Why find steed is a pal spell/ability ? Everything about it shouts for warlock.> Everything.
Thematically it doesnt make sens for a lvl 5 pala boost, and is is major, added to second attack.. On the other hand on a warlock it would really fit as it is. I can't imagine but any nightmare horse or creature, so adapted to the warlock deck. And I'm no warlock player.
I was just reading precisely every change for the survey including the spell description. And I was asking myself why?
As everyone knows why is the only real source of power.
yeah, i played WoW back in the day too. warlocks here also don't have succubus pets, damage over time, and self harm for spell slots. alas, they trudge on and some even appear to enjoy themselves.
...more seriously, if i were dm to a player that was owed a boon from a powerful npc, yeah why not? I'd totally consider a demon mount. fire hoofprints and on-demand finger snap call. makes other nearby people's eyes glow green with envy too. roll for persuasion!
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Find Steed is literally a class identity feature of Paladin. They can summon in a steed and ride it like a knight/cavalier, which is much more impressing on how their class is meant to be. They are holy warriors and being granted divine mounts is more thematic, like Bellerophon riding Pegasus.
Warlocks are meant to be people who sign contracts with a patron, there is literally nothing thematic about this that relates to Find Steed. Your average warlock should be more interested in teleporting around than riding a creature to do so, they have magical powers, they gain nothing from riding on a creature's back and their deals with the patron, why would they work towards getting something that just doesn't give them any real benefit? If a warlock wants a riding mount, they can just buy one, they certainly aren't riding one into battle tho if they have a choice... So it's really not a thematic fit for warlock what-so-ever. And remember that Patron's usually teach THEIR knowledge to their warlock, how many fiends, fey, horrors and abominations actually ride a mount? almost none of them do.
Now there could be an argument for Cavalier getting access to Find Steed since that entire subclass is meant to be centred around mounts, and find steed actually fixes a few issues for Cavalier, like how to get a mount into a dungeon.
In my opinion find steed and find familiar should be on the primal spell list, where the nature-guys reside. Paladins and wizard could get special access to find steed and find familiar respectively. Warlock om the other hand - I have no idea why they should have steeds any more than rogues.
All I read is conservative argument. No real stuff.
None of u actually read the find steed feature as it is or what ? a fey, demon or celestial mount how would a freakin pal get a fey or a demon mount, while warlock already contract with fey demon or celestial.. Whatever.
All I read is conservative argument. No real stuff.
None of u actually read the find steed feature as it is or what ? a fey, demon or celestial mount how would a freakin pal get a fey or a demon mount, while warlock already contract with fey demon or celestial.. Whatever.
Paladins can be of any alignment. It tracks that their steed would be able to fit with the character concept. An evil paladin would choose a demon, while a neutral paladin might pick a fey.
All I read is conservative argument. No real stuff.
None of u actually read the find steed feature as it is or what ? a fey, demon or celestial mount how would a freakin pal get a fey or a demon mount, while warlock already contract with fey demon or celestial.. Whatever.
This is a very weak argument and shows no real understanding of the paladin oaths at all.
Oath of Devotion is generally going to be more Celestial, Oath of the Ancients is going to be more Fey and Oathbreaker more Demonic but the rest of the oaths it's less clear since they could vary even more, oath of conquest is also likely to be tending towards demonic, oath of vengeance can also go there but they both could also technically go divine, oath of the crown can go with any of them since the crown they swear fealty too could be any of those, it could be a fiend or an archfey, or any other type of being. Oath of the watchers too could go for any of the three, there really is no restrictions here.
Again, back to warlock, literally, there is no argument for them summoning mounts here, you straight up just ignore the point because you don't like it but Warlocks make pacts with patrons, why would they waste their time to learn how to summon a mount when they could instead learn things like dimension door, blink, misty step, thunder step, plane shift or heck, the fly spell. This makes no real sense here, there is no thematic reason that a warlock would want such a mount to begin with, they aren't using lances and they have no ability to protect the mount in battle, the mount would just be a burden in battle. If they want a pack animal, just buy or hire one, it's pretty cheap.
