I always liked that the warlock in 5e has patron multiplied by boon build options.
How do people where think about doing something similar with the bard Where you would chose a song and a subclass ? So songs of restoration would be a option you could chose but maybe you want something else: Songs of Battle ( adds offensive buff spells) Songs of protection ( adds defensive buff spells)
having song x subclass build options right in the PHB.
I would say think of it this way. Those are free spells, you still have the ability to pick all of your other spells as you see fit ( within the school categories). These spells were universally considered mandatory type spells to be a good bard. Now ,they do not count against your total number of spells prepared per day. Call it a win and move on.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
One problem is you get that feature before you choose a subclass.
But when I saw it, my first thought was that it helps take the pressure off the idea that you need a cleric or other dedicated healer. The bard, by default now, will be good enough in most situations.
The point of the Songs of Restoration was to shore up the healing and restoration options that Bards used to have in their spell list that didnt really fit anymore with their move to 'select spells of school x,y, z from the arcane spell list'. Because otherwise All bards would have lost one of their core identities as a support caster.
That being said, if it makes sense for your specific bard character then working with your DM to swap out the spells on that list for other options would certainly be the way to go. For myself I had an old bard character that would have traded this for a bunch of Warlock type spells because that would have made more sense for him as a character. However I would not want that to be a default option in the PHB as it would create complication where their just doesn't need to be.
But of all the things on the Bard list, this replacing song of rest is a 100% upgrade.
in 1dnd currently, we cannot choose more than 4 first level spells. this in conjunction with songs of rest having no options means things are slightly more restrictive. this would require more conversations about "overlap spells" (water breathing, temp hp, protection from .... ) I am not sure if it would be fun or not. I will have to play and process it.
My gut reaction is 1dnd is too scared of class choices.(bard and ranger both suffer) I think at least two bard spell lists (song of restoration+ 1 more) would be good especially if it gets some of the iconic losses back.
in 1dnd currently, we cannot choose more than 4 first level spells. this in conjunction with songs of rest having no options means things are slightly more restrictive. this would require more conversations about "overlap spells" (water breathing, temp hp, protection from .... ) I am not sure if it would be fun or not. I will have to play and process it.
My gut reaction is 1dnd is too scared of class choices.(bard and ranger both suffer) I think at least two bard spell lists (song of restoration+ 1 more) would be good especially if it gets some of the iconic losses back.
....what?
Just so that we are all on the same page, as thats a big dense document.
New Bard can prepare 4 1st level spells at the end of a long rest. The old bard had to choose their spells at level up and then were more-or-less stuck with that choice. Of those choices they may have felt obligated to take Healing Word, regardless of how they wanted to build their character. The new Song of Restoration removes that obligation entirely by giving it to them for free.
Additionally we have Magic Initiate, a level 1 feat that adds another spell of any school with no restriction and can be cast using Bard spell slots. Additionally many races have innate spellcasting using the stat of your choice and can provide several additional complimentary spells that can, again, be cast with your spell slots. (Fire Genasi Bard seems like a strong choice with those offensive fire spells)
The only thing restrictive about it is that you cant move your spells from 1st to 2nd level to unlock more of those once the first level spells start to lose their luster. But I don't think that was what you were referring to and I think thats generally not that big a hit considering Bards got Prepared spells as a trade off.
I agree with this. As a swords bard boi I was very disheartened to see the new bard be forced into a healer role. 5e bard was super versatile when it comes to healing but One's seems to be forcing the archetype way too much
I agree with this. As a swords bard boi I was very disheartened to see the new bard be forced into a healer role. 5e bard was super versatile when it comes to healing but One's seems to be forcing the archetype way too much
But....you're not forced into anything. They took away the Song of Rest ability, which adds a d6 when someone used hit die to recover during a short rest and gave you Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Mass healing word, freedom of movement, and greater restoration for FREE.
Whether you use any of those spells EVER is completely up to you. This isnt decreasing your customizability and options, it's increasing them by removing what some people might think are mandatory choices.
Now if you let someone roll that third death save when you could have just cast healing word and still stabby stabbed with your sword that's on you, not the Bard Class.
