Not sure if this is already posted, or if it's even in the right discussion thread.
Age to level comparison is a pain in the butt to make enjoyable. What happens when they are elves or whatever with another 200 years and they are already a level 20 character? Where's the ambition to go on another adventure? Where's the closure? If you make the character too old, what has he done in life to advance himself?
Do you make the character (un)intentionally forget his training to start him over again as another class? Do you change his background to reflect his previous life, i.e. entertainer/charlatan for Bards, criminal/charlatan for Rogues, acolyte for Clerics and Paladins, outlander for Rangers, etc. For Meta do you try to negotiate with the DM for all your stats, or accept a refresh in all your stats?
Think about it in smaller numbers. If you were at the peak capability at 25 years old and still have to live on Earth for roughly 65 more years, you would go do something else or go mad with monotony and lack of challenge and advancement, right?
Age to level comparison is a pain in the butt to make enjoyable. What happens when they are elves or whatever with another 200 years and they are already a level 20 character? Where's the ambition to go on another adventure? Where's the closure? If you make the character too old, what has he done in life to advance himself?
What's "ambition to go on another adventure?" Wizards often go adventuring because they want to loot ancient tombs of rare spells. That's going to be a thing, no matter if you cast level 9 magic or not. Clerics, warlocks and paladins are beholden to others, be they gods, spirits or royalty, and often go on quests for their masters. Druids and rangers often see themselves as champions who protect people from the badness in the wild. Often, people start "adventuring" because they're good people who don't want to see a drow raid destroy their home - basically, they're soldiers. Others are glorified mercenaries, who only adventure to get what amounts to a paycheck. None of these concerns things are something that go away if you suddenly hit "level 20." Well, the mercenaries will probably quit long before level 20 and retire, getting a job as a teacher for royalty or something.
Many people also rise in level without going on adventures at all. Wizards especially can grow just from studying magic. Its not inconceivable to have an archmage that's only engaged in research and the occasional politics. Imagine a librarian wizard - they read and practice many spells, but mostly conjuration, abjuration and divinations to sort books, protect shelvings and find the right material someone wants to read.
If your goal is to keep on advancing in skill through conflict, then there are rules in the DMG for post level 20 benefits. Raising attributes, gaining feats, and Epic Boons. So, in theory, a level 20 wizard is still learning things. More spell slots, immortality, spell mastery and spell recall.... There is no peak. I see no reason that, through the use of some custom Epic Boons, an Eldritch Knight couldn't eventually learn Foresight and a few other high level magics. It would require a lot of them, but I see no reason it couldn't happen in the absolute extremes for an immortal.
Thank you Mephista, I was not aware of going further than 20th Level. I'm still relatively new to Dungeons and Dragons, and I thought it capped at 20. That is wonderful news. I'm primarily from MMORPG background where there's hard caps for levels, unless it's like LOTRO with a Free-to-Play soft cap, and a Pay-to-Experience hard cap that raises ever so often.
The other thing, I don't know if you saw about the part of the first post giving examples like a former bard getting entertainer background if you reuse them. It was more for if you really enjoyed the character and the DM is making a new campaign inside the same realm, or allows your character to be transported via deus ex machina, but everyone starts at level one. If there's no distinct time jump, or if it's possible to be inside the elf or whoever's lifetime, go back out on an adventure of utmost importance. That character could also be a hermit or some other background that allows them to basically get "rusty" and so they approach it that way.
I saw somewhere about Legacy characters and Prestige class. Do these things let old characters have another opportunity at interacting with the world/realm they helped saved? That's why I thought this topic belonged here in Story & Lore. The Lore and Stories your characters have on the realm they live in.
If you were at the peak capability at 25 years old and still have to live on Earth for roughly 65 more years...
I'll just throw it out there that, realistically, it takes a lot of work to stay at the peak of almost anything. And if you are at the peak of your capabilities, you always have the threat of something else reaching their own peak, and then challenging you. Or perhaps, in D&D terms, villains teaming up to remove you.
When playing my characters, I don't tend to think of adventures as a way they can advance themselves. Usually an adventure has a goal (saving the world, etc), and getting stronger happens naturally as part of the journey. The nature of the adventures, the goals, still remain. Unless you're an athlete then I don't think you're going to be too bothered by 'peaking'.
Even at a maximum level, the enemies may keep getting harder and/or more numerous, and you may have to seek advancement through powerful magic items, blessings from deities, or plain old making allies through diplomacy. Think of it in MMORPG terms, if you've played any—once you hit max level, you have to then upgrade your gear.
The other thing, I don't know if you saw about the part of the first post giving examples like a former bard getting entertainer background if you reuse them. It was more for if you really enjoyed the character and the DM is making a new campaign inside the same realm, or allows your character to be transported via deus ex machina, but everyone starts at level one. If there's no distinct time jump, or if it's possible to be inside the elf or whoever's lifetime, go back out on an adventure of utmost importance. That character could also be a hermit or some other background that allows them to basically get "rusty" and so they approach it that way.
