I really like it as a feature, it's very "on-brand" for a Genie patron. As for the best spell, you don't have to just pick one that's the only spell you ever get to use it for, do you? So why choose? But the first one that came to mind is Heroes' Feast. Limited Wish says you don't require the costly material components of the spell you wish for, and HF costs 1000 gold per use! :)
Like pdegan said, Heroes' Feast is a solid choice. But the great thing about that Limited Wish ability is that it makes you the ultimate clutch player. No matter what the party needs in the moment, you got it! Someone's about to drop ? Heal! Here's 70 hit points, boom! A party member is charmed, petrified, cursed, etc? Greater Restoration! Need somebody to help you fight? Summon Celestial! Want to give yourself a bit of insurance before a tough fight? Death Ward!
If you're Pact of the Blade, add your Lifedrinker invocation and your Genie's Wrath ability to a nice little Steel Wind Strike! Or maybe you want to mix up some out-of-combat shenanigans, can't do any better than Modify Memory! Or the whole party needs to get somewhere in a hurry? Transport Via Plants!
The greatest thing about that Limited Wish ability is that there is no "best spell" for it. That's the whole point! You can do dang near anything you need to in that moment. When all the chips are down and your party is staring down the barrel of a TPK, you just smile and wink and say, "I got this" and boom - you got it.
Heroes Feast is a terrible choice for Limited Wish because it is illegal....
Limited Wish
At 14th level, you entreat your patron to grant you a small wish. As an action, you can speak your desire to your Genie's Vessel, requesting the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower and has a casting time of 1 action. The spell can be from any class's spell list, and you don't need to meet the requirements in that spell, including costly components: the spell simply takes effect as part of this action.
How do you guys feel about the genie feature Limited Wish?
I think it's awesome.
Mechanically, it's a great implementation of one of the system's newer balancing tradeoffs... a potent feature that requires 1d4 days to recharge. And in terms of theme, it's also quite fitting, giving you a taste of being associated with an all-powerful wish-fulfilling entity without having to wait until level 17 when you can actually grab Wish as a Mystic Arcanum.
Also what do you think the best spell for its use is?
There's over 340 spells available to be used with the feature... I don't think anyone can claim any specific one of them as being the best spell. In fact, I think its versatility, being useful in almost any dire situation, is what makes it so potent.
I've got a character who just learned the feature, and I put together a sort of "cheat sheet" for him. Rather than simply listing good spells to pull from, the table it displays is divided into "needs." Choose what you need (healing, transportation, damage, etc.) and then choose the appropriate spell from the sub-list. Makes using the feature so much easier (and faster.)
How do you guys feel about the genie feature Limited Wish?
I think it's awesome.
Mechanically, it's a great implementation of one of the system's newer balancing tradeoffs... a potent feature that requires 1d4 days to recharge. And in terms of theme, it's also quite fitting, giving you a taste of being associated with an all-powerful wish-fulfilling entity without having to wait until level 17 when you can actually grab Wish as a Mystic Arcanum.
Also what do you think the best spell for its use is?
There's over 340 spells available to be used with the feature... I don't think anyone can claim any specific one of them as being the best spell. In fact, I think its versatility, being useful in almost any dire situation, is what makes it so potent.
I've got a character who just learned the feature, and I put together a sort of "cheat sheet" for him. Rather than simply listing good spells to pull from, the table it displays is divided into "needs." Choose what you need (healing, transportation, damage, etc.) and then choose the appropriate spell from the sub-list. Makes using the feature so much easier (and faster.)
Do you perhaps have this cheat sheet anywhere and are willing to share?
Damaging spells are listed in order of increasing damage to one single target, per round, multiplied by each "bolt/blast." The ones that cause area damage are noted. Spells listed in red are spells in other categories that still cause damage. All spells are presumed to be upcast to 6th-level.
Damaging spells are listed in order of increasing damage to one single target, per round, multiplied by each "bolt/blast." The ones that cause area damage are noted. Spells listed in red are spells in other categories that still cause damage. All spells are presumed to be upcast to 6th-level.
There's a fun thing to keep in mind regarding this feature that came up in one of our games I've really enjoyed using.
Because of the wording of Limited Wish, you aren't casting the spell; your patron is producing its effect. This means that it cannot be counterspelled and if it's a concentration spell, it should last the entire duration similar to if you were using a Glyph of Warding.
