seem when you already have advantage. Particularly to get Critical hits.
Lucky is still praised because you can apply it anywhere, even to turn "Disadvantage" into 3 dice Advantage.
But my question is, how would you get advantage on an attack roll while standing like 10 feet or more away from the enemy? As the most consistent way to get advantage (that I've at least had in the games I have played in so far) has been flanking, which you can't really do as a ranged attacker.
Flanking is an optional rule. The most commonly available way to get advantage on an attack roll is by having an ally (e.g. an owl summoned by Find Familiar, but all of your allies can do it) take the help action. As others have noted in this thread, other options include:
Rendering your target restrained, such as by using a net.
Rendering your target stunned (e.g. by having an allied monk hit them with Stunning Fist), paralyzed (e.g. by using Carrion Crawler Mucus, a contact poison), or petrified (e.g. via [Tooltip Not Found]).
Elven accuracy, Samurai Archer, if you have high enough stats you might even throw in kensei perhaps, after all this is a roleplaying game and it seems you are after flavor/there rather than max efficiency, you can get a rather efficient build while having a elven character with an exotic elven vibe. And by all means it simply suits wood elves... both thematically and powerplay wise. I'd focus more on Kensei rather than Samurai and might even consider getting rogue/scout, for some nice expert skills that suits wood elves and some added mobility.
3 levels of rogue/scout, 3 levels/of fighter/samurai, rest is kensei(reaching all saving throw profs at max level). Elven Accuracy, Sharpshooter, Perceptive or Piercer(or steathy) perhaps, if you are rolling you might max out both dex and wis, you'll only get 3 feats with this build. Starting as any class works, but monk will probably be best for earliest acces to sharpshooter or ea. Not to mention this build is not a pure powerplay build, it's simply a Woodelf build, which feels like a wood elf while being effective (while still not being a ranger)
More efficient builds:(due to feats acquired)
8 Fighter/Samurai, 4 Rogue/Assasin, 4 Ranger/Gloom Stalker, 4 Monk/Kensei if you want more dps build which can adapt to underdark aswell, a shadow touched version(follower of Shevarash) (might be from Forest of Mir where Drow activity is rampant, or Northern forests, unless he/she is from Far East)
8 Fighter/Samurai, 4 Rogue/Scout, 4 Monk/Kensei, 4 Ranger/Fey Wanderer, if you want more versatile build which can adapt to both urban and survival settings, a fey touched version(follower of Solonor) (Might be from almost anywhere, best candidates Wealdath/Forest of Tethyr, Ardeep Forest, High Forest, Moonshae Isles or even Evermeet unless he/she is from Far East like Kara-Tur or Wa)
Or either can be from around Evereska, perhaps a member of the famous elven mercenary archers called the "Silent Rain"
Above are for Forgotten Realms setting tho, you probably got the idea.
Getting advantage on attack rolls can be a challenge for many classes unless a DM makes it easy by allowing flanking but that only works for melee attacks (and personally, I never use it as an optional rule since I find advantage to be too strong a modifier for flanking).
However, there are a number of standard ways that certain classes can use to get it - particularly rogues.
- Rogue - steady aim bonus action, bonus action hide followed by an attack from hidden if successful
- Spells - find familiar (familiar can use the help action to provide advantage for one character), faerie fire, greater invisibility (regular invisibility is only good for one attack), hold person (etc)
- Warlock - Darkness spell + devils sight to see through magical darkness - attacker can't be seen by can see the target giving advantage, Shadow of Moil (4th level spell)
- Fog cloud or darkness + blindfighting fighting style
- Samurai fighter - fighting spirit - 3 times/long rest, requires a bonus action and only lasts the turn - ranged or melee
- Vengeance paladin - Vow of Enmity channel divinity - 1/short rest - lasts 1 minute - 10' range so melee
Most of these mechanisms rely on the vision rules to obtain advantage.
Other options are:
- grappling an opponent and knocking them prone - melee attacks within 5' have advantage (but ranged attacks have disadvantage). However, since the grappled creature's speed is zero they can't stand up
-----
One of the biggest reasons I find Elven Accuracy to not be that great is that in most games, except for certain builds and classes, it can be challenging to regularly get advantage on attack rolls.
