I think cha 20 is probably the best mechanically, but it feels a little dull. It's currently winning just because I can't decide between the feats. Can anyone sell me on one of the feats, please?
Any of those feats could be worth it, depending. Which have you regretted most so far: your spells not hitting, having too few metamagic options, failing Dex saves, failing concentration checks, or having too few spells?
You could probably get away with taking a feat instead of an ASI. I generally take a feat for my sorcerer at Level 8 and haven't regretted it. Metamagic Adept has been worth it to me as it gives me more metamagic options. Sorcerers are proficient in CON saves so War Caster might not be all that useful. I've never taken the others so can't speak to them.
Yeah, thinking more on it, Sorcerers don't have as many features that depend on spellcasting modifier, compared to other spellcasting classes. So it IS easier to get away with taking a feat instead of an ASI. (Heck, my Wild-Magic Sorc is kinda avoiding a charisma increase, so that her Accidental Fireball doesn't get harder to save against!)
Edit: Is the Magic Initiate plan to take Sorcerer spells, or spells from a different class? Different class means you technically can't cast the 1st-level spell using spell slots, so it'd be just the one time per day.
Any of those feats could be worth it, depending. Which have you regretted most so far: your spells not hitting, having too few metamagic options, failing Dex saves, failing concentration checks, or having too few spells?
I've only played him for one session so far. Only just hit level 7, so I have some time to get used to him before I need to decide, but I do like to plan a level ahead in case there's any opportunity to roleplay the buildup to new abilities.
You could probably get away with taking a feat instead of an ASI. I generally take a feat for my sorcerer at Level 8 and haven't regretted it. Metamagic Adept has been worth it to me as it gives me more metamagic options. Sorcerers are proficient in CON saves so War Caster might not be all that useful. I've never taken the others so can't speak to them.
Yeah, thinking more on it, Sorcerers don't have as many features that depend on spellcasting modifier, compared to other spellcasting classes. So it IS easier to get away with taking a feat instead of an ASI. (Heck, my Wild-Magic Sorc is kinda avoiding a charisma increase, so that her Accidental Fireball doesn't get harder to save against!)
Edit: Is the Magic Initiate plan to take Sorcerer spells, or spells from a different class? Different class means you technically can't cast the 1st-level spell using spell slots, so it'd be just the one time per day.
OK makes sense, so ASI drops down the pecking order a bit, as does War Caster and Magic Initiate, as I was planning to take wizard spells -either find familiar or silvery barbs
So that leaves me with resilient dex (I have an odd dex) or metamagic adept -any thoughts?
That odd Dex makes Resilient Dex a strong contender. This thread made me decide to change my level-8 plan from 2 points DEX ASI to Resilient Dex for my wild-magic sorcerer, since that'll improve her Dex save more, and she could use it!
But if you're not in a subclass that can land a Fireball centered on you, it's not quite as important to have proficiency in Dex saves? Metamagic Adept is great for increasing your options of things to do as a Sorcerer, and lets you have a mix of both "must-have" metamagics and ones that would go well with your character idea.
I see pros and cons for each, depending on what you're trying to do.
Metamagic Adept - a fantastic option for Sorcerers. On any other class, it's severely limited because it only gives you two sorcery points, but since you already have a pool of them you can have more fun picking out your Metamagic options. I personally love Distant Spell and Subtle Spell for RP and mechanics, but pretty much any of them are viable because you have the extra two points to go with the ones you already have. It's a good way to pick up things you might not have tried, and hey, maybe you'll find some cool interactions you might not have otherwise. For example, with Subtle Spell your spells can't be counterspelled, and that includes counterspell itself if you ever pick it up.
Resilient - the dex boost would increase your survivability with the added proficiency and AC, but I'm not sure if that's the only option or even the best option to get some better defense. I can think of two other ways you might get better survivability.
If you find you're making more dex saves in combat than from the environment, a good compromise to consider might be taking Metamagic Adept as a feat and then choosing Absorb Elements as the spell you learn at this level. You'll probably never use the damage boost, but that's not why you want it. The majority of spell attacks that require dexterity saves are elemental based and halved damage on a save, so if you fail the saving throw you can spend a spell slot to basically turn the throw into a success. You can even pass the saving throw and further reduce the damage to one quarter.
With that in mind, another option instead of Resilient you might want to take a look at is the Lightly Armored feat. You'd still get the dexterity bump but more importantly access to Light Armor. Immediately put on Padded or Leather armor and your AC goes up to 13 (14 with Studded Leather). Combining that with Absorb Elements to mitigate mostly-elemental (at your level) dexterity saves would give you far more survivability than anything else you could do, I think.
