I just watched some Videos about how different People did try to achieve becoming a God.
Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul; Midnight or Karsus.
While each of them did have different reasons in why things happened and how they did approach it, I still have some questions about the lore behind it.
Like if you make a lore accurate story about it and successfully achieve it a similar way to the first 3 to slay Tiamat or Bahamut instead. Would the respective Character just turn into Taimat or Bahamut just with their own mind? If there is even is an official answer to this in anything released in the past, how would the result look like?
Just the Physical Body of that God, or everything that the God can do outside of its Portfolio and so on, or would the character just stay themselves without any changes? Talking about for example Aura of Invulnerability from Bahamut and 5 different Breath Weapons from Tiamat. Is that just gone together with the god.
All this under the assumption that the entire process of "claiming the Portfolio and the Divine Spark" and what is required for this is already successfully achieved.
You're asking what would happen if a player character killed Tiamat or Bahamut in an attempt to replace them, in a manner similar to how Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul replaced Jergal?
As far as I know, there's nothing in 5e about becoming a god because the normal gameplay becomes pretty much inconsequential at that point. I would say that what happens is definitely under the DM's discretion.
I assume this is something that would happen towards the end of a campaign, so as the DM I might decide that that PC is elevated to godhood, and that is their character's ending. Think one of Gale's possible endings in BG3 where he becomes a god, but there's not really any consequences because the campaign is over.
If a player or party achieves something like this and the campaign is intended to continue, I like your idea of giving them some of the god's abilities. I think it would be a question of what the players are going up against and what the DM thinks would keep things fun.
Yeah I know 5e doesn't really have something like that but is there some information about this in previous editions?
Well the idea of the campaign is that something happened to some specific gods in dnd and as a result of that the world is being in some sort of unbalanced state that needs to be saved before it's to late.
So in terms to make it work the Team needs to achieve Godhood themselves like Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul did it. While most of the players could basically choose which God they would want to replac, 2 of the Characters would specifically need to choose Tiamat and Bahamut because of a special Role in the Campaign.
That's why it would matter for the campaign if there is any lore about how this works. I found some sources in 3e but from what I found until now they don't specifically explain what happens in a case like that.
Godhood isn't really something that should be within the player's grasp, especially in the current edition which has a clear and designed cutoff point for player progression.
I just watched some Videos about how different People did try to achieve becoming a God.
Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul; Midnight or Karsus.
None of the Dead Three ascended through means of power or violence - Jergal had grown tired of his role and used the three mortals as a means to that end, 'losing' a game of chance and dividing his portfolios among them. Jergal then chose to act as seneschal to - and instruct - Myrkul, Cyric and Kelemvor when each successively lost the divine portfolio of Lord of the Dead. Midnight, similarly, had been entrusted with much of Mystra's (1.0) divinity during the Time of Troubles, Ao allowed her to become the new Goddess of Magic (Mystra 2.0) after the former was slain by Helm. Karsus' circumstances can't be replicated due to Mystra (1.0)'s edict, structuring magic to a limit of 9th level spells.
Quote from Acno_Cero>> Like if you make a lore accurate story about it and successfully achieve it a similar way to the first 3 to slay Tiamat or Bahamut instead. Would the respective Character just turn into Taimat or Bahamut just with their own mind? If there is even is an official answer to this in anything released in the past, how would the result look like?
Just the Physical Body of that God, or everything that the God can do outside of its Portfolio and so on, or would the character just stay themselves without any changes? Talking about for example Aura of Invulnerability from Bahamut and 5 different Breath Weapons from Tiamat. Is that just gone together with the god.
All this under the assumption that the entire process of "claiming the Portfolio and the Divine Spark" and what is required for this is already successfully achieved.
