Question on the help action in combat, involving the following:
"Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
I'm confused by how this works as RAW, intended, or even how it is used in general with an owl find familiar spell strategy.
1) It says that the creature that will be potentially attacked, has to be within 5 feet of you. From what I have read, it seems that you can fly in with an owl familiar to take the help action and then fly out; even though the owl familiar is no longer within 5 feet, since you helped when you were within 5 feet. Just confirming, but I believe this is true since the help action says "Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you."; although once your ally is actually attacking the creature, you are no longer within 5 feet of the creature.
2) I have also read that some are saying the RAW is that the help action only help a specific creature; although others say it helps the first allied creature on their first attack due to a comment by Jeremy Crawford. Not sure if there is any confirmation on any of this. This confusion is due to the terminology 'If your ally' instead of 'If an ally' when mentioning the following part of the help action, "If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
3) My main question is the range on the ally creature you are aiding, and if the allied creature needs to be near the creature that will be attacked when you use the help action. (This may also depend on the ruling in #1 and #2). It seems that you can take the help action to give advantage, even if no ally creature is near you and even if the ally isn't near the creature that will be potentially attacked; this seems to be to the point that your ally creature doesn't even need to be on the same plane of existence, yet could come back from something like a banishment spell and still have the advantage. Just wanted to double check on this as well since the help action doesn't mention the distance of the ally(s) you are trying to help from you, and doesn't mention that you even need to be able to perceive them with your senses; such as an invisible ally as well.
To my understanding... it's correct that a Helper must be within five feet of a Target in order to perform the Help Action for attacking purposes.
Keep in mind that, despite the illogical contradictions this can create, every Turn in a Round occurs simultaneously... that's why a full Round is always 6 seconds, no matter how many Turns occur within that Round. So if a Helper is getting into a Target's face enough to count as the Help Action, despite the fact that the Helper then moves away, the Attacker is actually attacking simultaneously with the Help Action being performed.
It doesn't really make a lot of sense with movement and all, but that's just one of the many ways where D&D works as a Game but fails as a Simulation.
Help is performed for the benefit of a specific Attacker. That's the most literal way to read "A Friendly Creature", which implies a specific Friendly Creature. This is definitely one of those things that's been interpreted wildly differently by different DMs and even game designers, but I personally believe that when a creature performs the Help Action it is explicitly for the benefit of a specific Ally.
And yes... you can Help an Ally who is attacking using Ranged Weaponry... as long as they're able to make an attack before the start of your next turn they get to take that first attack with advantage. If the Ally is unable to make an attack (their weapon's range isn't high enough, they're out of ammo, etc.) then that's the only reason they wouldn't still get the benefits from the Help Action when Attacking.
2) It has to be a specific person that you are helping, " you can aid a friendly creature". The "a" means you need to specify who you are helping. (Note the use of "your ally" later in the paragraph too.)
3) The helped friendly creature can use a ranged attack.
2) It has to be a specific person that you are helping, " you can aid a friendly creature". The "a" means you need to specify who you are helping. (Note the use of "your ally" later in the paragraph too.)
When you use the help action to assist in an ability check, you target the creature you are helping. When you use the help action to assist in combat, you target the creature you are using it against. Therefore, when you help in combat, the next attack gets advantage on the attack roll. Of all places, the D&D DM's screen lays it out in a bit clearer detail.
You help one creature with a task, giving that creature advantage on the next ability check it makes for that task. Or you distract one creature within 5 feet of you, and the next attack roll that an ally of yours makes against that creature has advantage.
Whichever option you choose, the advantage goes away once used or when your next turn starts.
2) It has to be a specific person that you are helping, " you can aid a friendly creature". The "a" means you need to specify who you are helping. (Note the use of "your ally" later in the paragraph too.)
When you use the help action to assist in an ability check, you target the creature you are helping. When you use the help action to assist in combat, you target the creature you are using it against. Therefore, when you help in combat, the next attack gets advantage on the attack roll. Of all places, the D&D DM's screen lays it out in a bit clearer detail.
