Has anyone else noticed the massive nerf to Guidance?
Although they've changed it to a Reaction spell (since a lot of groups were probably using it this way anyway), they've also added the following limitation:
Once a creature rolls the die for this Spell, that creature can’t benefit from the Spell again until the creature finishes a Long Rest.
Jeremy Crawford literally talked about this in one of the videos, Guidance was not meant to be this spell that you spam on every ability check, that was too much for a cantrip and so they changed it to A) be a reaction and B) to once per day per character. Making it a reaction means it flows better with say social encounters, how did you know you needed guidance for that persuasion roll? A bit odd, so the change makes it fit in better to some of the common usages of Guidance.
frankly it’s such a massive nerf there is no purpose for it being a cantrip. If they wanted to fix something like this they should have started with the resistance cantrip. I think a DM would have a much easier time limiting guidance than finding a way for resistance to even be used.
I'm personally a fan of it, if solely because it just flows so much better. 87% of the time, Guidance is an absolutely waste of time. Unless you were casting guidance on each player at your table more than 8 times a day, this will probably net you more successes. On top of that, it stacks with other things like Enhance Ability now.
There's also the fact that if you are attempting to play by the rules, Guidance very frequently has situations where you want it, but can't have it. The touch requirement, concentration requirement, and timing issues often get in the way. Those are all gone now. You also can now use it to prop up a Counterspell in combat, which is occasionally going to result in massive impact that the spell didn't used to bring.
I can tell you that for my current character, this will 100% be a buff.
I like the change to Guidance in general, but I also think that Bobby's idea of making it work until it turns a failure into a success is great! That way, everybody can benefit from it equally instead of some people wasting their once/day thing on nothing.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I can tell you that for my current character, this will 100% be a buff.
It would nerf mine so hard I'd demand the DM let me drop the spell for some other cantrip and then I'd have to think hard about what to take, as I'm build around Guidance, including its current limitations (e.g. I overcame the range limit and most of the difficulties involved in using it in social situations).
I can tell you that for my current character, this will 100% be a buff.
It would nerf mine so hard I'd demand the DM let me drop the spell for some other cantrip and then I'd have to think hard about what to take, as I'm build around Guidance, including its current limitations (e.g. I overcame the range limit and most of the difficulties involved in using it in social situations).
How many checks per adventuring day do you currently get guidance on? My table just doesn't roll 30+ high-impact Guidance-eligible checks per day.
I'm also curious as to how you overcome the social issues. Most of my NPCs don't like when people are casting spells mid conversation.
I think it should at least work a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier per long rest. Right now, I don't see it is worth taking. Either that or remove requirement that it has to be done when someone fails an ability check to be gone, so that it can be used on initiative. A once per long rest boost to initiative could be useful.
I think it should at least work a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier per long rest. Right now, I don't see it is worth taking. Either that or remove requirement that it has to be done when someone fails an ability check to be gone, so that it can be used on initiative. A once per long rest boost to initiative could be useful.
I suspect the designers don't want it to work for initiative. I also think that once per day per target may be a bit too restrictive, and I think that once per (the caster's) proficiency bonus per day per target might be more reasonable (although a bit of a pain to track). Another possibility might be the once per day per target is only used up if it turns a failure into a success.
I don't like the extra administration are we going to add a check box to the character sheet to keep track if you can be effected by guidance or not ? Because not all sessions neatly end on a long rest.
Is there some other mechanic we can come up with that would limit how often guidance gets used ? Thinking about it myself I can't come up with a really good one.
Here are some not so good ones : 1) cooldown on the guidance cantrip, if you cast this cantrip you can not cast it again until at least an hour has passed. 2) guidance can only be used on a target that has at least 1 healing hitdice, if the d4 turns the result of the check into a success the target loses one hitdice. 2) you can only cast guidance while you have at least 1 healing hitdice, if the d4 turns the result of the check into a success the caster expands one hitdice.
I don't like the extra administration are we going to add a check box to the character sheet to keep track if you can be effected by guidance or not ? Because not all sessions neatly end on a long rest.
