Getting ready for Icewind Dale. Looks scary and fun!
My DM said he thinks sorcerers are the worse spell casting class, being more fond of wizards and clerics, so I thought it would be time to bring on the power of the sorlock, since no one in our party has made one before. That being said, after going through a couple guides, I do see how sorcerers are limited in their spell selection since they're stuck with what they have until they level up, unlike other spellcasters who have larger spell selection and can keep preparing and adapting more easily, so it looks like we have to be more selective as a sorcerer, which I need help with =/
Rolled my stats: 17, 17, 16, 13, 12, 9. Not bad if I do say so myself! =D
Don't know what my party make up is. Right now I'm thinking of being a blaster/healer. If someone decides to be a cleric and/or assist in the healing selection, I'll probably switch my spell selection, but until then, this is what I have in mind for levels 1-12.
Level 1: Sorcerer 1, Divine Soul: favored by the gods Cantrips: drow magic = dancing lights, guidance, minor illusion, prestidigitation, fire bolt (I hope fire damage is useful against these snow monsters) 1 spells: law = bless, healing word, mage armor
Favorite spells at each level? Of course, I will adjust my selection based on how the campaign is presenting itself, but please let me know if my ideas above seem fine, or if you have any other suggestions.
Some guides suggest going Sorcerer levels 1-5, then adding on the 3 levels of Warlock before resuming Sorcerer. However, i have a feeling that no armor is going to be bad in the snow, so I'm thinking of grabbing a quick warlock level for the armor and shield to boost AC. Or might you level up in a different manner? Sorcerer 1, Warlock 1-3, then Sorcerer the rest of the way?
I think you might be missing what makes sor/locks work so well.
-With just 2 levels in Lock you get eldrich blast (EB), hex, agonizing blast, (with hexblade's curse and the AC boost if you go hexblade) This gives you the full damage of a high level warlocks EB because cantrips scale with character level, not class level. EB+agonizing+hex+hexcurse
-It works with sorc for a few reasons Sorc gives you proficiency with con saves, so you can keep concentration spells up Sorc gives you more spell slots. Warlocks only get 2 until higher level and 1 of those is going to go to cast hex. Sorc allows you to quicken spells so you can double your EB damage, along with hex and hexcurse damage. Sroc points also allow you to convert your warlock slots into normal spell slots, this means depending on how your DM runs things you can stack extra spell slots if you go into a rest with lock slots remaining or dont need to long rest when you party does.
The 2 warlock levels are super important and if you wait to the 2nd you will be noticeably weaker. When you multiclass with lock you will not be getting higher level spell slots, so EB, hex, agonizing blast will be your your main damage. You will have plenty lower level slots which are terrible for damage spells but are great for casting hex, shield, hellish, healing from divine soul, utility spells.
The reason why people say go 5 sorc first is because the 3rd level spell slots super powerful. And by the time you hit 7th level instead of getting higher slots you get a fully powered EB.
So you have 2 options -5 sorc 2 lock, then what ever (which gets your ASI without a delay) -1 sorc (for con saves), 2 lock then sorc to 4 to get your ASI
Darkness/Devilsight This is kind of a cool flavor combo but it's not a great as you might think -Darkness is concentration, so no hex, so your main damage spell is going to trade damage for advantage -Darkness is only a 15ft radius so its really easy to just move out of. It's also casted on a point not an object so RAW it wont move once cast -Darkness also keeps your party from seeing or doing what they might want to do, and it can be really annoying for them -Magic light will counter the darkness, so things like magical fire spells like flaming sphere, that light cantrip on your human/halflings weapons, things like a paladins sacred weapon, you would also be amazed at how many casting monsters have the light cantrip in their spell. (A lot of this will depend on how your DM plays things)
A few other things: Booming and geenflame aren't needed, you aren't melee even though you are hexblade. Faerie fire is also concentration so no hex, but it can be really good to have for the team, and for stuff that is immune to necrotic making hex useless. Tome pact and book of ancient secrets, can be a great depending on your party. You will still be able to get find familiar, but you can also copy rituals into the book and this can allow your party to pick other useful stuff.
