So, the other day a specific scenario came up. I was playing a 3rd level sorcerer as alternate wild magic and on that table I rolled one outcome that said that all spells that takes an action to cast takes a bonus action for 1 minute. And with that, since a level 1 or higher spell was cast as an action to proc the wild magic surge and I wanted to cast a cantrip as a bonus action but wasn't allowed to.
So, my question is, why can you cast a level 1 or higher spell as a bonus action and a cantrip as an action but you apparently can't cast a level 1 or higher spell as an action and a cantrip as a bonus action?
Because on the turn that you cast a bonus action spell (no matter whether it is a cantrip or not) you may not cast a leveled spell with your action. If you have used your action to cast a leveled spell, you cannot cast a bonus action spell, no matter its level.
The restriction states that on a turn that you cast a bonus action spell, "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action." The restriction doesn't care the level of the bonus action spell. Only the action spell.
That rule is stupid and I've never seen any table play with it. But the logic behind is that Cantrips are "simpler" spells than higher level spells, so a Cantrip that takes 1 Action is actually faster than a Level X spell that takes 1 Action - and then once you cast anything as a Bonus Action, the only way your 6 second turn has enough time left to cast another spell is if it is a "faster" Cantrip spell. There's a reason so many tables (and video games...) ignore this rule, because it's pretty dumb
Putting in a limit so it is harder to cast two levelled spells on the same turn is good, casters are already powerful enough.
The fact that the wording of the rule allows for "Action -> Cantrip" and "BA -> levelled spell" but not the other way round is just what it is. It wouldn't be a big problem if a DM allowed it to work the other way round too but I'd suggest that you limit the usage of Metamagic on the levelled spell in that case.
I had always thought that this restriction was put into place so that sorcerers couldn’t cast two fireballs (or whatever leveled spell you want) via the quicken metamagic.
Action surge doesn’t prevent two leveled spells, but that requires a multiclass 2 level dip to get and MC is an optional rule. And reactions probably aren’t as powerful as most BA spells. Mainly defensive? Not sure, I haven’t gone through all the reaction spells.
I had always thought that this restriction was put into place so that sorcerers couldn’t cast two fireballs (or whatever leveled spell you want) via the quicken metamagic.
That is my understanding as well. It's not a dumb rule, and every table I've ever played at has used it.
I completely understand that using 2 leveled spells is a bit too powerful. But what I don't understand is why you cant use your action for a leveled spell and a bonus action for a cantrip when you can do so the other way around, a leveled spell as bonus action and cantrip as an action. The dumb thing I think about the rule is that a lot of people interpret it as you can only use a leveled spell as a bonus action and cantrip as action and not the other way around no matter if you actually have a cantrip you can cast as a bonus action. Other than that, not being able to cast more than 1 leveled spell outside of action surge I completely understand.
The rule is unchanged since 5e first came out, I would hazard a guess it is put the way it is to prevent "double casting" of leveled spells, but the designers didn't A.: Think there would be a bonus Action Cantrip And B.: Just didn't think of those few interactions wherer the whole process would a problem.
There are only two BA cantrips in the game: Shillelagh and Magic Stone. When you cast these, you are presumably going to use your action to attack with the magic quarterstaff/club or stone.
Regarding the Wild Magic table, this is clearly meant to be a detriment. Even if you could cast a BA cantrip followed by an Action spell, you couldn't during this minute as every spell you cast (outside of reaction spells) will have a BA casting time and you only have 1 BA per turn. So this is clearly meant to limit you to 1 spell per turn. It does have the added bonus that you can use your action for anything else (but what does a Sorcerer typically do except cast spells?).
The issue I had was that I wasn't allowed to use my BA for a cantrip after using the leveled spell to proc the wild magic surge causing my spells to become BA cast time spells. It would only have been one extra cantrip I would have gotten to cast. That's it. I just wanted to get some more perspectives on the matter. Personally if I'm dming and it comes up in any form, I would definitely allow a cantrip to be cast as a BA regardless of if you cast a leveled spell as an Action that turn since in my opinion it makes sense that you'd be allowed to if the spell/other effects lets you cast a cantrip as BA.