You help one creature with a task, giving that creature advantage on the next ability check it makes for that task. Or you distract one creature within 5 feet of you, and the next attack roll that an ally of yours makes against that creature has advantage.
Whichever option you choose, the advantage goes away once used or when your next turn starts.
That makes since to me. The enemy creature is the target and must be within 5 feet of you when you take the action, but you can move away after taking the action. The next ally gets the advantage, regardless of how far they are from the targeted creature or if they were even on the same plane of existence.
I assume you could use the Ready action to prepare a Help action for a specific allied creature. So, "I ready the help action as an action to trigger as a reaction against enemy monster Z, once my named ally character A chooses to take the attack action to attack enemy monster Z."
Another question I have though is, what happens if you and your owl familiar use the help action on the same enemy monster? I assume this would be a waste, and instead the strategy would be to use the help action on two different monsters instead.
2) It has to be a specific person that you are helping, " you can aid a friendly creature". The "a" means you need to specify who you are helping. (Note the use of "your ally" later in the paragraph too.)
When you use the help action to assist in an ability check, you target the creature you are helping. When you use the help action to assist in combat, you target the creature you are using it against. Therefore, when you help in combat, the next attack gets advantage on the attack roll. Of all places, the D&D DM's screen lays it out in a bit clearer detail.
You help one creature with a task, giving that creature advantage on the next ability check it makes for that task. Or you distract one creature within 5 feet of you, and the next attack roll that an ally of yours makes against that creature has advantage.
Whichever option you choose, the advantage goes away once used or when your next turn starts.
Unfortunately, the D&D DMs screen is not RAW. It is the interpretation by whoever wrote the content of the screen and the alternative meaning may have slipped in as they tried to reduce the number of words in the rule. It is possible it is RAI.
"HELP You can lend your aid to another creature in the completion of a task. When you take the Help action, the creature you aid gains advantage on the next ability check it makes to perform the task you are helping with, provided that it makes the check before the start of your next turn. Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
As written, you either aid another creature in completing a task OR you aid a friendly creature in making an attack (the rules specify that in both cases you HELP another creature and then goes on to describe what the nature of that help might be). No where in this rule does it state that the aid provided to an ally must be the next attack against the distracted creature.
In addition, as mentioned, all turns happen within the 6 second round. D&D isn't a simulation so simultaneity isn't really considered even though turns are resolved sequentially so, personally, I don't really see any issue with the help action assisting whichever other friendly creature the helper desires.
Anyway, DMs can choose to run it however they think best but the rules don't specify that the next attack is the one to which the help action applies and the wording of the help action rules itself is suggestive that the help action can be used to assist whichever friendly creature the creature taking the help action prefers.
2) It has to be a specific person that you are helping, " you can aid a friendly creature". The "a" means you need to specify who you are helping. (Note the use of "your ally" later in the paragraph too.)
When you use the help action to assist in an ability check, you target the creature you are helping. When you use the help action to assist in combat, you target the creature you are using it against. Therefore, when you help in combat, the next attack gets advantage on the attack roll. Of all places, the D&D DM's screen lays it out in a bit clearer detail.
You help one creature with a task, giving that creature advantage on the next ability check it makes for that task. Or you distract one creature within 5 feet of you, and the next attack roll that an ally of yours makes against that creature has advantage.
Whichever option you choose, the advantage goes away once used or when your next turn starts.
That makes since to me. The enemy creature is the target and must be within 5 feet of you when you take the action, but you can move away after taking the action. The next ally gets the advantage, regardless of how far they are from the targeted creature or if they were even on the same plane of existence.
I assume you could use the Ready action to prepare a Help action for a specific allied creature. So, "I ready the help action as an action to trigger as a reaction against enemy monster Z, once my named ally character A chooses to take the attack action to attack enemy monster Z."
Another question I have though is, what happens if you and your owl familiar use the help action on the same enemy monster? I assume this would be a waste, and instead the strategy would be to use the help action on two different monsters instead.
Thank you again for you help!