You could probably get away with taking a feat instead of an ASI. I generally take a feat for my sorcerer at Level 8 and haven't regretted it. Metamagic Adept has been worth it to me as it gives me more metamagic options. Sorcerers are proficient in CON saves so War Caster might not be all that useful. I've never taken the others so can't speak to them.
Yeah, thinking more on it, Sorcerers don't have as many features that depend on spellcasting modifier, compared to other spellcasting classes. So it IS easier to get away with taking a feat instead of an ASI. (Heck, my Wild-Magic Sorc is kinda avoiding a charisma increase, so that her Accidental Fireball doesn't get harder to save against!)
Edit: Is the Magic Initiate plan to take Sorcerer spells, or spells from a different class? Different class means you technically can't cast the 1st-level spell using spell slots, so it'd be just the one time per day.
OK makes sense, so ASI drops down the pecking order a bit, as does War Caster and Magic Initiate, as I was planning to take wizard spells -either find familiar or silvery barbs
So that leaves me with resilient dex (I have an odd dex) or metamagic adept -any thoughts?
Cheers
Just now noticing you mentioned Find Familiar - that's a spell that won't hurt as much if limited to once a day, and a familiar is very handy and can be great for a character concept! But the other thing to keep in mind with Magic Initiate - Wizard is that the cantrips you learn will use your Intelligence and not your Charisma. So you'd want to choose cantrips that don't depend on spellcasting ability, and/or "shift" existing cantrips to the feat pair. Most utility cantrips fit in that category, but note that Minor Illusion uses spellcasting ability for the DC to see through the illusion.
I'll also second EurobeatJester's suggestion of having Absorb Elements for the most dangerous Dex-save situations. It's a very important spell for my wild-magic sorcerer (being both the cause of and solution to the Inciting Incident in her backstory...)
I'd say my opinion right now is the most fun choices would be Metamagic Adept, or getting a familiar with Magic Initiate - Wizard.
In terms of mechanics and power I think you are right 20 charisma is better than any of these I think.
Metamagic Adept - This is solid. Gives you some more options.
Resilient Dex - Also solid, especially if you face a lot of people throwing AOEs with a dex save. As boring as +2 charisma though
Warcaster - With your constiution I would not get warcaster. That would be overkill unless you plan to melee and use the AOOs.
Magic Initiate - What spells are you considering with MI? I find MI is generally better on non-casters or casters with bad spell lists (which basically means not wizards and not sorcerers). You can only use the spell you get once a day so it is mostly in the cantrips.
A couple more options:
1. Half feat with spells (Fey touched, shadow touched telepathich) - these are all awesome give you another spell or spells with a free cast and can be used with your slots. Also set you up for either taking another one at level 12 to get to 20 charisma or alternatively +1 Dex, +1 Cha to boost both scores.
2. Gift of the Gem Dragon - Again a +1 Charisma setting up for level 12 plus an awesome reaction that can free you from grapples and the like. Might conflict with shield a bit.
3. Skill expert +1 dex - boosts your dex but gives you a new skill and an expertise instead of the save.
4. Gift of the Chromatic Dragon - equivalent to PB times a day absorb elements and can use a bonus to boost an allys weapon damage.
My personal thoughts are that Metamagic Adept is a good idea, since it's on your list. Your spell save and to-hit should still be ok for now, then you can bump Cha at 12. Adding another pair of options for how you can tweak your spells, I personally feel, will get you a lot more mileage than one new spell, honestly. My biggest grief with Sorcerer is the lack of spells they get, so my personal choice is usually to multi into Bard or Warlock to grab a couple more options for spells. The core reason I look to Sorcerer is the Metamagic, because to me, it's the only thing that keeps them from being a half-assed Wizard.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
If you are the only Arcane caster then you may also want to think about Ritual Caster. It would let you get your Find familiar if you pick wiz but also let you get "more" spell in a day that you would not want to pick as a Soc. Also I am be wrong but I think almost all if not all Ritual spell will not care that you are only a 10 int.
If you are the only Arcane caster then you may also want to think about Ritual Caster. It would let you get your Find familiar if you pick wiz but also let you get "more" spell in a day that you would not want to pick as a Soc. Also I am be wrong but I think almost all if not all Ritual spell will not care that you are only a 10 int.