Gods don't really work like that - In most circumstances, player characters could engage and defeat an Aspect or Avatar of a god, and destroying that would inconvenience, weaken or otherwise thwart the plans of said god in the short term, but fighting a god in their Divine Realm is... suicidal at best and beyond the scope of 5th edition. Even were it not, Jimbobathy the Gnome Barbarian isn't suddenly in charge of the Draconic Pantheon if he, through some unthinkable means, manages to drop Tiamat or Bahamut. What claim does he have to dragons across the Multiverse? How does he embody the literal concept of Good or Evil dragons? What worshippers and prestructured faith does he have arranged to support those domains and portfolios?
Yeah I know 5e doesn't really have something like that but is there some information about this in previous editions?
4th Edition had an option for the player to become a Demigod as part of their Epic Destiny - Gameplay was built around three tiers of play, Heroic (1-10), Paragon (11-20) and Epic Destiny (21-30). Demigod was, essentially, a class-choice you could take in that third tier of play, while other options included Archmages, Archdruids, Lords of Hell, and various other Multiverse-shaking champions.
Third Edition went into the most detail on how Godhood worked mechanically and how divinity could be gained, grown or lost. In particular you'd want to look at Faiths and Pantheons (Forgotten Realms), Deities and Demigods (Core) and the Epic Level Handbook (Core). ThirdEdition didn't have a 'level cap' and advancement was unbounded. Even so, player characters could, hypothetically, reach absurd levels and still not be gods, demigods or even semi-divine. Godhood was an entirely separate progression, and the first two books covered how Divine Rankings worked. A creature with even a Divine Rank of 0 was still far outside of the realm of mortality - You could advance to 0. You didn't start there.
Quote from Acno_Cero>> So in terms to make it work the Team needs to achieve Godhood themselves like Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul did it. While most of the players could basically choose which God they would want to replac, 2 of the Characters would specifically need to choose Tiamat and Bahamut because of a special Role in the Campaign.
That's why it would matter for the campaign if there is any lore about how this works. I found some sources in 3e but from what I found until now they don't specifically explain what happens in a case like that.
Top of my head examples of mortals with various unique circumstances in the Forgotten Realms setting that have obtained divinity. In every instance, there have been external factors in their ascension - Divinity was given to them by an existing god (or Ao), a god imparting the character with their own portfolios or part of their own divinity, or happenstance after an existing god being slain being slain and using a follower as a successor or a means of their own resurrection at a later point. Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul have already been mentioned above. Kelemvor, Midnight (Mystra 2.0), and Cyric were all elevated to godhood by Ao. Drasek Riven joined with Mask's essence, becoming the new Mask while breaking Shar's Cycle of Night. Erevis Cale, Rivalen Tanthul, Kesson Rel and Mephistopheles also held and lost parts of Mask's divinity during the Twilight War, Finder Wyvernspur... Is a whole bag of stupid, but basically started a cult, stole Moander's divinity and... then... Look, Forget Finder. Finder is dumb and bad. The dragons Tchazzar, Gestaniius and Skuthosiin also became minor gods after Tiamat's Untheric Pantheon avatar was slain by Gilgeam in the Time of Troubles, but through destroyed one another, Tchazzar eating the other two and causing Tiamat's rebirth. Tchazzar was then eaten by Tiamat. He was reborn in the Rage of Dragons, many years later, but was no longer a demipower.
Various Chosen could be considered to be Rank 0 divinities due to the investiture by their particular gods, but are far below even demigods in power, function and capability, lacking in the power to grant spells or maintain divine realms.
Various gods have had children who were, at the very least, demipowers/demigods - Most racial pantheons contain the direct children and grandchildren their major gods. Bane's son Iyachtu Xvim was somewhat relevant after Bane's death in the Time of Troubles, but was also a vessel for Bane's rebirth in much the same way that Bhaal had intended with his Bhaalspawn.
Usually D&D doesn't have the mortal take on the appearance of the immortal they replace. It's about taking on the Portfolio of the immortal.
The books almost always depict a change in personality, and sometimes alignment. If the mortal has a different alignment than the immortal it creates a potential conflict between the portfolio and the immortal. This can sometimes result in the new immortal losing that portfolio, or being forced to act against their personality and morals.
