I'm making a Lightfoot halfling arcane trickster character and I was wondering if fog cloud would be a good choice for his one first level spell that can be from any school of magic. Is that a good idea? I figure that I'll be able to sneak attack through the fog after getting blindsense at level 14, and until then I can just hide on my turn and sneak attack after it wears off.
1. This should be in Tips & Tactics, not general discussion.
2. If you are attacking something within the fog cloud or attacking something outside of the fog cloud while you are in the cloud, then your attack will be at disadvantage, which means no sneak attack damage.
3. Level 14 is a looooooong time to wait for a 1st level spell to be useful. Remember that you can replace a spell with a spell of the same level whenever you gain a level, so maybe pick something else and wait until then to get fog cloud.
4. I would strongly recommend taking find familiar. Here's why; it has INCREDIBLE out of combat usefulness, providing recon (which is often useful for rogues), the familiar can provide sneak attack by being next to a target, the familiar can provide advantage on attack rolls by taking the help action in combat, many familiars have darkvision (and halflings don't), you only need to cast it a single time, and then it's there until it dies, and, last but not least, it's a magic pet. For gameplay purposes I would recommend the owl, as it has a good perception, good stealth, incredible darkvision, advantage on most perception checks, and the Flyby feature which means it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks (sometimes a bad thing, but still).
Edit: if you're a halfling, an owl would also be big enough to wear as a backpack.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Actually, if you're attacking through the Fog Cloud, you also count as an invisible attacker, which means that you have advantage on the attack, canceling out the disadvantage from being unable to see them.
Darkness/obscured vision rules in 5E are very silly.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
After some more thought, I think I'll go with Find Familiar until I reach level 14, then replace it with Fog Cloud. At level 13, arcane tricksters can use Versatile Trickster to give themselves advantage on attack rolls as a bonus action, so having a familiar use the Help action for that becomes unnecessary. After I reach level 14, Blindsense will let me sense nearby enemies inside the fog and sneak attack them.
Careful. Versatile Trickster looks good when you first read it, but is actually just about the worst ability ever. You still have to use a full action to cast mage hand (which lasts for a minute), and you can't move it using the same bonus action you use to distract with it. That means to even have the opportunity to distract with it, you would have to use an action at the start of combat to cast it, a bonus action on subsequent turns to distract with it, AND if your target moves even 5 feet then you have to use both your action and bonus action to distract with it (which makes the distraction useless as it's only for one turn). It's somehow a worse version of true strike, but as a 13th level feature.
If you're already planning ahead to 14th level, I would recommend taking spider climb as your 8th level non-enchantment/illusion spell. Super cool for rogues.
Let it also be know that fog cloud is a complete pain for other party members.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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If you use the optional class rules from Tasha's, you can use Steady Aim as a bonus action to give yourself advantage on an attack roll starting at 3rd level. It locks you in place for a round, but that's much less of a restriction than Versatile Trickster. And comes online ten levels earlier.
I'm starting to think that I should get Misty Step at level 8 instead of replacing Find Familiar with Fog Cloud at level 14. Along with letting me get out of melee range after attacking with Booming Blade, it would also let me teleport to a new hiding place after sneak attacking since attacking while hidden gives away your location.
Well, Misty Step is a great spell on its own (seriously, there's no class that wouldn't benefit from 30ft teleportation as a bonus action), but it wouldn't help much for hiding after an attack since both Misty Step and Cunning Action (hide) use your bonus action.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Well, Misty Step is a great spell on its own (seriously, there's no class that wouldn't benefit from 30ft teleportation as a bonus action), but it wouldn't help much for hiding after an attack since both Misty Step and Cunning Action (hide) use your bonus action.
I might not be able to hide after using Misty Step, but it could at least get me somewhere I could hide on my next turn, or at the very least let me teleport somewhere the enemy isn't currently looking.
Blind sense for rogue is not the same as blindsight. It just let's you know it's location.