I would go Hexblade2, then full sorcerer. That way you get medium armor proficiency, an extra hitpoint and can start doing ehat you do best from start - eldritch blast.
as for darkness, the spell allows casting on an object and then move the object. Furthermore only higher level light spells stops it. Darkness for a warlock is like a cheap improved imvisibility - permanent advantage, and enemies always have disadvantage. This again make elves good warlocks because of the feat elven accuracy.
For other tricks, I would rely on eldrich blast for damage and use other spells for defense and utility/healing. Spells that come up often = awesome. Here is an example:
SORCERER SPELLS LV0 Light, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Fire Bolt, Message LV1 Absorb Elements, Healing Word LV2 Mirror Image (not concentration), Web DEX, Darkness LV3 Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Blink (not concentration) LV4 Banishment CHA, Confusion WIS LV5 Hold Monster WIS, Animate Objects (intense damage!)
What you get here is crazy damage (eldritch blast + animate objects), control targeting 3 different saves, anti-magic package and defensive package that can work at once (blink+mirror image+darkness+absorb elements at most)
In my opinion there really are just two healing spells worth having - healing word (midcombat) and maybe prayer of healing (out of combat). Any other mid-combat healing wont do enough to warrant not doing something else such as dealing damage or casting hold person.
I agree with starting with the hexblade dip and then moving into full sorcerer. Starting sorcerer 1 for the con save proficiency is really nice when you get to start at a slightly higher level (like sorc 1/lock 2), but a level one sorcerer (any of them) is just so much worse than a level 1 hexblade. I'm all about unlocking main abilities as quickly and cleanly as possible for the sake of enjoyable gameplay. Starting hexblade 2 does just that.
I think taking one of bb/greenflame is fine but not exciting. Having a melee option is nice to have even if you'll be avoiding it. I wouldn't take both, and I'd be looking for good utility cantrips instead.
I'm personally a much bigger fan of the third level of warlock than most seem to be. It's mostly a flavor thing for me as I don't like the idea of a warlock kind of just skipping out on sealing their pact. I fully understand the cost of putting off more sorcerer spell levels, but there are some really nice mechanical benefits. Bumping up your pact magic to 2nd level slots makes them much more efficient at charging your sorcery points. There are also some second level spells that don't care about scaling that are nice to have more readily accessible. Darkness is one, but Mirror Image is my favorite. And then you have the pacts and pact specific invocations that can come into play.
Specifically, I think Pact of the Chain brings something really cool to the sorlock with ToCE in the mix. Investment of the Chainmaster finally allows the warlock to get aggressive with their familiar. Sorcerer provides twinned haste, targeting you and the familiar. You can trade the attack granted by haste for a reaction attack from the familiar and also have it attack with your bonus action. It then also has its own attack action because of the haste. On the turn you cast haste you can have your familiar attack three times. Afterwards you are left with an EB + 3x Familiar Attack routine for as long as you keep that twinned haste up, and can replace EB with a different spell as appropriate. Imp is the best option for this (surprise, surprise), so a lot of the damage is poison. Even with that weakness I really like what this synergy has to offer. Also, you don't have to target the imp with the other half of the twinned haste. Targeting the barbarian/paladin/etc. is going to produce more damage generally. I just like that the Chain sorlock has a self-contained target for twinned haste.
Getting ready for Icewind Dale. Looks scary and fun!
My DM said he thinks sorcerers are the worse spell casting class, being more fond of wizards and clerics, so I thought it would be time to bring on the power of the sorlock, since no one in our party has made one before. That being said, after going through a couple guides, I do see how sorcerers are limited in their spell selection since they're stuck with what they have until they level up, unlike other spellcasters who have larger spell selection and can keep preparing and adapting more easily, so it looks like we have to be more selective as a sorcerer, which I need help with =/
Rolled my stats: 17, 17, 16, 13, 12, 9. Not bad if I do say so myself! =D
Race: Half Elf, variant Dark Elf Drow heritage
Class: Sorcerer: Persuasion, deception
Background: Acolyte: Insight, Religion
Str: 9
Dex: 16
Con: 17+1=18
Int: 12
Wis: 13+1=14
Cha: 17+2=19
Don't know what my party make up is. Right now I'm thinking of being a blaster/healer. If someone decides to be a cleric and/or assist in the healing selection, I'll probably switch my spell selection, but until then, this is what I have in mind for levels 1-12.