I think your second question is a good reason why it may not be the next attack on a creature but rather an attack by a specific creature.
You could have a group of 6 with 3 taking the help action. Depending on the initiative order, only one of those help actions might be effective. On the other hand, if using the wording in the PHB, then 3 creatures could help 3 other specific creatures thus making all of the help actions effective.
Its a DM call on how they want to run it and I've seen both in use, but more often the specific creature version than the next attack version.
I've never seen the DM Screen, so my interpretation has been entirely based on the wording of the PHB, which is clear that you are helping a specific ally in combat.
So you could walk up to a creature take the HELP action and then walk away, with possibly taking an Opportunity Attack?
Yep! This is why the Owl is such a popular choice for Familiar, because they have a feature that prevents them from being targeted by Opportunity Attacks, so they can repeatedly dive-bomb enemies, then fly back out of reach to continually give the Help Action.
I've been thinking about this, and (in combat) the idea that an owl can jump in, set the help action, then jump out, despite probably being the correct way to interpret the rule, creates a possible OP scenario potentially giving the familiar owner advantage on every attack. Is the idea that a player can have advantage on every attack a normal strategy? Or is it not keeping within the spirit of the game? I tend to lean towards the latter.
So, in a pure reading of the rules, the strategy of:
owl -move action- to within 5 feet of target, owl -help action-, owl -move action- leave combat with flyby, help action effect STAYS on target regardless of owl's location when the helpee's turn comes up IS THE VALID STRATEGY. The helpee now takes their action with advantage on the target and the owl is already out of the way beyond 5 feet.
The result of this is the owl familiar is an EXTREMELY powerful tool, and many players are aware of this. Here is the alternate reading of the rule (the one some think is not correct):
The owl must REMAIN in the 5ft range WHEN THE HELPEE'S TURN COMES. Thus the helpee can only get the advantage if the familiar IS STILL WITHIN 5FT OF THE TARGET WHEN IT IS THE HELPEE'S TURN. While this may not be correct to the rule as written, this probably aligns more to the spirit of play. Help is not a status that persists through turns. It is an action that only happens when you are 5ft from your target, and the moment you are out of 5ft, the action ends and the effect is gone. My personal belief is that this is probably a more honest interpretation of the idea and is also more challenging.
If your turn is after your familiar then you can take advantage. If the enemy can go after your familiar, it gives them a chance to attack the familiar before you get your advantage attack. It provides risk vs reward to the encounter that I think is more interesting and fun. Most advantages given to the player against a target should have some kind of risk involved that they accept. Following the rule as written just puts the DM in a meta game where they prioritize your familiar at every encounter. There is no in game explanation a mob would do this. It is the DM trying to mitigate against a very big threat against them.
My familiar is more than a "give me advantage in fights" bot. It has many uses. Once it is gone, it takes time and resources to bring it back. I don't want it killed in the first fight cause the DM knows what it can do. That's not organic play in my opinion.
Your familiar does not get a separate initiative than you, it shares yours. So the familiar can go either just before you or just after to help someone else.
Since the rogue only gets one sneak attack a round no matter how many attacks he might actually get is the limiting factor.
The owl lets a rogue use his sneak attack at range without waiting for an ally to get within 5ft of the bad guy.
Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands. In combat, it rolls its own initiative and acts on its own turn. A familiar can't attack, but it can take other actions as normal.
But after the first round no one goes first just before and after. And if the familiar is getting attacked he just proved his usefulness. He took the attack from a PC.
Forcing the owl to stay inside 5ft from the bad guy pretty much nurfs his only real use in combat. Though I do think any flying familiar should get the same maneuver of being able to disengage without suffering an automatic attack. Its not like the owls are the fastest fliers.
If your DM allows it the familiar can "ready" their help action and use in any initiative after its own that the owner wants. It does follow the orders of the caster.
Your familiar does not get a separate initiative than you, it shares yours. So the familiar can go either just before you or just after to help someone else.
Since the rogue only gets one sneak attack a round no matter how many attacks he might actually get is the limiting factor.