I've used both Tenser's Transformation and Tasha's Otherworldly Guise with this ability, and they become a lot more fun and viable. I've flavored it as my patron directly channeling their power through my character as a buffed up super mode.
There's a fun thing to keep in mind regarding this feature that came up in one of our games I've really enjoyed using.
Because of the wording of Limited Wish, you aren't casting the spell; your patron is producing it's effect. This means that it cannot be counterspelled and if it's a concentration spell, it should last the entire duration similar to if you were using a Glyph of Warding.
I've used both Tenser's Transformation and Tasha's Otherworldly Guise with this ability, and they become a lot more fun and viable. I've flavored it as my patron directly channeling their power through my character as a buffed up super mode.
The bit about concentration is sort of infamously ambiguous. People have discussed it since the UA, and as far as I know, no one with any authority has commented on it. I would point out that voiding the spell's concentration would make Limited Wish occasionally more powerful than the actual level 9 Wish spell, which probably isn't intended. Either way, no, it's not definitively how it works.
I'd also argue that the feature is not capable of upcasting spells at all. There's no reason to believe it does, as it doesn't use spell slots.
I'd also argue that the feature is not capable of upcasting spells at all. There's no reason to believe it does, as it doesn't use spell slots.
Hmm, I'm pretty sure this one is fairly settled. AFAIK, it's "unofficially official" that you can upcast spells to 8th level using Wish. And if you can do it with Wish, I don't see why you couldn't with Limited Wish.
The bit about concentration is sort of infamously ambiguous. People have discussed it since the UA, and as far as I know, no one with any authority has commented on it. I would point out that voiding the spell's concentration would make Limited Wish occasionally more powerful than the actual level 9 Wish spell, which probably isn't intended. Either way, no, it's not definitively how it works.
I'd also argue that the feature is not capable of upcasting spells at all. There's no reason to believe it does, as it doesn't use spell slots.
I personally think the concentration part is fairly counterbalanced by the fact it can take up to 4 long rests before you can use the feature again, versus being able to cast Wish once per long rest by the time you get access to it.
You're also locked into the fact that if you do decide to get Wish, you have to have it as an Arcanum spell so you can't take multiple 9th level spells the way you could with a Wizard, Sorcerer, or Bard (with Magical Secrets).
It can also trap you into a disadvantageous situation - in the example I gave with Tenser's Transformation, if you use Limited Wish to gain its effects, you're locked into it for the ten minutes and can't cast any spells.
The way we rule it at our table is that it bypasses concentration, but you can't use it to upcast a lower level spell at a higher level, and you can't cast a second concentration spell while it's up. It's worked pretty well in that case, but I agree it would be nice to get some official clarification on it.
It doesn’t need to be “counterbalanced” - Limited Wish is a 14th level feature, granted in a different tier of play than Wish, the ultimate expression of power. Wish is supposed to be better. The best, even. Your other argument, asserting that holding concentration for you is actually a bad thing, is just absurd. Your position here requires you to be disingenuous, and I think that’s pretty telling.
How do you guys feel about the genie feature Limited Wish? Also what do you think the best spell for its use is?
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
My Homebrew Please click it, they have my family.
Create Spelljamming Helm is a recent significant option.
I really like it as a feature, it's very "on-brand" for a Genie patron. As for the best spell, you don't have to just pick one that's the only spell you ever get to use it for, do you? So why choose? But the first one that came to mind is Heroes' Feast. Limited Wish says you don't require the costly material components of the spell you wish for, and HF costs 1000 gold per use! :)
Like pdegan said, Heroes' Feast is a solid choice. But the great thing about that Limited Wish ability is that it makes you the ultimate clutch player. No matter what the party needs in the moment, you got it! Someone's about to drop ? Heal! Here's 70 hit points, boom! A party member is charmed, petrified, cursed, etc? Greater Restoration! Need somebody to help you fight? Summon Celestial! Want to give yourself a bit of insurance before a tough fight? Death Ward!
If you're Pact of the Blade, add your Lifedrinker invocation and your Genie's Wrath ability to a nice little Steel Wind Strike! Or maybe you want to mix up some out-of-combat shenanigans, can't do any better than Modify Memory! Or the whole party needs to get somewhere in a hurry? Transport Via Plants!
