It seems like most lore that people create for let’s say there homebrew things or characters just isn’t well made anymore. I have added a poll to it so you guys can decide for yourselves.
I think this is a case of rose-tinted glasses, aka “Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be”. Since you specified homebrew lore, there is if anything more creativity on that front than ever before in D&D’s history, owing to the sheer number of active tables if nothing else.
If this were about WotC’s recent lore, (or disturbingly often, lack thereof), you may have a point, but that isn’t what you asked.
People's homebrew lore is, on the whole, awful. And always has been. (The exception is mine. Mine is brilliant.)
But, thanks to the wonders of the internet, you're seeing way more of people's homebrew lore than you used to.
Creative writing is hard. People who are great at it tend to become authors, rather than RPG writers.
To be honest, most of the TSR/WotC-generated lore ain't all that great, either. It's overall higher-quality, because there are actual editorial standards, but it still isn't anything special. Even when you get something good and creative, such as (fill in your favorite setting here), other people working in the same sandbox are unlikely to match the initial quality.
Edit: But also, lore is vastly overrated in value. Lore ends up mostly irrelevant in actual play. It's an occasional source of ideas, but the real-time interactions and inventions at the table are what matters.
My home-brew lore is good, but I am biased and not even close to being an author- so keeping in perspective the minds behind the home-brew yes it is good, just needs collaboration and innovation. Good ideas can become great with a little help.
When I read the title of the this thread, I thought you were talking about official lore put out by WotC. But to be broadly critical of homebrew lore under the umbrella of "modern lore" seems bizarre. How are you judging "better"? And more importantly, who are you—or any of us—to judge? The lore used at a table for a homebrew campaign is perfect as long as the table enjoys it. Let's not act like there was some halcyon day of lore of old to rival Tolkien, Lewis, and Howard; there were plenty of AD&D campaigns with the lore depth of a puddle and the narrative complexity of a Saturday morning campaign.
Quote from Davyd>> Let's not act like there was some halcyon day of lore of old to rival Tolkien, Lewis, and Howard; there were plenty of AD&D campaigns with the lore depth of a puddle and the narrative complexity of a Saturday morning campaign.
I've spent the last ten years building out my homebrew campaign world. Who the absolute heck are you to say it's not good enough? Honestly, what kind of post even is this?
I'll say this: Most of what we enthusiastic amateurs write is ... well, just about what you'd expect from enthusiastic amateurs. By which I mean fairly bad. Workable, for sure (mostly), but hardly the heights of literary genius.
However, and I find this to be important, I've been playing for close to 40 years, and the stuff I wrote back when I was 15 was utter junk compared to what I write today. For me, personally, it's much better than it was.
Back in the days, I used to think dragons were cool. Can you imagine? =)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I personally feel a lot of recent "lore" is too tentative about maybe offending someone. For lore of fantasy species and such, do what YOU want to do with them. Elves who are pure evil and hate all other species? Sure, why not? Dwarves who live in the forest and are the natural protectors of nature, sure, go for it! Dark Elves who are evil, as they were initially presented, fine, go ahead.
I think the biggest thing people miss when creating lore is details of WHY it is what it is. A species or race that has a hatred, or love for something, but no articulated reasons why feels weak to me. Present a purely evil culture without offering a story as to why they are like that is where a lot of lore fails and ends up being classed as racist or "phobic" in some fashion. To me, any lore that could be considered "good lore" would allow someone to swap the race/species with any other and still work. Gnomes with an unreasonable hatred for say, Dwarves, because centuries ago, Dwarves tried to eliminate them and failed. Now swap those species with any other and it can fit. Enhance it maybe, by saying the Dwarves wanted to eliminate the Gnomes to become the premiere "small" humanoids of the realm, opens the door for more conflict with any other small species, Halflings, Goblins and such, even Fairies if you want.
I agree there seems to be a lot today that is just "Species X is evil and will attack any Species Y they encounter" and nothing more. Creating strong lore is, as some have pointed out, a fair bit of work and requires a level of creativity many people lack. As for official lore, I would prefer to see a lot more realm specific lore, with detailed reasoning. Better still, conflicting lore from realm to realm helps eliminate the complaints about racist, or phobic lore. Dark Elves/Drow are pure evil in one realm, due to demon blood in their past, while in the next realm, they are pure good, as they strive to help make peace whenever possible, due to a long history of being persecuted, so they have adopted a way to eliminate that instead on embracing it.
Then again, maybe I am just babbling......
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Stepping in a bit here to nudge this conversation away from going down a specific line of getting caught up in defensiveness and derailing into a heated discussion.
Some things that should be stated to be clear to avoid going down that lane:
Species shouldn't be monolithic. Cultures can be mixed species, species can be spread across different regions and have different histories.
Morality is not biological. No species that has free will is born 'X' alignment.
Some things to consider for folk homebrewing their own games as well is that the majority of us aren't going to be professional writers, with a whole team to help create content with the intent of publishing it for a greater audience. The majority of wordbuilders and homebrewers will be doing this by themselves for their own tables. So you don't actually need to have a fully fleshed out and amazing lore, with depth for every place. You need just what will entertain your table and make your game flow. And even if you get things wrong, you'd hope your table gives you enough grace to give you feedback and work with you through it. Big difference messing up in front of friends instead of for paying customers.
So one thing to ask for this thread is what is the goal?
Giving tips for general users for how to worldbuild? The goal of homebrew lore for games? Common issues in homebrew lore?
I have written professionally for decades now, across a wide variety of genres and for various media. I have been told I am pretty good. That is why I say to anyone who takes the time and puts in the effort, "Bravo!". Are you having fun? That's all that matters. And for a quick tip, only create the backstory or lore necessary for your current adventure, unless you are getting paid by the word for an entire mythical world history. Fleshing out the milieu as needed helps give a fresh perspective, and amazing flexibility as your players move through your creation. High Rolls to All- J
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It seems like most lore that people create for let’s say there homebrew things or characters just isn’t well made anymore. I have added a poll to it so you guys can decide for yourselves.