Elven accuracy, Samurai Archer, if you have high enough stats you might even throw in kensei perhaps, after all this is a roleplaying game and it seems you are after flavor/there rather than max efficiency, you can get a rather efficient build while having a elven character with an exotic elven vibe. And by all means it simply suits wood elves... both thematically and powerplay wise. I'd focus more on Kensei rather than Samurai and might even consider getting rogue/scout, for some nice expert skills that suits wood elves and some added mobility.
3 levels of rogue/scout, 3 levels/of fighter/samurai, rest is kensei(reaching all saving throw profs at max level). Elven Accuracy, Sharpshooter, Perceptive or Piercer(or steathy) perhaps, if you are rolling you might max out both dex and wis, you'll only get 3 feats with this build. Starting as any class works, but monk will probably be best for earliest acces to sharpshooter or ea. Not to mention this build is not a pure powerplay build, it's simply a Woodelf build, which feels like a wood elf while being effective (while still not being a ranger)
More efficient builds:(due to feats acquired)
8 Fighter/Samurai, 4 Rogue/Assasin, 4 Ranger/Gloom Stalker, 4 Monk/Kensei if you want more dps build which can adapt to underdark aswell, a shadow touched version(follower of Shevarash) (might be from Forest of Mir where Drow activity is rampant, or Northern forests, unless he/she is from Far East)
8 Fighter/Samurai, 4 Rogue/Scout, 4 Monk/Kensei, 4 Ranger/Fey Wanderer, if you want more versatile build which can adapt to both urban and survival settings, a fey touched version(follower of Solonor) (Might be from almost anywhere, best candidates Wealdath/Forest of Tethyr, Ardeep Forest, High Forest, Moonshae Isles or even Evermeet unless he/she is from Far East like Kara-Tur or Wa)
Or either can be from around Evereska, perhaps a member of the famous elven mercenary archers called the "Silent Rain"
Above are for Forgotten Realms setting tho, you probably got the idea.
Thanks, I was already considering multiclassing into Assassin Rogue to not only get sneak attack for some extra damage, but also to get the advantage in the first round of combat including the crits if I hit.
a familiar from the find familiar spell or maybe a homunculus (artificer) can use the help action to give advantage. And RAW the familiar can be next to you to do this.
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Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
a familiar from the find familiar spell or maybe a homunculus (artificer) can use the help action to give advantage. And RAW the familiar can be next to you to do this.
The familiar needs to be within 5' of your target not next to you. This is one of the reasons an owl is a very popular familiar since it can fly within 5' of the target, use the help action and then fly away without triggering a opportunity attack due to the fly-by ability.
"Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally’s attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
Absolutely and entirely force your druids in your party to Faerie Fire the target in their first action. Every. Time. I am playing a Ranger Druid myself just so I can FF and Hunter's mark in my first action, while having high initiative. Then pew pew sharpshooter+elven accuracy.
Absolutely and entirely force your druids in your party to Faerie Fire the target in their first action. Every. Time. I am playing a Ranger Druid myself just so I can FF and Hunter's mark in my first action, while having high initiative. Then pew pew sharpshooter+elven accuracy.
You can't cast faerie fire and hunter’s mark in the same turn. If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 bonus action, you can’t cast any other spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
Absolutely and entirely force your druids in your party to Faerie Fire the target in their first action. Every. Time. I am playing a Ranger Druid myself just so I can FF and Hunter's mark in my first action, while having high initiative. Then pew pew sharpshooter+elven accuracy.
You can't cast faerie fire and hunter’s mark in the same turn. If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 bonus action, you can’t cast any other spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
Also both are concentration spells. So even if you cast them on separate turns the first one you cast ends the moment you cast the second.
Be warned, in most games where people take elven accuracy it is over-estimated. It has two significant advantages - increasing the chance to hit and increasing the chance of a critical.
But way too often the games where you take elven accuracy tend to be Higher powered games where hitting the bad guy is not that hard to do. The higher CR monsters protect themselves with more HP rather than high AC. If you hit on a 3 or better, getting three rather than two attempts to get a 4 is not that big a deal.
So the real improvement is the crit.
So to maximize the benefit of Elven Accuracy, I suggest people consider Champion (crit on 19 or 20, then 18-20 later on) rather than other fighter builds. I also suggest weapons that do more on crits.
