Our group (3 players) is about to begin an Out of The Abyss campaign and i want a PC for filling the front line gap -2nd player has already opted for a wizard PC and the 3rd player is between ranger and warlock. PHB, SCAG and XGTE are only permitted. We will start at level 1 and we expect to play till level 10 or 11.
The DM suggested all characters to have Darkvision -although that's not 100% obligatory. I agree, since i guess it will be difficult to survive with normal vision in a difficult Underdark campaign. So Half-Orc and Mountain Dwarf options are probably the most preferable, at the moment. I would love, though, a Variant Human, due to picking up Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master feat from Level 1. I want to create a character heavily based on Great Weapon Master.
Now, both Fighter and Barbarian seem quite interesting and solid choices for that role. I have never played either of them.
Thematically, Barb is more appealing & i am hugely attracted to Rages, Unarmored Defenceand Reckless Attack special feats, and Totem of Bear seems to me an amazing boost to survivability but as far as i have read:
i) Barb skill tree lacks Extra Attacks and Ability Score Improvements (comparing to Fighter).
ii) Barb is heavily based on long rests. I highly doubt if we will have often that luxury going through this campaign.
Fighters offer the sweet Second Wind and a Fighting Style from early on, and Action Surge looks pretty important for early levels plus the frequent ASIs and the Extra Attacks. Plus they are more short rest based, so their feats will be used theoretically more often. However,
i) I don't like very much any of the offered Martial Archetypes of the class (maybe Battlemaster is a bit better, but i 'm not really impressed with the Maneuvers in general and its 7th level ability looks really situational. I won't have chance to get really further than 10 levels)
ii) Fighters other than Second Wind do not seem to have many survival tricks on their sleeves for being on the front line, while Barbs gain resistances with Bear totem.
I have strongly considered Multiclassing between the two, seems a quite interesting path, but i don't know which class i will start with and when i will do the transition to the other one and for how long. Any suggestions?
Considering myself as a relatively new player to 5e campaigns, please correct any false assumptions or thoughts of these described above. Thanx a lot! :)
I don't want to spoil the module for you, and I'm not going to decide what the best melee class is, but I want to point two things out:
The distances you have to travel in Out of the Abyss, if played as the module describes, require up to 30-40 days between locations. The module shouldn't throw more than one or two encounters between long rests, if any at all for that matter (it's supposed to be random). So there will be plenty of opportunities for long rests.
If played per the module, your character will need to be able to do more than JUST fight to survive. People that make barbarian characters go all in on combat (STR, CON, DEX) and ignore the other stats and their related skills. But the beginning of the module is about surviving with nothing and if all you can do is fight, you're going to be useless to your party 75% of the time.
Alternatively, since you're starting at low levels... Take a half-elf, dump your extra +1s into Wisdom and build a Circle of the Moon druid. By second level you can wildshape as a bonus action and turn into a brown bear, dire wolf, or even a giant spider with web, climbing ability, darkvision, AND blindsight. Your wildshapes are essentially bonus temporary HP every time you shift.
Heck, to help the rest of your party, at that point you can cast faerie fire with your action, then shift into a form of your choice with your bonus action, and go to town on your next turn. Super effective in melee at low levels.
Another thought - as an alternate to faerie fire, you're in tunnels. Crowd control by dropping moonbeam at tunnel entrances and then fight. Druids are super versatile.
Between fighter and barbarian, I say go barbarian. Fighter doesn't get its second extra attack until level 11 (which you will be at the end of the campaign if ever).
By level 10, both Barbarian and Fighter will have two attacks available to them. The fighter gains more attacks, with their third at level 11 so if you go straight fighter you may see that by the end of the game, but for the most part both barbarian and fighter have the same base offensive potential.
Barbarians are less gear dependent and have greater combat mobility, able to rely on their Rage for damage reduction and bonus power, and the Bear totem is well known as overpowered hogwash. You'd gain an ASI at 4 and another at 8, giving you two chances to boost or alter your barbarian's power. The barbarian's rage count is limited, however; frequent smaller fights, should they occur, would force you to choose when to rage and when to fight normally, and a barbarian that is not in their rage is a barbarian which tends to be distinctly inferior to most fighters, given their lack of a fighting style and Second Wind/Action Surge for emergencies.