Taking a portfolio or even obtaining immortality generally requires more than killing an immortal. In fact its much more common to gain the status of a deity without kiiling one. While it isn't absolutely required for the new immortal to claim a portfolio, they will often end up being a minor power that represents one aspect of the general portfolio of a greater power. For example a Goddess of love might take on two new immortal soulmates who end up sharing the portfolio of marriage. Or a new immortal might take on the portfolio of desire.
This can look similar to a demihuman pantheon where a Greater God leads the group, while several other immortals. claim various responsibilities while mostly working together against enemies. Although conflict and bitter enemies can also exist within such a group.
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I just watched some Videos about how different People did try to achieve becoming a God.
Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul; Midnight or Karsus.
While each of them did have different reasons in why things happened and how they did approach it, I still have some questions about the lore behind it.
Like if you make a lore accurate story about it and successfully achieve it a similar way to the first 3 to slay Tiamat or Bahamut instead. Would the respective Character just turn into Taimat or Bahamut just with their own mind? If there is even is an official answer to this in anything released in the past, how would the result look like?
Just the Physical Body of that God, or everything that the God can do outside of its Portfolio and so on, or would the character just stay themselves without any changes? Talking about for example Aura of Invulnerability from Bahamut and 5 different Breath Weapons from Tiamat. Is that just gone together with the god.
All this under the assumption that the entire process of "claiming the Portfolio and the Divine Spark" and what is required for this is already successfully achieved.
You're asking what would happen if a player character killed Tiamat or Bahamut in an attempt to replace them, in a manner similar to how Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul replaced Jergal?
As far as I know, there's nothing in 5e about becoming a god because the normal gameplay becomes pretty much inconsequential at that point. I would say that what happens is definitely under the DM's discretion.
I assume this is something that would happen towards the end of a campaign, so as the DM I might decide that that PC is elevated to godhood, and that is their character's ending. Think one of Gale's possible endings in BG3 where he becomes a god, but there's not really any consequences because the campaign is over.
If a player or party achieves something like this and the campaign is intended to continue, I like your idea of giving them some of the god's abilities. I think it would be a question of what the players are going up against and what the DM thinks would keep things fun.
Well yes kind of like that exactly
Yeah I know 5e doesn't really have something like that but is there some information about this in previous editions?
Well the idea of the campaign is that something happened to some specific gods in dnd and as a result of that the world is being in some sort of unbalanced state that needs to be saved before it's to late.
So in terms to make it work the Team needs to achieve Godhood themselves like Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul did it. While most of the players could basically choose which God they would want to replac, 2 of the Characters would specifically need to choose Tiamat and Bahamut because of a special Role in the Campaign.
That's why it would matter for the campaign if there is any lore about how this works. I found some sources in 3e but from what I found until now they don't specifically explain what happens in a case like that.
Godhood isn't really something that should be within the player's grasp, especially in the current edition which has a clear and designed cutoff point for player progression.
None of the Dead Three ascended through means of power or violence - Jergal had grown tired of his role and used the three mortals as a means to that end, 'losing' a game of chance and dividing his portfolios among them. Jergal then chose to act as seneschal to - and instruct - Myrkul, Cyric and Kelemvor when each successively lost the divine portfolio of Lord of the Dead.
Midnight, similarly, had been entrusted with much of Mystra's (1.0) divinity during the Time of Troubles, Ao allowed her to become the new Goddess of Magic (Mystra 2.0) after the former was slain by Helm.
Karsus' circumstances can't be replicated due to Mystra (1.0)'s edict, structuring magic to a limit of 9th level spells.
Gods don't really work like that - In most circumstances, player characters could engage and defeat an Aspect or Avatar of a god, and destroying that would inconvenience, weaken or otherwise thwart the plans of said god in the short term, but fighting a god in their Divine Realm is... suicidal at best and beyond the scope of 5th edition.