The owl lets a rogue use his sneak attack at range without waiting for an ally to get within 5ft of the bad guy.
Minor nitpick. Rogues can sneak attack once per turn.
The target is definitely an ally who gets to choose who they attack. It seems to make more sense with melee rather than ranged in my mind. It seems to me like the owl flies into range of the ally making the attack and flies away but does some evasive maneuvers in the meantime. The owl doesn’t need to hang out there, just as a rogue could jump in, do a little teamwork and leave.
5e plays in such a strange way to get these “easy” rules that don’t actually make sense.
The target is definitely an ally who gets to choose who they attack. It seems to make more sense with melee rather than ranged in my mind. It seems to me like the owl flies into range of the ally making the attack and flies away but does some evasive maneuvers in the meantime. The owl doesn’t need to hang out there, just as a rogue could jump in, do a little teamwork and leave.
5e plays in such a strange way to get these “easy” rules that don’t actually make sense.
HELP: "Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally’s attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
The creature/character/familiar taking the help action allows advantage on the first attack by a specific ally against a creature within 5' of them when they take the help action. It is not a creature within 5' of an ally.
An owl can fly within 5' of the target, distract them, and fly away allowing the ally to make their FIRST attack against that target with advantage.
Works perfectly well with either ranged or melee attacks.
One important thing to keep in mind is that initiative is an artificial structure designed to make a combat round playable. The 6 second combat round represents all of the creatures involved in the combat doing things simultaneously. Each creature doesn't really stand around waiting for each other creature to take their turn. This is why the creature performing the help action can choose which ally they provide the benefit to - their assistance is timed to help that particular ally since the "initiative" order is essentially just a construct to make resolving each creature's actions feasible.
Question on the help action in combat, involving the following:
"Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
I'm confused by how this works as RAW, intended, or even how it is used in general with an owl find familiar spell strategy.
1) It says that the creature that will be potentially attacked, has to be within 5 feet of you. From what I have read, it seems that you can fly in with an owl familiar to take the help action and then fly out; even though the owl familiar is no longer within 5 feet, since you helped when you were within 5 feet. Just confirming, but I believe this is true since the help action says "Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you."; although once your ally is actually attacking the creature, you are no longer within 5 feet of the creature.
2) I have also read that some are saying the RAW is that the help action only help a specific creature; although others say it helps the first allied creature on their first attack due to a comment by Jeremy Crawford. Not sure if there is any confirmation on any of this. This confusion is due to the terminology 'If your ally' instead of 'If an ally' when mentioning the following part of the help action, "If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
3) My main question is the range on the ally creature you are aiding, and if the allied creature needs to be near the creature that will be attacked when you use the help action. (This may also depend on the ruling in #1 and #2). It seems that you can take the help action to give advantage, even if no ally creature is near you and even if the ally isn't near the creature that will be potentially attacked; this seems to be to the point that your ally creature doesn't even need to be on the same plane of existence, yet could come back from something like a banishment spell and still have the advantage. Just wanted to double check on this as well since the help action doesn't mention the distance of the ally(s) you are trying to help from you, and doesn't mention that you even need to be able to perceive them with your senses; such as an invisible ally as well.
Thanks ahead of time for any assistance!
To my understanding... it's correct that a Helper must be within five feet of a Target in order to perform the Help Action for attacking purposes.
Keep in mind that, despite the illogical contradictions this can create, every Turn in a Round occurs simultaneously... that's why a full Round is always 6 seconds, no matter how many Turns occur within that Round. So if a Helper is getting into a Target's face enough to count as the Help Action, despite the fact that the Helper then moves away, the Attacker is actually attacking simultaneously with the Help Action being performed.
It doesn't really make a lot of sense with movement and all, but that's just one of the many ways where D&D works as a Game but fails as a Simulation.
Help is performed for the benefit of a specific Attacker. That's the most literal way to read "A Friendly Creature", which implies a specific Friendly Creature. This is definitely one of those things that's been interpreted wildly differently by different DMs and even game designers, but I personally believe that when a creature performs the Help Action it is explicitly for the benefit of a specific Ally.