Fighters are much more gear-dependent than barbarians, requiring armor and weapons before most of their class features function properly and never gaining any extra combat speed. Given the fact that you're shooting specifically for a Great Weapon user, one of the big advantages of the fighter - being able to work off Dex rather than Strength - goes out the window and you become dependent on finding hefty armor. That could well be quite problematic in the Underdark, where heavy armor is potentially quite difficult to locate. That said, the Defense fighting style partially offsets the lack of a shield inherent to Great Weapon combat, and a fighter gains three ASIs rather than two over the course of a level 10 campaign. That lets you take Great Weapon Master and still get whatever two bonus options the barbarian would've gotten. Plus, Action Surge is often a fight-saver; getting one extra action when you need it most tends to be clutch.
Either one could work. It depends mostly on how dependent you want to be on the DM's generosity and how much you want to lean on short rests. Or how much you want an extra ASI.
Between fighter and barbarian, I say go barbarian. Fighter doesn't get its second extra attack until level 11 (which you will be at the end of the campaign if ever).
Thank you so much guys for the really useful comments.
@Maestrino and @DxJxCthere's a possibility to have a brand new player to the party and to DnD, as well. This guy has shown interest to a Moon Druid character so i don't want to do another character with any dip of that class. However, the wood elf is an interesting choice. Now i have noticed about that sweet speed bonus and the rest of stuff he has.
@Kerrec these are 2 excellent remarks, thanx. Having a few long rests is big relief but now with what you 've said i am rethinking the whole thing.
What if i multi a fighter with rogue? Rogue surely offers a ton of utility out of combat and i guess in a dark and restricted environment full of traps and unknown mysteries (that's how i have imagined it) a rogue seems to me a vital role to the party. Yeah, in that case Great Weapon Master is out of the table but i can count on constantly rising numbers of Sneak Attacks. Still want though to keep a small dose of tankey abilities for holding the front line myself (in case the Moon Druid player never shows up). Also, regarding this multiclass, shall i begin with fighter or rogue? Shall i insist more on fighter or rogue? Would you recommend more focus on ASI/feats or in steady rise of SA numbers, both regarding damage purposes?
Frankly? If you want a rogue but also a tank, look into Swashbuckler. Swashbucklers make excellent skirmishers given their ability to easily activate their own Sneak Attacks and their ability to flip bird fingers to most AoO's, and with Moderately Armored as your 4th-level ASI you can grab a shield and wear any interesting medium armor your party might find. Best of all, at 9th level (around when you'll be fighting the worst stuff the DM has ready), you get a straight-up taunt. Persuasion vs. enemy Insight, and if they lose the contest they have disadvantage on attacks against anything but you, they can't make AoO's against anyone but you (and you can avoid those easily with Fancy Footwork), and also they cry a little bit. Now admittedly, your dumbass party can screw that up by damaging the thing, but if they know how your shit works you could isolate a single enemy and basically force it to fight you and only you.
A wood elf Swashbuckler with the extra movement from Welf and their situational improved sneakery would be great. Alternatively, given what you're playing? Drow make amazing Swashbucklers. Heh, you'd have to figure out why this guy is throwing in with the party instead of his/her own kind, but Drow get an extra +1 to your Charisma on top of the elfy +2 Dex, they get Super Darkvision, and they get a once-a-rest Faerie Fire spell you can use to make everything within twenty feet of a target point free Sneak Attack bait no matter what else the party does. Yeah, you'd probably have to deal with Sunlight Sensitivity later, but for the Underdark-y sections of the game, a drow Swashbuckler would be a championship pick.
You really help me man! So Yurei1453 you strongly recommend this multiclass... both subraces are excellent suggestions, although i don't know if my DM allows Underdark subraces. You suggest to start from Rogue right? two weapon fighting or sword n' board gameplay, given that i have to play frontline hitting but still having to keep myself alive?