Even were it not, Jimbobathy the Gnome Barbarian isn't suddenly in charge of the Draconic Pantheon if he, through some unthinkable means, manages to drop Tiamat or Bahamut. What claim does he have to dragons across the Multiverse? How does he embody the literal concept of Good or Evil dragons? What worshippers and prestructured faith does he have arranged to support those domains and portfolios?
4th Edition had an option for the player to become a Demigod as part of their Epic Destiny - Gameplay was built around three tiers of play, Heroic (1-10), Paragon (11-20) and Epic Destiny (21-30).
Demigod was, essentially, a class-choice you could take in that third tier of play, while other options included Archmages, Archdruids, Lords of Hell, and various other Multiverse-shaking champions.
Third Edition went into the most detail on how Godhood worked mechanically and how divinity could be gained, grown or lost. In particular you'd want to look at Faiths and Pantheons (Forgotten Realms), Deities and Demigods (Core) and the Epic Level Handbook (Core).
Third Edition didn't have a 'level cap' and advancement was unbounded. Even so, player characters could, hypothetically, reach absurd levels and still not be gods, demigods or even semi-divine. Godhood was an entirely separate progression, and the first two books covered how Divine Rankings worked. A creature with even a Divine Rank of 0 was still far outside of the realm of mortality - You could advance to 0. You didn't start there.
Top of my head examples of mortals with various unique circumstances in the Forgotten Realms setting that have obtained divinity.
In every instance, there have been external factors in their ascension - Divinity was given to them by an existing god (or Ao), a god imparting the character with their own portfolios or part of their own divinity, or happenstance after an existing god being slain being slain and using a follower as a successor or a means of their own resurrection at a later point.
Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul have already been mentioned above.
Kelemvor, Midnight (Mystra 2.0), and Cyric were all elevated to godhood by Ao.
Drasek Riven joined with Mask's essence, becoming the new Mask while breaking Shar's Cycle of Night. Erevis Cale, Rivalen Tanthul, Kesson Rel and Mephistopheles also held and lost parts of Mask's divinity during the Twilight War,
Finder Wyvernspur... Is a whole bag of stupid, but basically started a cult, stole Moander's divinity and... then... Look, Forget Finder. Finder is dumb and bad.
The dragons Tchazzar, Gestaniius and Skuthosiin also became minor gods after Tiamat's Untheric Pantheon avatar was slain by Gilgeam in the Time of Troubles, but through destroyed one another, Tchazzar eating the other two and causing Tiamat's rebirth. Tchazzar was then eaten by Tiamat. He was reborn in the Rage of Dragons, many years later, but was no longer a demipower.
Various Chosen could be considered to be Rank 0 divinities due to the investiture by their particular gods, but are far below even demigods in power, function and capability, lacking in the power to grant spells or maintain divine realms.
Various gods have had children who were, at the very least, demipowers/demigods - Most racial pantheons contain the direct children and grandchildren their major gods.
Bane's son Iyachtu Xvim was somewhat relevant after Bane's death in the Time of Troubles, but was also a vessel for Bane's rebirth in much the same way that Bhaal had intended with his Bhaalspawn.
Usually D&D doesn't have the mortal take on the appearance of the immortal they replace. It's about taking on the Portfolio of the immortal.
The books almost always depict a change in personality, and sometimes alignment. If the mortal has a different alignment than the immortal it creates a potential conflict between the portfolio and the immortal. This can sometimes result in the new immortal losing that portfolio, or being forced to act against their personality and morals.
Taking a portfolio or even obtaining immortality generally requires more than killing an immortal. In fact its much more common to gain the status of a deity without kiiling one. While it isn't absolutely required for the new immortal to claim a portfolio, they will often end up being a minor power that represents one aspect of the general portfolio of a greater power. For example a Goddess of love might take on two new immortal soulmates who end up sharing the portfolio of marriage. Or a new immortal might take on the portfolio of desire.
This can look similar to a demihuman pantheon where a Greater God leads the group, while several other immortals. claim various responsibilities while mostly working together against enemies. Although conflict and bitter enemies can also exist within such a group.