And yes... you can Help an Ally who is attacking using Ranged Weaponry... as long as they're able to make an attack before the start of your next turn they get to take that first attack with advantage. If the Ally is unable to make an attack (their weapon's range isn't high enough, they're out of ammo, etc.) then that's the only reason they wouldn't still get the benefits from the Help Action when Attacking.
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1) A lot of folks use the Owl in this way.
2) It has to be a specific person that you are helping, " you can aid a friendly creature". The "a" means you need to specify who you are helping. (Note the use of "your ally" later in the paragraph too.)
3) The helped friendly creature can use a ranged attack.
When you use the help action to assist in an ability check, you target the creature you are helping. When you use the help action to assist in combat, you target the creature you are using it against. Therefore, when you help in combat, the next attack gets advantage on the attack roll. Of all places, the D&D DM's screen lays it out in a bit clearer detail.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That makes since to me. The enemy creature is the target and must be within 5 feet of you when you take the action, but you can move away after taking the action. The next ally gets the advantage, regardless of how far they are from the targeted creature or if they were even on the same plane of existence.
I assume you could use the Ready action to prepare a Help action for a specific allied creature. So, "I ready the help action as an action to trigger as a reaction against enemy monster Z, once my named ally character A chooses to take the attack action to attack enemy monster Z."
Another question I have though is, what happens if you and your owl familiar use the help action on the same enemy monster? I assume this would be a waste, and instead the strategy would be to use the help action on two different monsters instead.
Thank you again for you help!
Unfortunately, the D&D DMs screen is not RAW. It is the interpretation by whoever wrote the content of the screen and the alternative meaning may have slipped in as they tried to reduce the number of words in the rule. It is possible it is RAI.
"HELP
You can lend your aid to another creature in the completion of a task. When you take the Help action, the creature you aid gains advantage on the next ability check it makes to perform the task you are helping with, provided that it makes the check before the start of your next turn.
Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally's attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
As written, you either aid another creature in completing a task OR you aid a friendly creature in making an attack (the rules specify that in both cases you HELP another creature and then goes on to describe what the nature of that help might be). No where in this rule does it state that the aid provided to an ally must be the next attack against the distracted creature.
In addition, as mentioned, all turns happen within the 6 second round. D&D isn't a simulation so simultaneity isn't really considered even though turns are resolved sequentially so, personally, I don't really see any issue with the help action assisting whichever other friendly creature the helper desires.
Anyway, DMs can choose to run it however they think best but the rules don't specify that the next attack is the one to which the help action applies and the wording of the help action rules itself is suggestive that the help action can be used to assist whichever friendly creature the creature taking the help action prefers.
I think your second question is a good reason why it may not be the next attack on a creature but rather an attack by a specific creature.
You could have a group of 6 with 3 taking the help action. Depending on the initiative order, only one of those help actions might be effective. On the other hand, if using the wording in the PHB, then 3 creatures could help 3 other specific creatures thus making all of the help actions effective.
Its a DM call on how they want to run it and I've seen both in use, but more often the specific creature version than the next attack version.
I've never seen the DM Screen, so my interpretation has been entirely based on the wording of the PHB, which is clear that you are helping a specific ally in combat.
So you could walk up to a creature take the HELP action and then walk away, with possibly taking an Opportunity Attack?
RAW, yes that is how it works.
Yep! This is why the Owl is such a popular choice for Familiar, because they have a feature that prevents them from being targeted by Opportunity Attacks, so they can repeatedly dive-bomb enemies, then fly back out of reach to continually give the Help Action.
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It is certainly an unconventional source.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I've been thinking about this, and (in combat) the idea that an owl can jump in, set the help action, then jump out, despite probably being the correct way to interpret the rule, creates a possible OP scenario potentially giving the familiar owner advantage on every attack. Is the idea that a player can have advantage on every attack a normal strategy? Or is it not keeping within the spirit of the game? I tend to lean towards the latter.