You would still be at a forced neutral state.
Find familiar is a poor option (for seeing in fog)because it uses your actions for the turn.
Rangers feral senses or blindsight fighting style is what you need. Sight of specific beasts is the lowest level to get Sight through fog.(wild shapes or beast sense[concentration])
That means to even have the opportunity to distract with it, you would have to use an action at the start of combat to cast it, a bonus action on subsequent turns to distract with it, AND if your target moves even 5 feet then you have to use both your action and bonus action to distract with it (which makes the distraction useless as it's only for one turn).
I'm not seeing that restriction in the rules. The Mage Hand spell says that "you can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it." You wouldn't count the Versatile Trickster ability as "using the Mage Hand?"
(Edit: removed irrelevant reference to Mage Hand Legerdemain.)
Actually, I wouldn't count Versatile Trickster as "using the mage hand." Unlike Mage Hand Legerdemain, which specifically adds its additional actions alongside those of the spell, Versatile Trickster is worded in a way that makes it seem to be a separate (bonus) action.
Misty step is fully possible to get as an arcane trickster, not hard at all. This thread is discussing use of spells gained at 3rd, 8th, 14th, and 20th level, as those can be from the entire Wizard spell list, which includes misty step.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Actually, I wouldn't count Versatile Trickster as "using the mage hand." Unlike Mage Hand Legerdemain, which specifically adds its additional actions alongside those of the spell, Versatile Trickster is worded in a way that makes it seem to be a separate (bonus) action.
Harsh, but if that's how you'd rule on it then I'd agree with you calling it "useless" earlier in the thread. Personally I'd rule the other way, based on how many easier ways there still are for an Arcane Trickster to get the same benefit (that's right, "Steady Aim," I'm looking at you...) and I'd have a hard time explaining to a player, narratively, what their character is doing with that bonus action if not using the mage hand that they are required to have in position for it. I know that probably sounds like I'm trying to pick a fight - I'm not - but I just don't see it. Based on the conflicting arguments I see elsewhere on the web, it's probably something worth asking individual DMs about if you're playing an Arcane Trickster at their table.
Even if the way you rule it is true, you still have to use your action to cast it, it only lasts a minute, and it can't be further than 30 feet from you. It's useless either way.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
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I'm making a Lightfoot halfling arcane trickster character and I was wondering if fog cloud would be a good choice for his one first level spell that can be from any school of magic. Is that a good idea? I figure that I'll be able to sneak attack through the fog after getting blindsense at level 14, and until then I can just hide on my turn and sneak attack after it wears off.
1. This should be in Tips & Tactics, not general discussion.
2. If you are attacking something within the fog cloud or attacking something outside of the fog cloud while you are in the cloud, then your attack will be at disadvantage, which means no sneak attack damage.
3. Level 14 is a looooooong time to wait for a 1st level spell to be useful. Remember that you can replace a spell with a spell of the same level whenever you gain a level, so maybe pick something else and wait until then to get fog cloud.
4. I would strongly recommend taking find familiar. Here's why; it has INCREDIBLE out of combat usefulness, providing recon (which is often useful for rogues), the familiar can provide sneak attack by being next to a target, the familiar can provide advantage on attack rolls by taking the help action in combat, many familiars have darkvision (and halflings don't), you only need to cast it a single time, and then it's there until it dies, and, last but not least, it's a magic pet. For gameplay purposes I would recommend the owl, as it has a good perception, good stealth, incredible darkvision, advantage on most perception checks, and the Flyby feature which means it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks (sometimes a bad thing, but still).
Edit: if you're a halfling, an owl would also be big enough to wear as a backpack.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Actually, if you're attacking through the Fog Cloud, you also count as an invisible attacker, which means that you have advantage on the attack, canceling out the disadvantage from being unable to see them.