I agree with this. As a swords bard boi I was very disheartened to see the new bard be forced into a healer role. 5e bard was super versatile when it comes to healing but One's seems to be forcing the archetype way too much
But....you're not forced into anything. They took away the Song of Rest ability, which adds a d6 when someone used hit die to recover during a short rest and gave you Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Mass healing word, freedom of movement, and greater restoration for FREE.
Whether you use any of those spells EVER is completely up to you. This isnt decreasing your customizability and options, it's increasing them by removing what some people might think are mandatory choices.
Now if you let someone roll that third death save when you could have just cast healing word and still stabby stabbed with your sword that's on you, not the Bard Class.
Bards are forced into an archetype which isn't always their prior archetype, that's the issue here. Weapon bards have always been a thing in 5e, and they're removing that, as well as many other archetypical bards such as the customizable lore bard's spell focus and forcing the healer archetype onto them. There isn't really much which I think other subclasses cover that replace the niches lore and swords bard cover.
And the healing word/death save comparison proves my point entirely... It's now ONLY optimal to spec into healing as a bard rather than the other archetypes which existed prior
in 1dnd currently, we cannot choose more than 4 first level spells. this in conjunction with songs of rest having no options means things are slightly more restrictive. this would require more conversations about "overlap spells" (water breathing, temp hp, protection from .... ) I am not sure if it would be fun or not. I will have to play and process it.
My gut reaction is 1dnd is too scared of class choices.(bard and ranger both suffer) I think at least two bard spell lists (song of restoration+ 1 more) would be good especially if it gets some of the iconic losses back.
Remember that this is a playtest thing. You can suggest in the survey so they have more options in the "song of ..." feature. But right know the Spellcasting feat ure for Bards its very nice, since you can change your prepared spells every Long Rest, thats huge. My only suggestion with these is having the magical secrets feature earlier (the 2 options as are defined are fine, it is still a hole lot of customization every long rest). Free healing is never a bad option.
Now if you let someone roll that third death save when you could have just cast healing word and still stabby stabbed with your sword that's on you, not the Bard Class.
If you metagame to know how many death saves your buddy is on, that's on you.
I think the UA is indicative of a general trend towards less player choice, which is the same thing as saying a trend towards less fun.
I think it would be better to be able to swap them out like pacts in Warlock as mentioned. This isn't strictly better than 5eBards, because Song of Rest was free; this isn't. They're free in terms of prepared spells, but you still have to expend spell slots to power them, although I'd agree that it's generally better.
However, ignoring 5e, I think it would be better to have them function like pacts. The way it is presented, makes every Bard feel like a healer. There's a reason why Clerics have their free prepared spells dependent on subclass - it allows you to change the tone of your spells to suit the tone of your character. As such, I think they should work like pacts where you pick the set, and there are several sets to choose from (eg healer, offensive, etc) or somehow link it to subclass.
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I always liked that the warlock in 5e has patron multiplied by boon build options.
How do people where think about doing something similar with the bard Where you would chose a song and a subclass ?
So songs of restoration would be a option you could chose but maybe you want something else:
Songs of Battle ( adds offensive buff spells)
Songs of protection ( adds defensive buff spells)
having song x subclass build options right in the PHB.
I would say think of it this way. Those are free spells, you still have the ability to pick all of your other spells as you see fit ( within the school categories). These spells were universally considered mandatory type spells to be a good bard. Now ,they do not count against your total number of spells prepared per day. Call it a win and move on.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
One problem is you get that feature before you choose a subclass.
But when I saw it, my first thought was that it helps take the pressure off the idea that you need a cleric or other dedicated healer. The bard, by default now, will be good enough in most situations.
The point of the Songs of Restoration was to shore up the healing and restoration options that Bards used to have in their spell list that didnt really fit anymore with their move to 'select spells of school x,y, z from the arcane spell list'. Because otherwise All bards would have lost one of their core identities as a support caster.