So, in a pure reading of the rules, the strategy of:
owl -move action- to within 5 feet of target, owl -help action-, owl -move action- leave combat with flyby, help action effect STAYS on target regardless of owl's location when the helpee's turn comes up IS THE VALID STRATEGY. The helpee now takes their action with advantage on the target and the owl is already out of the way beyond 5 feet.
The result of this is the owl familiar is an EXTREMELY powerful tool, and many players are aware of this. Here is the alternate reading of the rule (the one some think is not correct):
The owl must REMAIN in the 5ft range WHEN THE HELPEE'S TURN COMES. Thus the helpee can only get the advantage if the familiar IS STILL WITHIN 5FT OF THE TARGET WHEN IT IS THE HELPEE'S TURN. While this may not be correct to the rule as written, this probably aligns more to the spirit of play. Help is not a status that persists through turns. It is an action that only happens when you are 5ft from your target, and the moment you are out of 5ft, the action ends and the effect is gone. My personal belief is that this is probably a more honest interpretation of the idea and is also more challenging.
If your turn is after your familiar then you can take advantage. If the enemy can go after your familiar, it gives them a chance to attack the familiar before you get your advantage attack. It provides risk vs reward to the encounter that I think is more interesting and fun. Most advantages given to the player against a target should have some kind of risk involved that they accept. Following the rule as written just puts the DM in a meta game where they prioritize your familiar at every encounter. There is no in game explanation a mob would do this. It is the DM trying to mitigate against a very big threat against them.
My familiar is more than a "give me advantage in fights" bot. It has many uses. Once it is gone, it takes time and resources to bring it back. I don't want it killed in the first fight cause the DM knows what it can do. That's not organic play in my opinion.
Your familiar does not get a separate initiative than you, it shares yours.
So the familiar can go either just before you or just after to help someone else.
Since the rogue only gets one sneak attack a round no matter how many attacks he might actually get is the limiting factor.
The owl lets a rogue use his sneak attack at range without waiting for an ally to get within 5ft of the bad guy.
Are you sure about that?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Well I was wrong.
But after the first round no one goes first just before and after. And if the familiar is getting attacked he just proved his usefulness. He took the attack from a PC.
Forcing the owl to stay inside 5ft from the bad guy pretty much nurfs his only real use in combat. Though I do think any flying familiar should get the same maneuver of being able to disengage without suffering an automatic attack. Its not like the owls are the fastest fliers.
If your DM allows it the familiar can "ready" their help action and use in any initiative after its own that the owner wants. It does follow the orders of the caster.
Minor nitpick. Rogues can sneak attack once per turn.
The target is definitely an ally who gets to choose who they attack. It seems to make more sense with melee rather than ranged in my mind. It seems to me like the owl flies into range of the ally making the attack and flies away but does some evasive maneuvers in the meantime. The owl doesn’t need to hang out there, just as a rogue could jump in, do a little teamwork and leave.
5e plays in such a strange way to get these “easy” rules that don’t actually make sense.
HELP: "Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally’s attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."
The creature/character/familiar taking the help action allows advantage on the first attack by a specific ally against a creature within 5' of them when they take the help action. It is not a creature within 5' of an ally.
An owl can fly within 5' of the target, distract them, and fly away allowing the ally to make their FIRST attack against that target with advantage.
Works perfectly well with either ranged or melee attacks.
One important thing to keep in mind is that initiative is an artificial structure designed to make a combat round playable. The 6 second combat round represents all of the creatures involved in the combat doing things simultaneously. Each creature doesn't really stand around waiting for each other creature to take their turn. This is why the creature performing the help action can choose which ally they provide the benefit to - their assistance is timed to help that particular ally since the "initiative" order is essentially just a construct to make resolving each creature's actions feasible.
What about this situation:
-Creature A takes the help action to aid Creature B's imminent attack.
-Creature A is ahead of Creature B in the initiative order, and between Creature A and B's turns, Creature A is killed.
*Does Creature B still get advantage on its first attack roll? Its attack was "helped," but the helper is now dead.