A fighter attacking 4 times (4/20), critting on 18-20 (12/20), getting three chances to get that 18-20 (36/20) should be critting more than once a round.
Note, I am not saying that Champion is a good subclass, but I am saying that Elven Accuracy is not that great in most games without Champion. You get all happy cause you hit, but you would still be hitting even without it.
Please, no one actually choose Champion fighter. Any other subclass is better. And 3 levels of fighter to crit on a 19 is never going to be worth it if you're level dipping. There are better options for whatever you're trying to do than that subclass. It is bar none the single worst subclass in the game.
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I got quotes!
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Hi there,
So I'm currently making an elven archery fighter with the elven accuracy feat, but I'm a little confused by it.
It says that:
This feat's flavor is that elves have great accuracy, especially their archers and spellcasters, so I'm guessing this feat is mostly meant for ranged characters (though I understand some classes could also use this feat in melee like a armorer artificer and hexblade warlock).
But my question is, how would you get advantage on an attack roll while standing like 10 feet or more away from the enemy? As the most consistent way to get advantage (that I've at least had in the games I have played in so far) has been flanking, which you can't really do as a ranged attacker.
I know there is f.e. pack tactics (but a kobold can't take this feat as it's specifically meant for elves and half-elves) and some spells like faerie fire, but I don't think my party members have spells that can give someone advantage while they're not in melee and if they do, they can't use it too often otherwise they can't attack themselves. So is there any other, more consistent way to get advantage so I can get some decent use out of this feat?
There are a few conditions that does it (and spells that impose those conditions). The main way usually though is being an unseen attacker (which is why Rogues likes hiding so much).
You could also use flanking if you attack at melee range. Melee spell attacks should qualify for flanking and finesse weapons allows you to use Dex to attack.
Samurai Archer with Elven Accuracy is nice, and Arcane Archer with the right Arrows can also benefit from that.
Yeah, I think Elven Accuracy and Fighter-Samurai with Archer style is the main one I often hear about, although I've seen a few deep calculations in the past that put a straight battlemaster archer ahead of Elven Accuracy/Samurai and Arcane Archer for archery styles. but you can rely on your party to help with spells or maneuvers. Obviously there's rogue and Ranger Gloomstalker in darkness gets advantage for being effectively invisible to even creatures with darkvision or get the Blind fighting style to be that little bit deadlier in combat, even when darkness is cast.
Again, the deep calculator guys out there who have run the statistics don't tend to think Elven Accuracy is all that strong as supposedly the bonus isn't that significant as it might seem when you already have advantage. Particularly to get Critical hits.
Lucky is still praised because you can apply it anywhere, even to turn "Disadvantage" into 3 dice Advantage.
Flanking is an optional rule. The most commonly available way to get advantage on an attack roll is by having an ally (e.g. an owl summoned by Find Familiar, but all of your allies can do it) take the help action. As others have noted in this thread, other options include:
Elven accuracy, Samurai Archer, if you have high enough stats you might even throw in kensei perhaps, after all this is a roleplaying game and it seems you are after flavor/there rather than max efficiency, you can get a rather efficient build while having a elven character with an exotic elven vibe. And by all means it simply suits wood elves... both thematically and powerplay wise. I'd focus more on Kensei rather than Samurai and might even consider getting rogue/scout, for some nice expert skills that suits wood elves and some added mobility.
3 levels of rogue/scout, 3 levels/of fighter/samurai, rest is kensei(reaching all saving throw profs at max level). Elven Accuracy, Sharpshooter, Perceptive or Piercer(or steathy) perhaps, if you are rolling you might max out both dex and wis, you'll only get 3 feats with this build. Starting as any class works, but monk will probably be best for earliest acces to sharpshooter or ea. Not to mention this build is not a pure powerplay build, it's simply a Woodelf build, which feels like a wood elf while being effective (while still not being a ranger)
More efficient builds:(due to feats acquired)
8 Fighter/Samurai, 4 Rogue/Assasin, 4 Ranger/Gloom Stalker, 4 Monk/Kensei if you want more dps build which can adapt to underdark aswell, a shadow touched version(follower of Shevarash) (might be from Forest of Mir where Drow activity is rampant, or Northern forests, unless he/she is from Far East)
8 Fighter/Samurai, 4 Rogue/Scout, 4 Monk/Kensei, 4 Ranger/Fey Wanderer, if you want more versatile build which can adapt to both urban and survival settings, a fey touched version(follower of Solonor) (Might be from almost anywhere, best candidates Wealdath/Forest of Tethyr, Ardeep Forest, High Forest, Moonshae Isles or even Evermeet unless he/she is from Far East like Kara-Tur or Wa)
Or either can be from around Evereska, perhaps a member of the famous elven mercenary archers called the "Silent Rain"
Above are for Forgotten Realms setting tho, you probably got the idea.
