Its just a simple question as I am still new to D&D but is Drow an insult or just another name for Dark Elves? Is it something they call themselves? What would be an insult to them?
Most (if not all) elves hate the Drow. I think it has something to do with their nature. So if you called an elf a Drow they'd probably feel quite insulted.
The Underdark dwelling elves do refer to themselves as Drow, however, more commonly Drow would identify as being part of a noble house or as a devout of the spider deity Lolth first and foremost.
A Drow would probably be insulted if you mocked their deity Lolth or said anything that challenged their personal pride, strength, or knowledge.
Drow is just another name for dark elf. It's the more official term, I think. In fact, I've found that drow is used more than dark elf in most D&D supplements/books etc.
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
Drow isn't insulting unless used against other subraces of elves. Though if anyone is looking to insult a Drow, here are some fun ones to use:
*Pale Face (Some of the ones from bellow the surface use this to insult one another considering the word for "pale" is the same word for "weak" in Undercommon.)
*Spider Kisser (This applies to those that believe in Lolth, though the ones that don't may still be offended.)
*Dirt/Soot/Dung Elf (This will offend the racist Drow because it implies simply grime as opposed to a heritage.)
*Ash Man/Woman (Also implies some sort of grime.)
*Moss Licker/Eater (Moss is often eaten in the Underdark, though it could imply uncivility.)
*Cave Man/Woman (Does not apply to Drow from Eberron, Aevendrow, Exandria, or Lorendrow. Offensive since it also implies uncivility from Drow native to the Underdark.)
*Drizzt Lookalike (If they know Drizzt -- which is highly likely considering his fame -- they may be offended if they aren't goodly like the Drow hero.)
*Iblith (Means "excrement". While Drow use it for other races, it could be used for extra insult.)
*Mama's Boy (Because of the strong Matriarchal society, and the reminder of societal belief that males are lesser than females.)
*Daddy's Girl (Similar to "Mama's Boy", but is targeted for the women, and also implies that the woman is not in the Matron's favor and that they are weaker than men.)
*Web-Licker/Spider's-Thrall (Emphasizes the worship of Lolth.)
*Spider Sacrifice (Meaning that they're so useless that their only worth is to be sacrificed.)
That's the correct answer. It's whatever the DM says.
I first encountered Drow back in the mid-1980s when playing the "Hall of the Fire Giant King" module. As I understood it, "Drow" was their word for themselves, and the surface folk called them "dark elves" because the module art showed them as having jet black skin. But I remember even back then that didn't make sense to me. If they have been living deep underground for so long, why would their skin be black? Melanin is a genetic protection from solar radiation. The Drow should have been very pale white. Right?
You're assuming the skin tone is a product of natural processes. Pretty sure it's either a result of Corellon marking their ancestors for following Lolth over him, or Lolth doing it to make them distinctive.
You're assuming the skin tone is a product of natural processes. Pretty sure it's either a result of Corellon marking their ancestors for following Lolth over him, or Lolth doing it to make them distinctive.
Given that Underdark dwarves & gnomes also have gray skin compared to their surface cousins, I lean toward it being a effect of being in the Underdark. And as already said, being underground should make them pale white, not gray. So... exposure to Faerzress for FR, and then real world tradition for later settings?
Also, Trollish seriously necro'd this thread. Yikes.
That's the correct answer. It's whatever the DM says.
I first encountered Drow back in the mid-1980s when playing the "Hall of the Fire Giant King" module. As I understood it, "Drow" was their word for themselves, and the surface folk called them "dark elves" because the module art showed them as having jet black skin. But I remember even back then that didn't make sense to me. If they have been living deep underground for so long, why would their skin be black? Melanin is a genetic protection from solar radiation. The Drow should have been very pale white. Right?
I don't think its a nature thing, more of a divinely chosen thing. I believe if Lolth made the drow, she might've made them in her image because Lolth is often depicted with dark skin vs pale skin. That or the Crown War, it's a curse rather than adaptive biology. Plus theres some off-purple drow as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The D&D homebrewer, consumed by their craft, meticulously crafts formidable monsters in a cluttered workspace filled with ink-stained quills and well-worn tomes. With furrowed brow, they sketch the anatomy of their creations, imbuing each stroke with vision, seeking to push the boundaries of imagination in under 512 characters.
While I concede that that probably is the rationale behind the image of the Drow, I really kinda wish it wasn't. I fear that making the evil guys black by design may feed in to centuries of systemic bias that I don't consider healthy for society. Granted, the world today is a lot different than it was in 1978, for better or worse. And maybe it was just a meaningless design choice that was not intended to be symbolic of anything. I just think it may be considered problematic, if not from a moral standpoint then at least from a business standpoint, to use a particular skin color to identify a group of people as being "cursed" or "evil".
This seems to be looking awfully hard for something to be concerned about. The color black has a lot of evil associations that are well divorced from real-life skin tones, and Drow don’t fit most if any of the other stereotypes commonly associated with the demographic you’re referring to. People looking to engage with the premise in good faith are just going to see the “like elves, but Evil” vibe intended, and frankly anyone who spends a lot of time constructing a narrative on how this relates to specious irl claims probably already has that conclusion in mind when they started. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Now, if we were talking about the older presentation of orcs and lore had attention being drawn to dark skin tones and some other characteristics there’d be grounds for saying it’s a problematic presentation.
Frankly, early drow are straight out of Blaxploitation movies, and no, they don't have a mythological base. While it's true that there are dokkalfar in Norse myth, it's pretty unclear what they actually were, whether they were actually different from svartalfar, and whether either one was different from dwarves. Other types of 'evil elf' options, such as unseelie, were either not particularly physically distinct and you had to identify them by their actions, or primarily had concealable distinctions (such as tails, fangs, being hollow, etc) rather than skin color changes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Its just a simple question as I am still new to D&D but is Drow an insult or just another name for Dark Elves? Is it something they call themselves? What would be an insult to them?