Is there some other mechanic we can come up with that would limit how often guidance gets used ? Thinking about it myself I can't come up with a really good one.
Here are some not so good ones : 1) cooldown on the guidance cantrip, if you cast this cantrip you can not cast it again until at least an hour has passed. 2) guidance can only be used on a target that has at least 1 healing hitdice, if the d4 turns the result of the check into a success the target loses one hitdice. 2) you can only cast guidance while you have at least 1 healing hitdice, if the d4 turns the result of the check into a success the caster expands one hitdice.
Maybe have guidance use a healing hit die but also let the target heal with it.
I mean, there's already a mechanic that limits how often a spell can get used, and it's called "spell slots." If they don't want Guidance to be spammable, they could always make it a first level spell (perhaps bumping it up to a d6 in the process).
I like the change to a reaction, it addresses a lot of the complaints and confusion around the timing and use of the spell. I can also understand the desire not to enable people to benefit from it on every single failed check. The problem is that they've tried to fix that by adding frequency restrictions, which doesn't mesh with the idea of cantrips. Adding additional bookkeeping or timekeeping requirements is less than ideal, but it's hard to see how else they can balance it while still keeping Guidance as a cantrip. I still favor once per short rest as the limit, as I think that "have you gotten it since the last rest?" is usually a simpler question than "how much time has passed since you last got it?" to answer, and doesn't require adding tick boxes or the like.
Our group doesn't have an issue with it. We don't have enough applicable checks fail by 1-4 in an adventuring day for it to likely be an issue. Maybe it's because we were used to playing before cantrips even existed that having one be limited that way doesn't seem like a harsh balance.
And the once per long rest part is fairly easy to keep track of. Anything else would feel over-record-keepy for a cantrip. If you really need it that much, just roll better. ;)
I mean, there's already a mechanic that limits how often a spell can get used, and it's called "spell slots." If they don't want Guidance to be spammable, they could always make it a first level spell (perhaps bumping it up to a d6 in the process).
I like the change to a reaction, it addresses a lot of the complaints and confusion around the timing and use of the spell. I can also understand the desire not to enable people to benefit from it on every single failed check. The problem is that they've tried to fix that by adding frequency restrictions, which doesn't mesh with the idea of cantrips. Adding additional bookkeeping or timekeeping requirements is less than ideal, but it's hard to see how else they can balance it while still keeping Guidance as a cantrip. I still favor once per short rest as the limit, as I think that "have you gotten it since the last rest?" is usually a simpler question than "how much time has passed since you last got it?" to answer, and doesn't require adding tick boxes or the like.
I would not mind it being a first level spell and granting a larger die. Still feel it should be usable on initiative; initiative manipulation should be a valid strategy, especially with the new alert feat. It adds additional depth to the combat system. Plus, it isn't like we don't already do it with Flash of Genius, Emboldening Bond, Bardic Inspiration, and Gift of Alacrity.
Has anyone else noticed the massive nerf to Guidance?
Although they've changed it to a Reaction spell (since a lot of groups were probably using it this way anyway), they've also added the following limitation:
Jeremy Crawford literally talked about this in one of the videos, Guidance was not meant to be this spell that you spam on every ability check, that was too much for a cantrip and so they changed it to A) be a reaction and B) to once per day per character. Making it a reaction means it flows better with say social encounters, how did you know you needed guidance for that persuasion roll? A bit odd, so the change makes it fit in better to some of the common usages of Guidance.
frankly it’s such a massive nerf there is no purpose for it being a cantrip. If they wanted to fix something like this they should have started with the resistance cantrip. I think a DM would have a much easier time limiting guidance than finding a way for resistance to even be used.
I'm personally a fan of it, if solely because it just flows so much better. 87% of the time, Guidance is an absolutely waste of time. Unless you were casting guidance on each player at your table more than 8 times a day, this will probably net you more successes. On top of that, it stacks with other things like Enhance Ability now.
There's also the fact that if you are attempting to play by the rules, Guidance very frequently has situations where you want it, but can't have it. The touch requirement, concentration requirement, and timing issues often get in the way. Those are all gone now. You also can now use it to prop up a Counterspell in combat, which is occasionally going to result in massive impact that the spell didn't used to bring.