I don't know if I'd even bother multiclassing. Straight Swashbuckler is pretty damn good. If I did MC, it'd be a Rogue start for the extra skill proficiency (4 as opposed to 3, from a much more useful list) and immediate Expertise, then dip one und precisely vun level of fighter for the armor/shield proficiencies and the fighting style. Said fighting style would probably be Defense, because +1AC is more impactful for a frontliner brawler with a Sneak Attack than +2 einhander damage is and you don't want two-weapon fighting anyways. That gets in the way of a shield, which is half the reason to be a fighter in this case.
You'll need to decide if you're trying to prioritize bullheaded frontline sturdiness above all else, or if you want to be sturdy enough to hold the line for a few rounds while your casters blast stuff down. Swashbuckler, with or without a level of Fighter, would be in the 'sturdy enough' camp and would depend more on avoiding huge blows than meat-tanking them, but in return you'd gain hefty Sneak Attack bonuses and a plethora of handy skills, becoming significantly more useful out of combat. If you think your party has that covered, though? Mainline fighter or barbarian - or fighter/barbarian - has more HP and abilities designed specifically to let them stand in place and slug it out.
Swashbucklers are stick-and-move experts that can take a punch. The others are a lot less talented, but can (attempt to) take multiple punches. Up to you which way you want to go.
You might want to consider a vhuman gloomstalker ranger. You can still get PAM at level 1, take defense fighting style for +1 AC. You'll get medium armor, with 14 dex your AC should be solid (17 off the top of my head). D10 hit dice, some magic, infravision at level 3 and features designed for the underdark. Hunter's mark can activate twice a round, assuming you use your bonus after it's up to attack with the butt end of the weapon. Your other spells are no slouch either, goodberry might be very helpful to have and you can heal in a pinch.
Something else to factor in, if you have hunter's mark on a target that moves into your reach, it will trigger on PAM's opportunity attack when it moves into range.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Alternatively, since you're starting at low levels... Take a half-elf, dump your extra +1s into Wisdom and build a Circle of the Moon druid. By second level you can wildshape as a bonus action and turn into a brown bear, dire wolf, or even a giant spider with web, climbing ability, darkvision, AND blindsight. Your wildshapes are essentially bonus temporary HP every time you shift.
Our group (3 players) is about to begin an Out of The Abyss campaign and i want a PC for filling the front line gap -2nd player has already opted for a wizard PC and the 3rd player is between ranger and warlock. PHB, SCAG and XGTE are only permitted. We will start at level 1 and we expect to play till level 10 or 11.
The DM suggested all characters to have Darkvision -although that's not 100% obligatory. I agree, since i guess it will be difficult to survive with normal vision in a difficult Underdark campaign. So Half-Orc and Mountain Dwarf options are probably the most preferable, at the moment. I would love, though, a Variant Human, due to picking up Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master feat from Level 1. I want to create a character heavily based on Great Weapon Master.
Now, both Fighter and Barbarian seem quite interesting and solid choices for that role. I have never played either of them.
Thematically, Barb is more appealing & i am hugely attracted to Rages, Unarmored Defence and Reckless Attack special feats, and Totem of Bear seems to me an amazing boost to survivability but as far as i have read:
i) Barb skill tree lacks Extra Attacks and Ability Score Improvements (comparing to Fighter).
ii) Barb is heavily based on long rests. I highly doubt if we will have often that luxury going through this campaign.
Fighters offer the sweet Second Wind and a Fighting Style from early on, and Action Surge looks pretty important for early levels plus the frequent ASIs and the Extra Attacks. Plus they are more short rest based, so their feats will be used theoretically more often. However,
i) I don't like very much any of the offered Martial Archetypes of the class (maybe Battlemaster is a bit better, but i 'm not really impressed with the Maneuvers in general and its 7th level ability looks really situational. I won't have chance to get really further than 10 levels)
ii) Fighters other than Second Wind do not seem to have many survival tricks on their sleeves for being on the front line, while Barbs gain resistances with Bear totem.