Oiia
I think this is a case of rose-tinted glasses, aka “Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be”. Since you specified homebrew lore, there is if anything more creativity on that front than ever before in D&D’s history, owing to the sheer number of active tables if nothing else.
If this were about WotC’s recent lore, (or disturbingly often, lack thereof), you may have a point, but that isn’t what you asked.
People's homebrew lore is, on the whole, awful. And always has been. (The exception is mine. Mine is brilliant.)
But, thanks to the wonders of the internet, you're seeing way more of people's homebrew lore than you used to.
Creative writing is hard. People who are great at it tend to become authors, rather than RPG writers.
To be honest, most of the TSR/WotC-generated lore ain't all that great, either. It's overall higher-quality, because there are actual editorial standards, but it still isn't anything special. Even when you get something good and creative, such as (fill in your favorite setting here), other people working in the same sandbox are unlikely to match the initial quality.
Edit: But also, lore is vastly overrated in value. Lore ends up mostly irrelevant in actual play. It's an occasional source of ideas, but the real-time interactions and inventions at the table are what matters.
My home-brew lore is good, but I am biased and not even close to being an author- so keeping in perspective the minds behind the home-brew yes it is good, just needs collaboration and innovation. Good ideas can become great with a little help.
Ever wonder what it would be like to be a bear?
When I read the title of the this thread, I thought you were talking about official lore put out by WotC. But to be broadly critical of homebrew lore under the umbrella of "modern lore" seems bizarre. How are you judging "better"? And more importantly, who are you—or any of us—to judge? The lore used at a table for a homebrew campaign is perfect as long as the table enjoys it. Let's not act like there was some halcyon day of lore of old to rival Tolkien, Lewis, and Howard; there were plenty of AD&D campaigns with the lore depth of a puddle and the narrative complexity of a Saturday morning campaign.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
And that's, for the must part, good
I've spent the last ten years building out my homebrew campaign world. Who the absolute heck are you to say it's not good enough? Honestly, what kind of post even is this?
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
I'll say this: Most of what we enthusiastic amateurs write is ... well, just about what you'd expect from enthusiastic amateurs. By which I mean fairly bad. Workable, for sure (mostly), but hardly the heights of literary genius.
However, and I find this to be important, I've been playing for close to 40 years, and the stuff I wrote back when I was 15 was utter junk compared to what I write today. For me, personally, it's much better than it was.
Back in the days, I used to think dragons were cool. Can you imagine? =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I personally feel a lot of recent "lore" is too tentative about maybe offending someone. For lore of fantasy species and such, do what YOU want to do with them. Elves who are pure evil and hate all other species? Sure, why not? Dwarves who live in the forest and are the natural protectors of nature, sure, go for it! Dark Elves who are evil, as they were initially presented, fine, go ahead.
I think the biggest thing people miss when creating lore is details of WHY it is what it is. A species or race that has a hatred, or love for something, but no articulated reasons why feels weak to me. Present a purely evil culture without offering a story as to why they are like that is where a lot of lore fails and ends up being classed as racist or "phobic" in some fashion. To me, any lore that could be considered "good lore" would allow someone to swap the race/species with any other and still work. Gnomes with an unreasonable hatred for say, Dwarves, because centuries ago, Dwarves tried to eliminate them and failed. Now swap those species with any other and it can fit. Enhance it maybe, by saying the Dwarves wanted to eliminate the Gnomes to become the premiere "small" humanoids of the realm, opens the door for more conflict with any other small species, Halflings, Goblins and such, even Fairies if you want.
I agree there seems to be a lot today that is just "Species X is evil and will attack any Species Y they encounter" and nothing more. Creating strong lore is, as some have pointed out, a fair bit of work and requires a level of creativity many people lack. As for official lore, I would prefer to see a lot more realm specific lore, with detailed reasoning. Better still, conflicting lore from realm to realm helps eliminate the complaints about racist, or phobic lore. Dark Elves/Drow are pure evil in one realm, due to demon blood in their past, while in the next realm, they are pure good, as they strive to help make peace whenever possible, due to a long history of being persecuted, so they have adopted a way to eliminate that instead on embracing it.
Then again, maybe I am just babbling......
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
ModeratorStepping in a bit here to nudge this conversation away from going down a specific line of getting caught up in defensiveness and derailing into a heated discussion.
Some things that should be stated to be clear to avoid going down that lane:
Some things to consider for folk homebrewing their own games as well is that the majority of us aren't going to be professional writers, with a whole team to help create content with the intent of publishing it for a greater audience. The majority of wordbuilders and homebrewers will be doing this by themselves for their own tables. So you don't actually need to have a fully fleshed out and amazing lore, with depth for every place. You need just what will entertain your table and make your game flow. And even if you get things wrong, you'd hope your table gives you enough grace to give you feedback and work with you through it. Big difference messing up in front of friends instead of for paying customers.
So one thing to ask for this thread is what is the goal?
Giving tips for general users for how to worldbuild?
The goal of homebrew lore for games?
Common issues in homebrew lore?
D&D Beyond ToS || D&D Beyond Support
I have written professionally for decades now, across a wide variety of genres and for various media. I have been told I am pretty good. That is why I say to anyone who takes the time and puts in the effort, "Bravo!". Are you having fun? That's all that matters. And for a quick tip, only create the backstory or lore necessary for your current adventure, unless you are getting paid by the word for an entire mythical world history. Fleshing out the milieu as needed helps give a fresh perspective, and amazing flexibility as your players move through your creation. High Rolls to All- J