Thematically, in stories where people get mystical mounts come to them, they are never warlocks, they are warriors usually with a strong connection to a god, I already pointed out Bellerophon riding Pegasus.There is Arion, whom was an immortal horse ridden by Hercules, Sleipnir, Odin's 8-legged horse, Grani, the descendent of Sleipnir used by the hero sigurd on advice of Odin... you go through mystical mounts in history and thematically they either belong to gods or are used by heroes chosen by gods, they're much more thematically Paladin, they have literal zero theme match with Warlock, none at all, nada. In terms of the the feature it has always been a PALADIN feature, it is part of their CLASS IDENTITY. Stop trying to steal Paladin's class identity for nonsensical reasons.
I think you've further made a mistake in thinking that Warlocks are the summoning experts, they aren't. School of Conjuration Wizards are the summoning experts, Warlocks are more about forbidden knowledge and gaining power from their patron, which again, most Warlock patrons wouldn't own mounts, fiends rarely do, Archfey wouldn't, Celestial patrons might be "mounts" to begin with like unicorns and take great offence to the idea that a servant would want to ride on the back of a creature similar in shape to itself, the undying and undead are mainly things like liches and vampires, which again aren't really creatures known for using mounts, Great Old Ones... none of the patrons are really going to have forbidden knowledge or powers related to mounts, so it's just really not thematic at all for warlock.
You need a far more compelling argument than that Find Steed is Celestial, Demonic or Fey, if it's really such an issue then that can be removed to keep it paladin, BUT it really isn't a real issue. There is no need to say that Paladin's can't interact with Celestial, Fey or Demonic entities, many of their spells in fact do specifically interact with such creatures. Protection from Evil and Good, Detect Evil and Good, Magic Circle, Banishment & Banishing smite (sends creatures back to their plane of existence), Dispel Evil and Good, Summon Celestial. But let's also remember that the find steed ISN'T actually a Celestial, Fey or Demonic entity, it's a spirit that takes the appearance of one, well Paladin's also get Spirit Shroud. Further too that, Paladin has another feat, Divine Sense (not in UA thankfully) that was all about detecting demonic and celestial targets.
Why find steed is a pal spell/ability ?
Everything about it shouts for warlock.>
Everything.
Thematically it doesnt make sens for a lvl 5 pala boost, and is is major, added to second attack..
On the other hand on a warlock it would really fit as it is.
I can't imagine but any nightmare horse or creature, so adapted to the warlock deck.
And I'm no warlock player.
I was just reading precisely every change for the survey including the spell description.
And I was asking myself why?
As everyone knows why is the only real source of power.
Paladins are knights in shining armor upon their glorious, trusty steed. Warlocks are … not.
And pallys have had them since 1e, well before warlocks existed.
yeah, i played WoW back in the day too. warlocks here also don't have succubus pets, damage over time, and self harm for spell slots. alas, they trudge on and some even appear to enjoy themselves.
...more seriously, if i were dm to a player that was owed a boon from a powerful npc, yeah why not? I'd totally consider a demon mount. fire hoofprints and on-demand finger snap call. makes other nearby people's eyes glow green with envy too. roll for persuasion!
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Find Steed is literally a class identity feature of Paladin. They can summon in a steed and ride it like a knight/cavalier, which is much more impressing on how their class is meant to be. They are holy warriors and being granted divine mounts is more thematic, like Bellerophon riding Pegasus.
Warlocks are meant to be people who sign contracts with a patron, there is literally nothing thematic about this that relates to Find Steed. Your average warlock should be more interested in teleporting around than riding a creature to do so, they have magical powers, they gain nothing from riding on a creature's back and their deals with the patron, why would they work towards getting something that just doesn't give them any real benefit? If a warlock wants a riding mount, they can just buy one, they certainly aren't riding one into battle tho if they have a choice... So it's really not a thematic fit for warlock what-so-ever. And remember that Patron's usually teach THEIR knowledge to their warlock, how many fiends, fey, horrors and abominations actually ride a mount? almost none of them do.