Level 1: Sorcerer 1, Divine Soul: favored by the gods
Cantrips: drow magic = dancing lights, guidance, minor illusion, prestidigitation, fire bolt (I hope fire damage is useful against these snow monsters)
1 spells: law = bless, healing word, mage armor
Level 2: Warlock 1, Hexblade: curse, hex warrior (medium armor, shield)
Cantrips: eldritch blast, mage hand/booming blade/green flame blade etc.
1 spells: hex, shield
Level 3: Sorcerer 2
1 spells: Change mage armor>shield of faith, absorb elements, drow magic: faerie fire
Level 4: Sorcerer 3, metamagic: quickened, twinned
2 spells: Change bless>spiritual weapon, aid
Level 5: Sorcerer 4, eleven accuracy +1 charisma = 20 (+5)
2 spells: mirror image, drow magic: darkness
Level 6: Sorcerer 5, level 3 spells
Cantrip: mage hand/booming blade/green flame blade etc.
3 spells: Change shield of faith>revify, fireball
Level 7: Warlock 2
Eldritch invocations: agonizing blast, devil's sight
1 spell: protection from evil and good
Level 8: Warlock 3:
Pact of the chain: find familiar, Imp
2 spell: Darkness
Level 9: Sorcerer 6, empowered healing
3 spell: Counterspell
Level 10: Sorcerer 7
4 spell: Polymorph
Level 11: Sorcerer 8, warcaster
4 spell: Greater invisibility
Level 12: Sorcerer 9
5 spell: Change absorb elements>Hold monster, animate objects
Favorite spells at each level? Of course, I will adjust my selection based on how the campaign is presenting itself, but please let me know if my ideas above seem fine, or if you have any other suggestions.
Some guides suggest going Sorcerer levels 1-5, then adding on the 3 levels of Warlock before resuming Sorcerer. However, i have a feeling that no armor is going to be bad in the snow, so I'm thinking of grabbing a quick warlock level for the armor and shield to boost AC. Or might you level up in a different manner? Sorcerer 1, Warlock 1-3, then Sorcerer the rest of the way?
Thanks for any help, can't wait to play :)
I think you might be missing what makes sor/locks work so well.
-With just 2 levels in Lock you get eldrich blast (EB), hex, agonizing blast, (with hexblade's curse and the AC boost if you go hexblade)
This gives you the full damage of a high level warlocks EB because cantrips scale with character level, not class level.
EB+agonizing+hex+hexcurse
-It works with sorc for a few reasons
Sorc gives you proficiency with con saves, so you can keep concentration spells up
Sorc gives you more spell slots. Warlocks only get 2 until higher level and 1 of those is going to go to cast hex.
Sorc allows you to quicken spells so you can double your EB damage, along with hex and hexcurse damage.
Sroc points also allow you to convert your warlock slots into normal spell slots, this means depending on how your DM runs things you can stack extra spell slots if you go into a rest with lock slots remaining or dont need to long rest when you party does.
The 2 warlock levels are super important and if you wait to the 2nd you will be noticeably weaker. When you multiclass with lock you will not be getting higher level spell slots, so EB, hex, agonizing blast will be your your main damage. You will have plenty lower level slots which are terrible for damage spells but are great for casting hex, shield, hellish, healing from divine soul, utility spells.
The reason why people say go 5 sorc first is because the 3rd level spell slots super powerful. And by the time you hit 7th level instead of getting higher slots you get a fully powered EB.
So you have 2 options
-5 sorc 2 lock, then what ever (which gets your ASI without a delay)
-1 sorc (for con saves), 2 lock then sorc to 4 to get your ASI
Darkness/Devilsight
This is kind of a cool flavor combo but it's not a great as you might think
-Darkness is concentration, so no hex, so your main damage spell is going to trade damage for advantage
-Darkness is only a 15ft radius so its really easy to just move out of. It's also casted on a point not an object so RAW it wont move once cast
-Darkness also keeps your party from seeing or doing what they might want to do, and it can be really annoying for them
-Magic light will counter the darkness, so things like magical fire spells like flaming sphere, that light cantrip on your human/halflings weapons, things like a paladins sacred weapon, you would also be amazed at how many casting monsters have the light cantrip in their spell.