That being said, if it makes sense for your specific bard character then working with your DM to swap out the spells on that list for other options would certainly be the way to go. For myself I had an old bard character that would have traded this for a bunch of Warlock type spells because that would have made more sense for him as a character. However I would not want that to be a default option in the PHB as it would create complication where their just doesn't need to be.
But of all the things on the Bard list, this replacing song of rest is a 100% upgrade.
in 1dnd currently, we cannot choose more than 4 first level spells. this in conjunction with songs of rest having no options means things are slightly more restrictive. this would require more conversations about "overlap spells" (water breathing, temp hp, protection from .... ) I am not sure if it would be fun or not. I will have to play and process it.
My gut reaction is 1dnd is too scared of class choices.(bard and ranger both suffer) I think at least two bard spell lists (song of restoration+ 1 more) would be good especially if it gets some of the iconic losses back.
Yeah it would be nice if there were other song options.
In 5e you could build as a healing bard, or you could build in other ways. In 5.5e you're forced to be a healing bard.
....what?
Just so that we are all on the same page, as thats a big dense document.
New Bard can prepare 4 1st level spells at the end of a long rest. The old bard had to choose their spells at level up and then were more-or-less stuck with that choice. Of those choices they may have felt obligated to take Healing Word, regardless of how they wanted to build their character. The new Song of Restoration removes that obligation entirely by giving it to them for free.
Additionally we have Magic Initiate, a level 1 feat that adds another spell of any school with no restriction and can be cast using Bard spell slots. Additionally many races have innate spellcasting using the stat of your choice and can provide several additional complimentary spells that can, again, be cast with your spell slots. (Fire Genasi Bard seems like a strong choice with those offensive fire spells)
The only thing restrictive about it is that you cant move your spells from 1st to 2nd level to unlock more of those once the first level spells start to lose their luster. But I don't think that was what you were referring to and I think thats generally not that big a hit considering Bards got Prepared spells as a trade off.
I agree with this. As a swords bard boi I was very disheartened to see the new bard be forced into a healer role.
5e bard was super versatile when it comes to healing but One's seems to be forcing the archetype way too much
But....you're not forced into anything. They took away the Song of Rest ability, which adds a d6 when someone used hit die to recover during a short rest and gave you Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Mass healing word, freedom of movement, and greater restoration for FREE.
Whether you use any of those spells EVER is completely up to you. This isnt decreasing your customizability and options, it's increasing them by removing what some people might think are mandatory choices.
Now if you let someone roll that third death save when you could have just cast healing word and still stabby stabbed with your sword that's on you, not the Bard Class.
Bards are forced into an archetype which isn't always their prior archetype, that's the issue here.
Weapon bards have always been a thing in 5e, and they're removing that, as well as many other archetypical bards such as the customizable lore bard's spell focus and forcing the healer archetype onto them. There isn't really much which I think other subclasses cover that replace the niches lore and swords bard cover.
And the healing word/death save comparison proves my point entirely... It's now ONLY optimal to spec into healing as a bard rather than the other archetypes which existed prior
Remember that this is a playtest thing. You can suggest in the survey so they have more options in the "song of ..." feature.
But right know the Spellcasting feat ure for Bards its very nice, since you can change your prepared spells every Long Rest, thats huge. My only suggestion with these is having the magical secrets feature earlier (the 2 options as are defined are fine, it is still a hole lot of customization every long rest). Free healing is never a bad option.
If you metagame to know how many death saves your buddy is on, that's on you.
I think the UA is indicative of a general trend towards less player choice, which is the same thing as saying a trend towards less fun.
What other ways became inaccessible now?
I think it would be better to be able to swap them out like pacts in Warlock as mentioned. This isn't strictly better than 5eBards, because Song of Rest was free; this isn't. They're free in terms of prepared spells, but you still have to expend spell slots to power them, although I'd agree that it's generally better.
However, ignoring 5e, I think it would be better to have them function like pacts. The way it is presented, makes every Bard feel like a healer. There's a reason why Clerics have their free prepared spells dependent on subclass - it allows you to change the tone of your spells to suit the tone of your character. As such, I think they should work like pacts where you pick the set, and there are several sets to choose from (eg healer, offensive, etc) or somehow link it to subclass.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.