I saw somewhere about Legacy characters and Prestige class. Do these things let old characters have another opportunity at interacting with the world/realm they helped saved? That's why I thought this topic belonged here in Story & Lore. The Lore and Stories your characters have on the realm they live in.
That is something the DM will have to sign off on; translating Pcs like that has baggage the table might not like. There are no rules for going back to level 1, so it's on a group by group basis. I personally would not allow it, but would allow a similar PC without the history of the first character.
Prestige classes were something that were tested in 5e, but seems to be dropped.
This is what we used and I am sure you can adapt it to 5e. I think we first seen it in dragon mag, but I cannot be sure. I fully understand the issue and agree totally. I hope this helps.
D&D 3.5
Aging by level
RAW [rules as written] does not support characters reaching epic levels before aging. Heroes can be prodigies to start with by excluding the initial education years, but to have an epic level youth, pushes the limits of D&D. Think if it like this, in a handful of short years or even months a character can reach their maximum potential as near Gods, after which (lvl 40), they never advance further regardless of how long they adventure.
Though this is a fantasy game it offers suggested time lapses from everything from travel, to crafting items, and much more. In temperate environments it is rare for anything to happen during the winter months. The problem is that few DMs bother to track in game time, and by ignoring this game feature, they effectively debunk game features like druid & monk Timeless Body.
Wizards offered this variant as a clarification; ... Between adventures, quest, or wherever the story line has the opportunity for a period of down time – a character should catch up with their respective age. Leveling represents the experiences earned in an adventure, time spent training, and reflecting on those experiences. A wizard, for example, needs time to study new spells. This can consist of searching countless texts, merchants, or consulting masters to find the spells they are interested in learning, which all takes a great deal of time. This concept does not only apply to wizards and their musty books, it applies to every aspect of character advancement including new abilities, feats, BAB, and even simple skills. To learn characters have to repeatedly practice, before they level, and it should never be assumed that the character simply consumes every waking moment (while not adventuring) preparing to level. A character first level takes several years to prepare for, so each level there after should represent a significant period of time based on the character’s race. Humans pick up knowledge quickly whereas elves can practice for many years to perfect their skills. When a character levels also adjust their age as follows;
Starting ages page 109 PHB. Plus a number of years per level as follows; – Note these numbers are based on race longevities over 40 levels. Human........... (1.0) Dwarf............ (4.5) Elf.................. (5.0) Gnome........... (3) Half - Elf....... (2.0) Half - Orc...... (1.0) Halfling......... (1.5)
When leveling in the middle of a mission, this does not represent their current age but what their age should be after their next lapse in the story line. For the duration of a current mission or quest their age should remain the same. DMs should evaluate each point when aging is appropriate. These lapse can also be good periods to adjust character wealth or allow the story environment to rebuild / develop.
As most races have different longevities, it can be simply explained that adventuring is hard on characters. Like a life of hard manual labor, adventure ages a character faster then normal. There will always be conflicts with short lived races verse long live ones, like elves, but it does not change the fact that an epic level youth is broken. An elf should not achieve max level in what would be considered their teenager years only to set on their thumbs for the rest of their very long lives. As there is no way to bring characters back to life who have died of old age, characters with vast differences in longevity will have to accept that they meet each other at a nonspecific periods in their lives.
Players may disagree with this variant, but keep in mind that a player’s perspective of game play is significantly faster then that of a character’s perspective of in game time. Few races would set up a community in a hostile environment. If attacks happen more than once every few months then no community would keep up a population, but from the perspective of the player, they can battle several times in the course of one session. If your players wait around in a tavern for the next fool to run in with a quest, then tell them there was nothing for several in game months or years.
With this variant; normal characters will only ever experience the effects of middle age, while few epic characters (level 20 +) will ever reach venerable ages before level 40 and this is limited to disciplined classes like monks and wizards. This variant provides balance to DMs that find tracking in-game time too tedious. It can also offer players a method of evaluating enemies. Most adventures start out young in life, so if the party faces an old fighter then there is a good chance that he is extremely skilled.
In 3.5 “AGE” is commonly refereed to as an affliction. It is not a disease but a lasting condition that can not be cured without powerful magic. There are several magical methods available to epic character to reduce their physical age. The best of which is the wish or miracle spell. Each time it is cast it reduces the character's age by one age category +1 year per age altering spells that has been cast on the character.
Not sure if this is already posted, or if it's even in the right discussion thread.
Age to level comparison is a pain in the butt to make enjoyable. What happens when they are elves or whatever with another 200 years and they are already a level 20 character? Where's the ambition to go on another adventure? Where's the closure? If you make the character too old, what has he done in life to advance himself?
Do you make the character (un)intentionally forget his training to start him over again as another class? Do you change his background to reflect his previous life, i.e. entertainer/charlatan for Bards, criminal/charlatan for Rogues, acolyte for Clerics and Paladins, outlander for Rangers, etc. For Meta do you try to negotiate with the DM for all your stats, or accept a refresh in all your stats?