Most (if not all) elves hate the Drow. I think it has something to do with their nature. So if you called an elf a Drow they'd probably feel quite insulted.
The Underdark dwelling elves do refer to themselves as Drow, however, more commonly Drow would identify as being part of a noble house or as a devout of the spider deity Lolth first and foremost.
A Drow would probably be insulted if you mocked their deity Lolth or said anything that challenged their personal pride, strength, or knowledge.
"Drow" isn't a racial slur if that's what you're asking, but most dark elves would attack you on-sight regardless.
"The Epic Level Handbook wasn't that bad, guys.
Guys, pls."
Drow is just another name for dark elf. It's the more official term, I think. In fact, I've found that drow is used more than dark elf in most D&D supplements/books etc.
Check out my Extended signature here
Class Guides: Barbarian, Rogue, Sorcerer, Bard General Guides: PvP
Currently playing in: Quest for the Shunned City, Coliseum of Conquest, DragonDenn's Dragonlords, Shipwrecked on Fugue, Tomb of Annihilation, Razor's Lost Mine of Phandelver, The Lost Kenku & One Grung Above
Currently DMing: Princes of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, Coliseum of Conquest—The Arena (Sometimes)
Drow isn't insulting unless used against other subraces of elves. Though if anyone is looking to insult a Drow, here are some fun ones to use:
*Pale Face (Some of the ones from bellow the surface use this to insult one another considering the word for "pale" is the same word for "weak" in Undercommon.)
*Spider Kisser (This applies to those that believe in Lolth, though the ones that don't may still be offended.)
*Dirt/Soot/Dung Elf (This will offend the racist Drow because it implies simply grime as opposed to a heritage.)
*Ash Man/Woman (Also implies some sort of grime.)
*Moss Licker/Eater (Moss is often eaten in the Underdark, though it could imply uncivility.)
*Cave Man/Woman (Does not apply to Drow from Eberron, Aevendrow, Exandria, or Lorendrow. Offensive since it also implies uncivility from Drow native to the Underdark.)
*Drizzt Lookalike (If they know Drizzt -- which is highly likely considering his fame -- they may be offended if they aren't goodly like the Drow hero.)
*Iblith (Means "excrement". While Drow use it for other races, it could be used for extra insult.)
*Mama's Boy (Because of the strong Matriarchal society, and the reminder of societal belief that males are lesser than females.)
*Daddy's Girl (Similar to "Mama's Boy", but is targeted for the women, and also implies that the woman is not in the Matron's favor and that they are weaker than men.)
*Web-Licker/Spider's-Thrall (Emphasizes the worship of Lolth.)
*Spider Sacrifice (Meaning that they're so useless that their only worth is to be sacrificed.)
It is whatever the DM says it is.
That's the correct answer. It's whatever the DM says.
I first encountered Drow back in the mid-1980s when playing the "Hall of the Fire Giant King" module. As I understood it, "Drow" was their word for themselves, and the surface folk called them "dark elves" because the module art showed them as having jet black skin. But I remember even back then that didn't make sense to me. If they have been living deep underground for so long, why would their skin be black? Melanin is a genetic protection from solar radiation. The Drow should have been very pale white. Right?
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
You're assuming the skin tone is a product of natural processes. Pretty sure it's either a result of Corellon marking their ancestors for following Lolth over him, or Lolth doing it to make them distinctive.
Given that Underdark dwarves & gnomes also have gray skin compared to their surface cousins, I lean toward it being a effect of being in the Underdark. And as already said, being underground should make them pale white, not gray. So... exposure to Faerzress for FR, and then real world tradition for later settings?
Also, Trollish seriously necro'd this thread. Yikes.
And I have no regrets, Jaeken. Mwa hahaha.
I think it's kind of like Lizzo. Lizzo is great but nobody wants to be compared to Lizzo.
I don't think its a nature thing, more of a divinely chosen thing. I believe if Lolth made the drow, she might've made them in her image because Lolth is often depicted with dark skin vs pale skin. That or the Crown War, it's a curse rather than adaptive biology. Plus theres some off-purple drow as well.
While I concede that that probably is the rationale behind the image of the Drow, I really kinda wish it wasn't. I fear that making the evil guys black by design may feed in to centuries of systemic bias that I don't consider healthy for society. Granted, the world today is a lot different than it was in 1978, for better or worse. And maybe it was just a meaningless design choice that was not intended to be symbolic of anything. I just think it may be considered problematic, if not from a moral standpoint then at least from a business standpoint, to use a particular skin color to identify a group of people as being "cursed" or "evil".
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
This seems to be looking awfully hard for something to be concerned about. The color black has a lot of evil associations that are well divorced from real-life skin tones, and Drow don’t fit most if any of the other stereotypes commonly associated with the demographic you’re referring to. People looking to engage with the premise in good faith are just going to see the “like elves, but Evil” vibe intended, and frankly anyone who spends a lot of time constructing a narrative on how this relates to specious irl claims probably already has that conclusion in mind when they started. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Now, if we were talking about the older presentation of orcs and lore had attention being drawn to dark skin tones and some other characteristics there’d be grounds for saying it’s a problematic presentation.
Frankly, early drow are straight out of Blaxploitation movies, and no, they don't have a mythological base. While it's true that there are dokkalfar in Norse myth, it's pretty unclear what they actually were, whether they were actually different from svartalfar, and whether either one was different from dwarves. Other types of 'evil elf' options, such as unseelie, were either not particularly physically distinct and you had to identify them by their actions, or primarily had concealable distinctions (such as tails, fangs, being hollow, etc) rather than skin color changes.