I believe ritual caster has a prerequisite of 13 in either Wisdom or Intelligence and this character has niether.
If you are the only Arcane caster then you may also want to think about Ritual Caster. It would let you get your Find familiar if you pick wiz but also let you get "more" spell in a day that you would not want to pick as a Soc. Also I am be wrong but I think almost all if not all Ritual spell will not care that you are only a 10 int.
I believe ritual caster has a prerequisite of 13 in either Wisdom or Intelligence and this character has niether.
You are right. I though it was Int, wis or chr sorry for the bad advise.
Maxing Cha is probably your best option. The +hit/dc is a pretty big deal with the whole bounded accuracy thing and you will start to feel it if you don't take it. You also get a bump to your empowered spell. IDK about you but one of the best things about sorc is turning a terrible damage roll on an AoE into a something that drops a nuc on the fight.
meta magic adept isn't bad but you have 2 most powerful options by far already the more levels you have the less impactful the extra points feel. dex saves aren't terrible a bad idea and it will give you +1 ac. War caster is almost only going to be good for saves and you already get prof bonus added Magic init can get you a familiar, but how useful are cantrips going to be for you when you already have your top 6th?
I took Metamagic Adept at 12th-level on my current Sorcerer and haven't regretted it; two extra sorcery points is still good even at a higher level, but two additional metamagics gives you so much more versatility. My main criticism of Metamagic Adept is that I think Sorcerers should have more metamagic choices as standard, the feat shouldn't be required.
However, for as long as it is (and beyond) it's a good choice as it lets you actually take those metamagics you wanted to take but didn't because you weren't sure you'd use them enough.
For example, Distant Spell isn't one that's likely to come up a lot in most campaigns, but when you can fight something at long enough range that it matters then it can completely change the balance of power in a fight; I used it in a Curse of Strahd campaign to just straight up nuke some vampires on giant bats into oblivion using vitriolic sphere before we were even in danger of them firing back, most were (properly) dead before they even got to us, the party took literally zero damage in return (and I actually got to use my blast spell for a change, as normally there is always someone in the way). Metamagics like Seeking and Twinned Spell are likewise ones that you may or may not use a lot, but they're great to have when you do miss with a costly spell, or have two targets you'd like to hit at once (and it's not going to be too costly, I mostly used Twinned Spell with lower level spells as higher level ones cost too many points, but you'll occasionally get an opportunity that's just too good to pass up).
Of your other options:
Getting CHA 20 is fine, but on my Sorcerer I've been getting by quite happily on +3, I'd almost always rather have more options rather than the extra +1 or +2 (which is only an extra 5% or 10% chance to hit, or for an enemy to fail a save). This may depend upon how much you use your Charisma for other things though, e.g- if you use social skill checks (I see you have Persuasion, I'm partial to be a bit of Intimidation myself… 😈). If you're likely to get magic items then you'll want to be leaning your DM towards letting you get a bloodwell vial or similar casting focus, which will compensate for a slightly less than maximum Charisma anyway.
Resilient (Dexterity) I can see for rounding out your Dexterity score (which feeds into your AC), and the proficiency won't go amiss for any Dexterity saves you make, but as a ranged blaster you may not need them enough (you'll know better than I do for your campaign though).
War Caster I'm not sure about; I'd recommend it more for melee oriented caster builds, especially ones that can take a shield.
I wouldn't bother with Magic Initiate; the best version of it to take on a Sorcerer IMO is Warlock, but you'd get so much more out of multiclassing 1-3 levels in Warlock if you want to go that route, without sacrificing much from Sorcerer as most of our 18+ level features aren't amazing (Umbral Form on Shadow Magic Sorcerer is fine if you even get to that level).
So yeah, my recommendation is Metamagic Adept, but please keep in mind that I am 100% biased.
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Metamagic Adept is one of my favourites, I recently took it on my human variant sorcerer as the free feat. 2 extra metamagic options and an additional 2 sorcerery points to use on metamagic is amazing and really adds to the classes's core features. Having 4 metamagic options at the early levels really adds to your options and versatility.
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The character:
https://ddb.ac/characters/62369812/GyEEjm
I am torn between:
-Bumping CHA to 20
-Metamagic Adept
-Resilient Dex
-War Caster
-Magic Initiate
I think cha 20 is probably the best mechanically, but it feels a little dull. It's currently winning just because I can't decide between the feats. Can anyone sell me on one of the feats, please?
Any of those feats could be worth it, depending. Which have you regretted most so far: your spells not hitting, having too few metamagic options, failing Dex saves, failing concentration checks, or having too few spells?