Think about it in smaller numbers. If you were at the peak capability at 25 years old and still have to live on Earth for roughly 65 more years, you would go do something else or go mad with monotony and lack of challenge and advancement, right?
Thank you Mephista, I was not aware of going further than 20th Level. I'm still relatively new to Dungeons and Dragons, and I thought it capped at 20. That is wonderful news. I'm primarily from MMORPG background where there's hard caps for levels, unless it's like LOTRO with a Free-to-Play soft cap, and a Pay-to-Experience hard cap that raises ever so often.
The other thing, I don't know if you saw about the part of the first post giving examples like a former bard getting entertainer background if you reuse them. It was more for if you really enjoyed the character and the DM is making a new campaign inside the same realm, or allows your character to be transported via deus ex machina, but everyone starts at level one. If there's no distinct time jump, or if it's possible to be inside the elf or whoever's lifetime, go back out on an adventure of utmost importance. That character could also be a hermit or some other background that allows them to basically get "rusty" and so they approach it that way.
I saw somewhere about Legacy characters and Prestige class. Do these things let old characters have another opportunity at interacting with the world/realm they helped saved? That's why I thought this topic belonged here in Story & Lore. The Lore and Stories your characters have on the realm they live in.
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This is what we used and I am sure you can adapt it to 5e. I think we first seen it in dragon mag, but I cannot be sure. I fully understand the issue and agree totally. I hope this helps.
D&D 3.5
Aging by level
RAW [rules as written] does not support characters reaching epic levels before aging. Heroes can be prodigies to start with by excluding the initial education years, but to have an epic level youth, pushes the limits of D&D. Think if it like this, in a handful of short years or even months a character can reach their maximum potential as near Gods, after which (lvl 40), they never advance further regardless of how long they adventure.
Though this is a fantasy game it offers suggested time lapses from everything from travel, to crafting items, and much more. In temperate environments it is rare for anything to happen during the winter months. The problem is that few DMs bother to track in game time, and by ignoring this game feature, they effectively debunk game features like druid & monk Timeless Body.
Wizards offered this variant as a clarification; ... Between adventures, quest, or wherever the story line has the opportunity for a period of down time – a character should catch up with their respective age. Leveling represents the experiences earned in an adventure, time spent training, and reflecting on those experiences. A wizard, for example, needs time to study new spells. This can consist of searching countless texts, merchants, or consulting masters to find the spells they are interested in learning, which all takes a great deal of time. This concept does not only apply to wizards and their musty books, it applies to every aspect of character advancement including new abilities, feats, BAB, and even simple skills. To learn characters have to repeatedly practice, before they level, and it should never be assumed that the character simply consumes every waking moment (while not adventuring) preparing to level. A character first level takes several years to prepare for, so each level there after should represent a significant period of time based on the character’s race. Humans pick up knowledge quickly whereas elves can practice for many years to perfect their skills. When a character levels also adjust their age as follows;
Starting ages page 109 PHB.
Plus a number of years per level as follows; – Note these numbers are based on race longevities over 40 levels.
Human........... (1.0) Dwarf............ (4.5) Elf.................. (5.0) Gnome........... (3) Half - Elf....... (2.0) Half - Orc...... (1.0) Halfling......... (1.5)
When leveling in the middle of a mission, this does not represent their current age but what their age should be after their next lapse in the story line. For the duration of a current mission or quest their age should remain the same. DMs should evaluate each point when aging is appropriate. These lapse can also be good periods to adjust character wealth or allow the story environment to rebuild / develop.
As most races have different longevities, it can be simply explained that adventuring is hard on characters. Like a life of hard manual labor, adventure ages a character faster then normal. There will always be conflicts with short lived races verse long live ones, like elves, but it does not change the fact that an epic level youth is broken. An elf should not achieve max level in what would be considered their teenager years only to set on their thumbs for the rest of their very long lives. As there is no way to bring characters back to life who have died of old age, characters with vast differences in longevity will have to accept that they meet each other at a nonspecific periods in their lives.
Players may disagree with this variant, but keep in mind that a player’s perspective of game play is significantly faster then that of a character’s perspective of in game time. Few races would set up a community in a hostile environment. If attacks happen more than once every few months then no community would keep up a population, but from the perspective of the player, they can battle several times in the course of one session. If your players wait around in a tavern for the next fool to run in with a quest, then tell them there was nothing for several in game months or years.
With this variant; normal characters will only ever experience the effects of middle age, while few epic characters (level 20 +) will ever reach venerable ages before level 40 and this is limited to disciplined classes like monks and wizards. This variant provides balance to DMs that find tracking in-game time too tedious. It can also offer players a method of evaluating enemies. Most adventures start out young in life, so if the party faces an old fighter then there is a good chance that he is extremely skilled.
In 3.5 “AGE” is commonly refereed to as an affliction. It is not a disease but a lasting condition that can not be cured without powerful magic. There are several magical methods available to epic character to reduce their physical age. The best of which is the wish or miracle spell. Each time it is cast it reduces the character's age by one age category +1 year per age altering spells that has been cast on the character.