Getting advantage on attack rolls can be a challenge for many classes unless a DM makes it easy by allowing flanking but that only works for melee attacks (and personally, I never use it as an optional rule since I find advantage to be too strong a modifier for flanking).
However, there are a number of standard ways that certain classes can use to get it - particularly rogues.
- Rogue - steady aim bonus action, bonus action hide followed by an attack from hidden if successful
- Spells - find familiar (familiar can use the help action to provide advantage for one character), faerie fire, greater invisibility (regular invisibility is only good for one attack), hold person (etc)
- Warlock - Darkness spell + devils sight to see through magical darkness - attacker can't be seen by can see the target giving advantage, Shadow of Moil (4th level spell)
- Fog cloud or darkness + blindfighting fighting style
- Samurai fighter - fighting spirit - 3 times/long rest, requires a bonus action and only lasts the turn - ranged or melee
- Vengeance paladin - Vow of Enmity channel divinity - 1/short rest - lasts 1 minute - 10' range so melee
Most of these mechanisms rely on the vision rules to obtain advantage.
Other options are:
- grappling an opponent and knocking them prone - melee attacks within 5' have advantage (but ranged attacks have disadvantage). However, since the grappled creature's speed is zero they can't stand up
-----
One of the biggest reasons I find Elven Accuracy to not be that great is that in most games, except for certain builds and classes, it can be challenging to regularly get advantage on attack rolls.
Thanks, I was already considering multiclassing into Assassin Rogue to not only get sneak attack for some extra damage, but also to get the advantage in the first round of combat including the crits if I hit.
a familiar from the find familiar spell or maybe a homunculus (artificer) can use the help action to give advantage. And RAW the familiar can be next to you to do this.
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
The familiar needs to be within 5' of your target not next to you. This is one of the reasons an owl is a very popular familiar since it can fly within 5' of the target, use the help action and then fly away without triggering a opportunity attack due to the fly-by ability.
"Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally’s attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
Absolutely and entirely force your druids in your party to Faerie Fire the target in their first action. Every. Time.
I am playing a Ranger Druid myself just so I can FF and Hunter's mark in my first action, while having high initiative.
Then pew pew sharpshooter+elven accuracy.
You can't cast faerie fire and hunter’s mark in the same turn. If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 bonus action, you can’t cast any other spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
Also both are concentration spells. So even if you cast them on separate turns the first one you cast ends the moment you cast the second.
Be warned, in most games where people take elven accuracy it is over-estimated. It has two significant advantages - increasing the chance to hit and increasing the chance of a critical.
But way too often the games where you take elven accuracy tend to be Higher powered games where hitting the bad guy is not that hard to do. The higher CR monsters protect themselves with more HP rather than high AC. If you hit on a 3 or better, getting three rather than two attempts to get a 4 is not that big a deal.
So the real improvement is the crit.
So to maximize the benefit of Elven Accuracy, I suggest people consider Champion (crit on 19 or 20, then 18-20 later on) rather than other fighter builds. I also suggest weapons that do more on crits.
A fighter attacking 4 times (4/20), critting on 18-20 (12/20), getting three chances to get that 18-20 (36/20) should be critting more than once a round.
Note, I am not saying that Champion is a good subclass, but I am saying that Elven Accuracy is not that great in most games without Champion. You get all happy cause you hit, but you would still be hitting even without it.
Please, no one actually choose Champion fighter. Any other subclass is better. And 3 levels of fighter to crit on a 19 is never going to be worth it if you're level dipping. There are better options for whatever you're trying to do than that subclass. It is bar none the single worst subclass in the game.
I got quotes!