I can tell you that for my current character, this will 100% be a buff.
Well at any rate it’s still too limited in number of uses for a cantrip.
it should either have proficiency number of uses or it should be able to target the same creature until tb failure turns into a success.
maybe both.
I like the change to Guidance in general, but I also think that Bobby's idea of making it work until it turns a failure into a success is great! That way, everybody can benefit from it equally instead of some people wasting their once/day thing on nothing.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Great idea, I like it. It's an adequate counterweight to its once-per-day limitation.
It would nerf mine so hard I'd demand the DM let me drop the spell for some other cantrip and then I'd have to think hard about what to take, as I'm build around Guidance, including its current limitations (e.g. I overcame the range limit and most of the difficulties involved in using it in social situations).
How many checks per adventuring day do you currently get guidance on? My table just doesn't roll 30+ high-impact Guidance-eligible checks per day.
I'm also curious as to how you overcome the social issues. Most of my NPCs don't like when people are casting spells mid conversation.
While it needed to be changed the once per day part puts it in the never take category of cantrips, it makes true strike look good.
I think it should at least work a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier per long rest. Right now, I don't see it is worth taking. Either that or remove requirement that it has to be done when someone fails an ability check to be gone, so that it can be used on initiative. A once per long rest boost to initiative could be useful.
I suspect the designers don't want it to work for initiative. I also think that once per day per target may be a bit too restrictive, and I think that once per (the caster's) proficiency bonus per day per target might be more reasonable (although a bit of a pain to track). Another possibility might be the once per day per target is only used up if it turns a failure into a success.
I don't like the extra administration are we going to add a check box to the character sheet to keep track if you can be effected by guidance or not ?
Because not all sessions neatly end on a long rest.
Is there some other mechanic we can come up with that would limit how often guidance gets used ?
Thinking about it myself I can't come up with a really good one.
Here are some not so good ones :
1) cooldown on the guidance cantrip, if you cast this cantrip you can not cast it again until at least an hour has passed.
2) guidance can only be used on a target that has at least 1 healing hitdice, if the d4 turns the result of the check into a success the target loses one hitdice.
2) you can only cast guidance while you have at least 1 healing hitdice, if the d4 turns the result of the check into a success the caster expands one hitdice.
Maybe have guidance use a healing hit die but also let the target heal with it.
I mean, there's already a mechanic that limits how often a spell can get used, and it's called "spell slots." If they don't want Guidance to be spammable, they could always make it a first level spell (perhaps bumping it up to a d6 in the process).
I like the change to a reaction, it addresses a lot of the complaints and confusion around the timing and use of the spell. I can also understand the desire not to enable people to benefit from it on every single failed check. The problem is that they've tried to fix that by adding frequency restrictions, which doesn't mesh with the idea of cantrips. Adding additional bookkeeping or timekeeping requirements is less than ideal, but it's hard to see how else they can balance it while still keeping Guidance as a cantrip. I still favor once per short rest as the limit, as I think that "have you gotten it since the last rest?" is usually a simpler question than "how much time has passed since you last got it?" to answer, and doesn't require adding tick boxes or the like.
Our group doesn't have an issue with it. We don't have enough applicable checks fail by 1-4 in an adventuring day for it to likely be an issue. Maybe it's because we were used to playing before cantrips even existed that having one be limited that way doesn't seem like a harsh balance.
And the once per long rest part is fairly easy to keep track of. Anything else would feel over-record-keepy for a cantrip. If you really need it that much, just roll better. ;)
I would not mind it being a first level spell and granting a larger die. Still feel it should be usable on initiative; initiative manipulation should be a valid strategy, especially with the new alert feat. It adds additional depth to the combat system. Plus, it isn't like we don't already do it with Flash of Genius, Emboldening Bond, Bardic Inspiration, and Gift of Alacrity.
How about limit it to in combat. you have boons and stuff recharging when you roll initiative.
In combat once per person per combat.
Out of combat 1/ person /hour or so.
I hope this rule sticks. I find guidance to be the most annoying spell as a DM