Now there could be an argument for Cavalier getting access to Find Steed since that entire subclass is meant to be centred around mounts, and find steed actually fixes a few issues for Cavalier, like how to get a mount into a dungeon.
In my opinion find steed and find familiar should be on the primal spell list, where the nature-guys reside. Paladins and wizard could get special access to find steed and find familiar respectively. Warlock om the other hand - I have no idea why they should have steeds any more than rogues.
All I read is conservative argument. No real stuff.
None of u actually read the find steed feature as it is or what ?
a fey, demon or celestial mount
how would a freakin pal get a fey or a demon mount, while warlock already contract with fey demon or celestial..
Whatever.
Paladins can be of any alignment. It tracks that their steed would be able to fit with the character concept. An evil paladin would choose a demon, while a neutral paladin might pick a fey.
This is a very weak argument and shows no real understanding of the paladin oaths at all.
Oath of Devotion is generally going to be more Celestial, Oath of the Ancients is going to be more Fey and Oathbreaker more Demonic but the rest of the oaths it's less clear since they could vary even more, oath of conquest is also likely to be tending towards demonic, oath of vengeance can also go there but they both could also technically go divine, oath of the crown can go with any of them since the crown they swear fealty too could be any of those, it could be a fiend or an archfey, or any other type of being. Oath of the watchers too could go for any of the three, there really is no restrictions here.
Again, back to warlock, literally, there is no argument for them summoning mounts here, you straight up just ignore the point because you don't like it but Warlocks make pacts with patrons, why would they waste their time to learn how to summon a mount when they could instead learn things like dimension door, blink, misty step, thunder step, plane shift or heck, the fly spell. This makes no real sense here, there is no thematic reason that a warlock would want such a mount to begin with, they aren't using lances and they have no ability to protect the mount in battle, the mount would just be a burden in battle. If they want a pack animal, just buy or hire one, it's pretty cheap.
Thematically, in stories where people get mystical mounts come to them, they are never warlocks, they are warriors usually with a strong connection to a god, I already pointed out Bellerophon riding Pegasus.There is Arion, whom was an immortal horse ridden by Hercules, Sleipnir, Odin's 8-legged horse, Grani, the descendent of Sleipnir used by the hero sigurd on advice of Odin... you go through mystical mounts in history and thematically they either belong to gods or are used by heroes chosen by gods, they're much more thematically Paladin, they have literal zero theme match with Warlock, none at all, nada. In terms of the the feature it has always been a PALADIN feature, it is part of their CLASS IDENTITY. Stop trying to steal Paladin's class identity for nonsensical reasons.
I think you've further made a mistake in thinking that Warlocks are the summoning experts, they aren't. School of Conjuration Wizards are the summoning experts, Warlocks are more about forbidden knowledge and gaining power from their patron, which again, most Warlock patrons wouldn't own mounts, fiends rarely do, Archfey wouldn't, Celestial patrons might be "mounts" to begin with like unicorns and take great offence to the idea that a servant would want to ride on the back of a creature similar in shape to itself, the undying and undead are mainly things like liches and vampires, which again aren't really creatures known for using mounts, Great Old Ones... none of the patrons are really going to have forbidden knowledge or powers related to mounts, so it's just really not thematic at all for warlock.
You need a far more compelling argument than that Find Steed is Celestial, Demonic or Fey, if it's really such an issue then that can be removed to keep it paladin, BUT it really isn't a real issue. There is no need to say that Paladin's can't interact with Celestial, Fey or Demonic entities, many of their spells in fact do specifically interact with such creatures. Protection from Evil and Good, Detect Evil and Good, Magic Circle, Banishment & Banishing smite (sends creatures back to their plane of existence), Dispel Evil and Good, Summon Celestial. But let's also remember that the find steed ISN'T actually a Celestial, Fey or Demonic entity, it's a spirit that takes the appearance of one, well Paladin's also get Spirit Shroud. Further too that, Paladin has another feat, Divine Sense (not in UA thankfully) that was all about detecting demonic and celestial targets.
There is one exception I COULD see…Chainlocks having an invocation which transforms their familiar into a larger/rideable creature.