Darkness/obscured vision rules in 5E are very silly.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
After some more thought, I think I'll go with Find Familiar until I reach level 14, then replace it with Fog Cloud. At level 13, arcane tricksters can use Versatile Trickster to give themselves advantage on attack rolls as a bonus action, so having a familiar use the Help action for that becomes unnecessary. After I reach level 14, Blindsense will let me sense nearby enemies inside the fog and sneak attack them.
Careful. Versatile Trickster looks good when you first read it, but is actually just about the worst ability ever. You still have to use a full action to cast mage hand (which lasts for a minute), and you can't move it using the same bonus action you use to distract with it. That means to even have the opportunity to distract with it, you would have to use an action at the start of combat to cast it, a bonus action on subsequent turns to distract with it, AND if your target moves even 5 feet then you have to use both your action and bonus action to distract with it (which makes the distraction useless as it's only for one turn). It's somehow a worse version of true strike, but as a 13th level feature.
If you're already planning ahead to 14th level, I would recommend taking spider climb as your 8th level non-enchantment/illusion spell. Super cool for rogues.
Let it also be know that fog cloud is a complete pain for other party members.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
If you use the optional class rules from Tasha's, you can use Steady Aim as a bonus action to give yourself advantage on an attack roll starting at 3rd level. It locks you in place for a round, but that's much less of a restriction than Versatile Trickster. And comes online ten levels earlier.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm starting to think that I should get Misty Step at level 8 instead of replacing Find Familiar with Fog Cloud at level 14. Along with letting me get out of melee range after attacking with Booming Blade, it would also let me teleport to a new hiding place after sneak attacking since attacking while hidden gives away your location.
Well, Misty Step is a great spell on its own (seriously, there's no class that wouldn't benefit from 30ft teleportation as a bonus action), but it wouldn't help much for hiding after an attack since both Misty Step and Cunning Action (hide) use your bonus action.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I might not be able to hide after using Misty Step, but it could at least get me somewhere I could hide on my next turn, or at the very least let me teleport somewhere the enemy isn't currently looking.
Or get you out of immediate danger. Yes, it's a very useful spell.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Blind sense for rogue is not the same as blindsight. It just let's you know it's location.
You would still be at a forced neutral state.
Find familiar is a poor option (for seeing in fog)because it uses your actions for the turn.
Rangers feral senses or blindsight fighting style is what you need. Sight of specific beasts is the lowest level to get Sight through fog.(wild shapes or beast sense[concentration])
I'm not seeing that restriction in the rules. The Mage Hand spell says that "you can move the hand up to 30 feet each time you use it." You wouldn't count the Versatile Trickster ability as "using the Mage Hand?"
(Edit: removed irrelevant reference to Mage Hand Legerdemain.)
The arcane trickster rules do limit your choice of spells.
Misty step is hard to get but possible.
Actually, I wouldn't count Versatile Trickster as "using the mage hand." Unlike Mage Hand Legerdemain, which specifically adds its additional actions alongside those of the spell, Versatile Trickster is worded in a way that makes it seem to be a separate (bonus) action.
Misty step is fully possible to get as an arcane trickster, not hard at all. This thread is discussing use of spells gained at 3rd, 8th, 14th, and 20th level, as those can be from the entire Wizard spell list, which includes misty step.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Harsh, but if that's how you'd rule on it then I'd agree with you calling it "useless" earlier in the thread. Personally I'd rule the other way, based on how many easier ways there still are for an Arcane Trickster to get the same benefit (that's right, "Steady Aim," I'm looking at you...) and I'd have a hard time explaining to a player, narratively, what their character is doing with that bonus action if not using the mage hand that they are required to have in position for it. I know that probably sounds like I'm trying to pick a fight - I'm not - but I just don't see it. Based on the conflicting arguments I see elsewhere on the web, it's probably something worth asking individual DMs about if you're playing an Arcane Trickster at their table.
Even if the way you rule it is true, you still have to use your action to cast it, it only lasts a minute, and it can't be further than 30 feet from you. It's useless either way.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)