I have strongly considered Multiclassing between the two, seems a quite interesting path, but i don't know which class i will start with and when i will do the transition to the other one and for how long. Any suggestions?
Considering myself as a relatively new player to 5e campaigns, please correct any false assumptions or thoughts of these described above. Thanx a lot! :)
I don't want to spoil the module for you, and I'm not going to decide what the best melee class is, but I want to point two things out:
Alternatively, since you're starting at low levels... Take a half-elf, dump your extra +1s into Wisdom and build a Circle of the Moon druid. By second level you can wildshape as a bonus action and turn into a brown bear, dire wolf, or even a giant spider with web, climbing ability, darkvision, AND blindsight. Your wildshapes are essentially bonus temporary HP every time you shift.
Heck, to help the rest of your party, at that point you can cast faerie fire with your action, then shift into a form of your choice with your bonus action, and go to town on your next turn. Super effective in melee at low levels.
Another thought - as an alternate to faerie fire, you're in tunnels. Crowd control by dropping moonbeam at tunnel entrances and then fight. Druids are super versatile.
Between fighter and barbarian, I say go barbarian. Fighter doesn't get its second extra attack until level 11 (which you will be at the end of the campaign if ever).
Half-elf can't put both +1s into the same ability. Druid is a good idea though.
By level 10, both Barbarian and Fighter will have two attacks available to them. The fighter gains more attacks, with their third at level 11 so if you go straight fighter you may see that by the end of the game, but for the most part both barbarian and fighter have the same base offensive potential.
Barbarians are less gear dependent and have greater combat mobility, able to rely on their Rage for damage reduction and bonus power, and the Bear totem is well known as overpowered hogwash. You'd gain an ASI at 4 and another at 8, giving you two chances to boost or alter your barbarian's power. The barbarian's rage count is limited, however; frequent smaller fights, should they occur, would force you to choose when to rage and when to fight normally, and a barbarian that is not in their rage is a barbarian which tends to be distinctly inferior to most fighters, given their lack of a fighting style and Second Wind/Action Surge for emergencies.
Fighters are much more gear-dependent than barbarians, requiring armor and weapons before most of their class features function properly and never gaining any extra combat speed. Given the fact that you're shooting specifically for a Great Weapon user, one of the big advantages of the fighter - being able to work off Dex rather than Strength - goes out the window and you become dependent on finding hefty armor. That could well be quite problematic in the Underdark, where heavy armor is potentially quite difficult to locate. That said, the Defense fighting style partially offsets the lack of a shield inherent to Great Weapon combat, and a fighter gains three ASIs rather than two over the course of a level 10 campaign. That lets you take Great Weapon Master and still get whatever two bonus options the barbarian would've gotten. Plus, Action Surge is often a fight-saver; getting one extra action when you need it most tends to be clutch.
Either one could work. It depends mostly on how dependent you want to be on the DM's generosity and how much you want to lean on short rests. Or how much you want an extra ASI.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
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Ah, you're right. What is it that gets a WIS boost, wood elf? That might work.
Thank you so much guys for the really useful comments.
@Maestrino and @DxJxC there's a possibility to have a brand new player to the party and to DnD, as well. This guy has shown interest to a Moon Druid character so i don't want to do another character with any dip of that class. However, the wood elf is an interesting choice. Now i have noticed about that sweet speed bonus and the rest of stuff he has.
@Kerrec these are 2 excellent remarks, thanx. Having a few long rests is big relief but now with what you 've said i am rethinking the whole thing.
What if i multi a fighter with rogue? Rogue surely offers a ton of utility out of combat and i guess in a dark and restricted environment full of traps and unknown mysteries (that's how i have imagined it) a rogue seems to me a vital role to the party. Yeah, in that case Great Weapon Master is out of the table but i can count on constantly rising numbers of Sneak Attacks. Still want though to keep a small dose of tankey abilities for holding the front line myself (in case the Moon Druid player never shows up). Also, regarding this multiclass, shall i begin with fighter or rogue? Shall i insist more on fighter or rogue? Would you recommend more focus on ASI/feats or in steady rise of SA numbers, both regarding damage purposes?