You could probably get away with taking a feat instead of an ASI. I generally take a feat for my sorcerer at Level 8 and haven't regretted it. Metamagic Adept has been worth it to me as it gives me more metamagic options. Sorcerers are proficient in CON saves so War Caster might not be all that useful. I've never taken the others so can't speak to them.
Yeah, thinking more on it, Sorcerers don't have as many features that depend on spellcasting modifier, compared to other spellcasting classes. So it IS easier to get away with taking a feat instead of an ASI. (Heck, my Wild-Magic Sorc is kinda avoiding a charisma increase, so that her Accidental Fireball doesn't get harder to save against!)
Edit: Is the Magic Initiate plan to take Sorcerer spells, or spells from a different class? Different class means you technically can't cast the 1st-level spell using spell slots, so it'd be just the one time per day.
I've only played him for one session so far. Only just hit level 7, so I have some time to get used to him before I need to decide, but I do like to plan a level ahead in case there's any opportunity to roleplay the buildup to new abilities.
OK makes sense, so ASI drops down the pecking order a bit, as does War Caster and Magic Initiate, as I was planning to take wizard spells -either find familiar or silvery barbs
So that leaves me with resilient dex (I have an odd dex) or metamagic adept -any thoughts?
Cheers
That odd Dex makes Resilient Dex a strong contender. This thread made me decide to change my level-8 plan from 2 points DEX ASI to Resilient Dex for my wild-magic sorcerer, since that'll improve her Dex save more, and she could use it!
But if you're not in a subclass that can land a Fireball centered on you, it's not quite as important to have proficiency in Dex saves? Metamagic Adept is great for increasing your options of things to do as a Sorcerer, and lets you have a mix of both "must-have" metamagics and ones that would go well with your character idea.
I see pros and cons for each, depending on what you're trying to do.
Metamagic Adept - a fantastic option for Sorcerers. On any other class, it's severely limited because it only gives you two sorcery points, but since you already have a pool of them you can have more fun picking out your Metamagic options. I personally love Distant Spell and Subtle Spell for RP and mechanics, but pretty much any of them are viable because you have the extra two points to go with the ones you already have. It's a good way to pick up things you might not have tried, and hey, maybe you'll find some cool interactions you might not have otherwise. For example, with Subtle Spell your spells can't be counterspelled, and that includes counterspell itself if you ever pick it up.
Resilient - the dex boost would increase your survivability with the added proficiency and AC, but I'm not sure if that's the only option or even the best option to get some better defense. I can think of two other ways you might get better survivability.
If you find you're making more dex saves in combat than from the environment, a good compromise to consider might be taking Metamagic Adept as a feat and then choosing Absorb Elements as the spell you learn at this level. You'll probably never use the damage boost, but that's not why you want it. The majority of spell attacks that require dexterity saves are elemental based and halved damage on a save, so if you fail the saving throw you can spend a spell slot to basically turn the throw into a success. You can even pass the saving throw and further reduce the damage to one quarter.
With that in mind, another option instead of Resilient you might want to take a look at is the Lightly Armored feat. You'd still get the dexterity bump but more importantly access to Light Armor. Immediately put on Padded or Leather armor and your AC goes up to 13 (14 with Studded Leather). Combining that with Absorb Elements to mitigate mostly-elemental (at your level) dexterity saves would give you far more survivability than anything else you could do, I think.
Just now noticing you mentioned Find Familiar - that's a spell that won't hurt as much if limited to once a day, and a familiar is very handy and can be great for a character concept! But the other thing to keep in mind with Magic Initiate - Wizard is that the cantrips you learn will use your Intelligence and not your Charisma. So you'd want to choose cantrips that don't depend on spellcasting ability, and/or "shift" existing cantrips to the feat pair. Most utility cantrips fit in that category, but note that Minor Illusion uses spellcasting ability for the DC to see through the illusion.
I'll also second EurobeatJester's suggestion of having Absorb Elements for the most dangerous Dex-save situations. It's a very important spell for my wild-magic sorcerer (being both the cause of and solution to the Inciting Incident in her backstory...)
I'd say my opinion right now is the most fun choices would be Metamagic Adept, or getting a familiar with Magic Initiate - Wizard.
In terms of mechanics and power I think you are right 20 charisma is better than any of these I think.
Metamagic Adept - This is solid. Gives you some more options.