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So, the other day a specific scenario came up. I was playing a 3rd level sorcerer as alternate wild magic and on that table I rolled one outcome that said that all spells that takes an action to cast takes a bonus action for 1 minute. And with that, since a level 1 or higher spell was cast as an action to proc the wild magic surge and I wanted to cast a cantrip as a bonus action but wasn't allowed to.
So, my question is, why can you cast a level 1 or higher spell as a bonus action and a cantrip as an action but you apparently can't cast a level 1 or higher spell as an action and a cantrip as a bonus action?
Because on the turn that you cast a bonus action spell (no matter whether it is a cantrip or not) you may not cast a leveled spell with your action. If you have used your action to cast a leveled spell, you cannot cast a bonus action spell, no matter its level.
The restriction states that on a turn that you cast a bonus action spell, "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action." The restriction doesn't care the level of the bonus action spell. Only the action spell.
That rule is stupid and I've never seen any table play with it. But the logic behind is that Cantrips are "simpler" spells than higher level spells, so a Cantrip that takes 1 Action is actually faster than a Level X spell that takes 1 Action - and then once you cast anything as a Bonus Action, the only way your 6 second turn has enough time left to cast another spell is if it is a "faster" Cantrip spell. There's a reason so many tables (and video games...) ignore this rule, because it's pretty dumb
Putting in a limit so it is harder to cast two levelled spells on the same turn is good, casters are already powerful enough.
The fact that the wording of the rule allows for "Action -> Cantrip" and "BA -> levelled spell" but not the other way round is just what it is. It wouldn't be a big problem if a DM allowed it to work the other way round too but I'd suggest that you limit the usage of Metamagic on the levelled spell in that case.
I had always thought that this restriction was put into place so that sorcerers couldn’t cast two fireballs (or whatever leveled spell you want) via the quicken metamagic.
Action surge doesn’t prevent two leveled spells, but that requires a multiclass 2 level dip to get and MC is an optional rule. And reactions probably aren’t as powerful as most BA spells. Mainly defensive? Not sure, I haven’t gone through all the reaction spells.
That is my understanding as well. It's not a dumb rule, and every table I've ever played at has used it.
I completely understand that using 2 leveled spells is a bit too powerful. But what I don't understand is why you cant use your action for a leveled spell and a bonus action for a cantrip when you can do so the other way around, a leveled spell as bonus action and cantrip as an action. The dumb thing I think about the rule is that a lot of people interpret it as you can only use a leveled spell as a bonus action and cantrip as action and not the other way around no matter if you actually have a cantrip you can cast as a bonus action. Other than that, not being able to cast more than 1 leveled spell outside of action surge I completely understand.
The rule is unchanged since 5e first came out, I would hazard a guess it is put the way it is to prevent "double casting" of leveled spells, but the designers didn't A.: Think there would be a bonus Action Cantrip And B.: Just didn't think of those few interactions wherer the whole process would a problem.
There are only two BA cantrips in the game: Shillelagh and Magic Stone. When you cast these, you are presumably going to use your action to attack with the magic quarterstaff/club or stone.
Regarding the Wild Magic table, this is clearly meant to be a detriment. Even if you could cast a BA cantrip followed by an Action spell, you couldn't during this minute as every spell you cast (outside of reaction spells) will have a BA casting time and you only have 1 BA per turn. So this is clearly meant to limit you to 1 spell per turn. It does have the added bonus that you can use your action for anything else (but what does a Sorcerer typically do except cast spells?).
The issue I had was that I wasn't allowed to use my BA for a cantrip after using the leveled spell to proc the wild magic surge causing my spells to become BA cast time spells. It would only have been one extra cantrip I would have gotten to cast. That's it. I just wanted to get some more perspectives on the matter. Personally if I'm dming and it comes up in any form, I would definitely allow a cantrip to be cast as a BA regardless of if you cast a leveled spell as an Action that turn since in my opinion it makes sense that you'd be allowed to if the spell/other effects lets you cast a cantrip as BA.