Frankly? If you want a rogue but also a tank, look into Swashbuckler. Swashbucklers make excellent skirmishers given their ability to easily activate their own Sneak Attacks and their ability to flip bird fingers to most AoO's, and with Moderately Armored as your 4th-level ASI you can grab a shield and wear any interesting medium armor your party might find. Best of all, at 9th level (around when you'll be fighting the worst stuff the DM has ready), you get a straight-up taunt. Persuasion vs. enemy Insight, and if they lose the contest they have disadvantage on attacks against anything but you, they can't make AoO's against anyone but you (and you can avoid those easily with Fancy Footwork), and also they cry a little bit. Now admittedly, your dumbass party can screw that up by damaging the thing, but if they know how your shit works you could isolate a single enemy and basically force it to fight you and only you.
A wood elf Swashbuckler with the extra movement from Welf and their situational improved sneakery would be great. Alternatively, given what you're playing? Drow make amazing Swashbucklers. Heh, you'd have to figure out why this guy is throwing in with the party instead of his/her own kind, but Drow get an extra +1 to your Charisma on top of the elfy +2 Dex, they get Super Darkvision, and they get a once-a-rest Faerie Fire spell you can use to make everything within twenty feet of a target point free Sneak Attack bait no matter what else the party does. Yeah, you'd probably have to deal with Sunlight Sensitivity later, but for the Underdark-y sections of the game, a drow Swashbuckler would be a championship pick.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
You really help me man! So Yurei1453 you strongly recommend this multiclass... both subraces are excellent suggestions, although i don't know if my DM allows Underdark subraces. You suggest to start from Rogue right? two weapon fighting or sword n' board gameplay, given that i have to play frontline hitting but still having to keep myself alive?
I don't know if I'd even bother multiclassing. Straight Swashbuckler is pretty damn good. If I did MC, it'd be a Rogue start for the extra skill proficiency (4 as opposed to 3, from a much more useful list) and immediate Expertise, then dip one und precisely vun level of fighter for the armor/shield proficiencies and the fighting style. Said fighting style would probably be Defense, because +1AC is more impactful for a frontliner brawler with a Sneak Attack than +2 einhander damage is and you don't want two-weapon fighting anyways. That gets in the way of a shield, which is half the reason to be a fighter in this case.
You'll need to decide if you're trying to prioritize bullheaded frontline sturdiness above all else, or if you want to be sturdy enough to hold the line for a few rounds while your casters blast stuff down. Swashbuckler, with or without a level of Fighter, would be in the 'sturdy enough' camp and would depend more on avoiding huge blows than meat-tanking them, but in return you'd gain hefty Sneak Attack bonuses and a plethora of handy skills, becoming significantly more useful out of combat. If you think your party has that covered, though? Mainline fighter or barbarian - or fighter/barbarian - has more HP and abilities designed specifically to let them stand in place and slug it out.
Swashbucklers are stick-and-move experts that can take a punch. The others are a lot less talented, but can (attempt to) take multiple punches. Up to you which way you want to go.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
You might want to consider a vhuman gloomstalker ranger. You can still get PAM at level 1, take defense fighting style for +1 AC. You'll get medium armor, with 14 dex your AC should be solid (17 off the top of my head). D10 hit dice, some magic, infravision at level 3 and features designed for the underdark. Hunter's mark can activate twice a round, assuming you use your bonus after it's up to attack with the butt end of the weapon. Your other spells are no slouch either, goodberry might be very helpful to have and you can heal in a pinch.
Something else to factor in, if you have hunter's mark on a target that moves into your reach, it will trigger on PAM's opportunity attack when it moves into range.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Alternatively, since you're starting at low levels... Take a half-elf, dump your extra +1s into Wisdom and build a Circle of the Moon druid. By second level you can wildshape as a bonus action and turn into a brown bear, dire wolf, or even a giant spider with web, climbing ability, darkvision, AND blindsight. Your wildshapes are essentially bonus temporary HP every time you shift.