Resilient Dex - Also solid, especially if you face a lot of people throwing AOEs with a dex save. As boring as +2 charisma though
Warcaster - With your constiution I would not get warcaster. That would be overkill unless you plan to melee and use the AOOs.
Magic Initiate - What spells are you considering with MI? I find MI is generally better on non-casters or casters with bad spell lists (which basically means not wizards and not sorcerers). You can only use the spell you get once a day so it is mostly in the cantrips.
A couple more options:
1. Half feat with spells (Fey touched, shadow touched telepathich) - these are all awesome give you another spell or spells with a free cast and can be used with your slots. Also set you up for either taking another one at level 12 to get to 20 charisma or alternatively +1 Dex, +1 Cha to boost both scores.
2. Gift of the Gem Dragon - Again a +1 Charisma setting up for level 12 plus an awesome reaction that can free you from grapples and the like. Might conflict with shield a bit.
3. Skill expert +1 dex - boosts your dex but gives you a new skill and an expertise instead of the save.
4. Gift of the Chromatic Dragon - equivalent to PB times a day absorb elements and can use a bonus to boost an allys weapon damage.
5. Lucky
My personal thoughts are that Metamagic Adept is a good idea, since it's on your list. Your spell save and to-hit should still be ok for now, then you can bump Cha at 12. Adding another pair of options for how you can tweak your spells, I personally feel, will get you a lot more mileage than one new spell, honestly. My biggest grief with Sorcerer is the lack of spells they get, so my personal choice is usually to multi into Bard or Warlock to grab a couple more options for spells. The core reason I look to Sorcerer is the Metamagic, because to me, it's the only thing that keeps them from being a half-assed Wizard.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
By the way, it looks like Silvery Barbs is already on the Sorcerer list? So you wouldn't need Magic Initiate - Wizard in order to access it.
If you are the only Arcane caster then you may also want to think about Ritual Caster. It would let you get your Find familiar if you pick wiz but also let you get "more" spell in a day that you would not want to pick as a Soc. Also I am be wrong but I think almost all if not all Ritual spell will not care that you are only a 10 int.
I spell Goodly.
I believe ritual caster has a prerequisite of 13 in either Wisdom or Intelligence and this character has niether.
You are right. I though it was Int, wis or chr sorry for the bad advise.
I spell Goodly.
Maxing Cha is probably your best option. The +hit/dc is a pretty big deal with the whole bounded accuracy thing and you will start to feel it if you don't take it. You also get a bump to your empowered spell. IDK about you but one of the best things about sorc is turning a terrible damage roll on an AoE into a something that drops a nuc on the fight.
meta magic adept isn't bad but you have 2 most powerful options by far already the more levels you have the less impactful the extra points feel.
dex saves aren't terrible a bad idea and it will give you +1 ac.
War caster is almost only going to be good for saves and you already get prof bonus added
Magic init can get you a familiar, but how useful are cantrips going to be for you when you already have your top 6th?
I took Metamagic Adept at 12th-level on my current Sorcerer and haven't regretted it; two extra sorcery points is still good even at a higher level, but two additional metamagics gives you so much more versatility. My main criticism of Metamagic Adept is that I think Sorcerers should have more metamagic choices as standard, the feat shouldn't be required.
However, for as long as it is (and beyond) it's a good choice as it lets you actually take those metamagics you wanted to take but didn't because you weren't sure you'd use them enough.
For example, Distant Spell isn't one that's likely to come up a lot in most campaigns, but when you can fight something at long enough range that it matters then it can completely change the balance of power in a fight; I used it in a Curse of Strahd campaign to just straight up nuke some vampires on giant bats into oblivion using vitriolic sphere before we were even in danger of them firing back, most were (properly) dead before they even got to us, the party took literally zero damage in return (and I actually got to use my blast spell for a change, as normally there is always someone in the way). Metamagics like Seeking and Twinned Spell are likewise ones that you may or may not use a lot, but they're great to have when you do miss with a costly spell, or have two targets you'd like to hit at once (and it's not going to be too costly, I mostly used Twinned Spell with lower level spells as higher level ones cost too many points, but you'll occasionally get an opportunity that's just too good to pass up).
Of your other options:
So yeah, my recommendation is Metamagic Adept, but please keep in mind that I am 100% biased.
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Metamagic Adept is one of my favourites, I recently took it on my human variant sorcerer as the free feat. 2 extra metamagic options and an additional 2 sorcerery points to use on metamagic is amazing and really adds to the classes's core features. Having 4 metamagic options at the early levels really adds to your options and versatility.