(A lot of this will depend on how your DM plays things)
A few other things:
Booming and geenflame aren't needed, you aren't melee even though you are hexblade.
Faerie fire is also concentration so no hex, but it can be really good to have for the team, and for stuff that is immune to necrotic making hex useless.
Tome pact and book of ancient secrets, can be a great depending on your party. You will still be able to get find familiar, but you can also copy rituals into the book and this can allow your party to pick other useful stuff.
I would go Hexblade2, then full sorcerer. That way you get medium armor proficiency, an extra hitpoint and can start doing ehat you do best from start - eldritch blast.
as for darkness, the spell allows casting on an object and then move the object. Furthermore only higher level light spells stops it. Darkness for a warlock is like a cheap improved imvisibility - permanent advantage, and enemies always have disadvantage. This again make elves good warlocks because of the feat elven accuracy.
For other tricks, I would rely on eldrich blast for damage and use other spells for defense and utility/healing. Spells that come up often = awesome. Here is an example:
WARLOCK SPELLS
LV0 Eldritch blast, Mage Hand
LV1 Shield, Hex, Expeditious Retreat
SORCERER SPELLS
LV0 Light, Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Fire Bolt, Message
LV1 Absorb Elements, Healing Word
LV2 Mirror Image (not concentration), Web DEX, Darkness
LV3 Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Blink (not concentration)
LV4 Banishment CHA, Confusion WIS
LV5 Hold Monster WIS, Animate Objects (intense damage!)
What you get here is crazy damage (eldritch blast + animate objects), control targeting 3 different saves, anti-magic package and defensive package that can work at once (blink+mirror image+darkness+absorb elements at most)
In my opinion there really are just two healing spells worth having - healing word (midcombat) and maybe prayer of healing (out of combat). Any other mid-combat healing wont do enough to warrant not doing something else such as dealing damage or casting hold person.
you can watch treantmonk's youtube video on the sorlock, he also used half-drow for race
I agree with starting with the hexblade dip and then moving into full sorcerer. Starting sorcerer 1 for the con save proficiency is really nice when you get to start at a slightly higher level (like sorc 1/lock 2), but a level one sorcerer (any of them) is just so much worse than a level 1 hexblade. I'm all about unlocking main abilities as quickly and cleanly as possible for the sake of enjoyable gameplay. Starting hexblade 2 does just that.
I think taking one of bb/greenflame is fine but not exciting. Having a melee option is nice to have even if you'll be avoiding it. I wouldn't take both, and I'd be looking for good utility cantrips instead.
I'm personally a much bigger fan of the third level of warlock than most seem to be. It's mostly a flavor thing for me as I don't like the idea of a warlock kind of just skipping out on sealing their pact. I fully understand the cost of putting off more sorcerer spell levels, but there are some really nice mechanical benefits. Bumping up your pact magic to 2nd level slots makes them much more efficient at charging your sorcery points. There are also some second level spells that don't care about scaling that are nice to have more readily accessible. Darkness is one, but Mirror Image is my favorite. And then you have the pacts and pact specific invocations that can come into play.
Specifically, I think Pact of the Chain brings something really cool to the sorlock with ToCE in the mix. Investment of the Chainmaster finally allows the warlock to get aggressive with their familiar. Sorcerer provides twinned haste, targeting you and the familiar. You can trade the attack granted by haste for a reaction attack from the familiar and also have it attack with your bonus action. It then also has its own attack action because of the haste. On the turn you cast haste you can have your familiar attack three times. Afterwards you are left with an EB + 3x Familiar Attack routine for as long as you keep that twinned haste up, and can replace EB with a different spell as appropriate. Imp is the best option for this (surprise, surprise), so a lot of the damage is poison. Even with that weakness I really like what this synergy has to offer. Also, you don't have to target the imp with the other half of the twinned haste. Targeting the barbarian/paladin/etc. is going to produce more damage generally. I just like that the Chain sorlock has a self-contained target for twinned haste.