The greatest thing about that Limited Wish ability is that there is no "best spell" for it. That's the whole point! You can do dang near anything you need to in that moment. When all the chips are down and your party is staring down the barrel of a TPK, you just smile and wink and say, "I got this" and boom - you got it.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Tayn of Darkwood. Human Life Cleric. Lvl 10.
Heroes Feast is a terrible choice for Limited Wish because it is illegal....
Limited Wish
At 14th level, you entreat your patron to grant you a small wish. As an action, you can speak your desire to your Genie's Vessel, requesting the effect of one spell that is 6th level or lower and has a casting time of 1 action. The spell can be from any class's spell list, and you don't need to meet the requirements in that spell, including costly components: the spell simply takes effect as part of this action.
Heroes Feast takes 10 min to cast.
I once used it for Revivify, the fact you don't need components really helped out there.
I am also here.
Am snek.
I think it's awesome.
Mechanically, it's a great implementation of one of the system's newer balancing tradeoffs... a potent feature that requires 1d4 days to recharge. And in terms of theme, it's also quite fitting, giving you a taste of being associated with an all-powerful wish-fulfilling entity without having to wait until level 17 when you can actually grab Wish as a Mystic Arcanum.
There's over 340 spells available to be used with the feature... I don't think anyone can claim any specific one of them as being the best spell. In fact, I think its versatility, being useful in almost any dire situation, is what makes it so potent.
I've got a character who just learned the feature, and I put together a sort of "cheat sheet" for him. Rather than simply listing good spells to pull from, the table it displays is divided into "needs." Choose what you need (healing, transportation, damage, etc.) and then choose the appropriate spell from the sub-list. Makes using the feature so much easier (and faster.)
Whistler
Titus - V. Human Battle Master Fighter 3 - [Pic] - [Pic2] - [Traits] - in Shadowglass
Locke - V. Human Shadow Monk 3 / Undead Warlock 2 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in FOW - DMless West Marches
Flèche - V. Human Swords Bard 10 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in The Scarlet Mist
Sterling - V. Human Bard 1 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
Do you perhaps have this cheat sheet anywhere and are willing to share?
I am also here.
Am snek.
Sure, it's basically just a Google Doc.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1camm8YkpV4tBmlGmUqaSXxJ_XpnXd9BaDCQyTSMF3Hc/edit?usp=sharing
Damaging spells are listed in order of increasing damage to one single target, per round, multiplied by each "bolt/blast." The ones that cause area damage are noted. Spells listed in red are spells in other categories that still cause damage. All spells are presumed to be upcast to 6th-level.
(Edited)
Whistler
Titus - V. Human Battle Master Fighter 3 - [Pic] - [Pic2] - [Traits] - in Shadowglass
Locke - V. Human Shadow Monk 3 / Undead Warlock 2 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in FOW - DMless West Marches
Flèche - V. Human Swords Bard 10 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in The Scarlet Mist
Sterling - V. Human Bard 1 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
Thanks dude! that's a really cool cheat sheet
I am also here.
Am snek.
This is really awesome thanks. 😊
FYI, I just tweaked the sheet to be easier to use for others (I had tuned it to the character I was using.)
Whistler
Titus - V. Human Battle Master Fighter 3 - [Pic] - [Pic2] - [Traits] - in Shadowglass
Locke - V. Human Shadow Monk 3 / Undead Warlock 2 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in FOW - DMless West Marches
Flèche - V. Human Swords Bard 10 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in The Scarlet Mist
Sterling - V. Human Bard 1 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
It’s great and very useful
There's a fun thing to keep in mind regarding this feature that came up in one of our games I've really enjoyed using.
Because of the wording of Limited Wish, you aren't casting the spell; your patron is producing its effect. This means that it cannot be counterspelled and if it's a concentration spell, it should last the entire duration similar to if you were using a Glyph of Warding.
I've used both Tenser's Transformation and Tasha's Otherworldly Guise with this ability, and they become a lot more fun and viable. I've flavored it as my patron directly channeling their power through my character as a buffed up super mode.
This is a really good point! I like that
I am also here.
Am snek.
Oooh really? Is that how that works? That's really cool, I didn't know that!
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
My Homebrew Please click it, they have my family.
The bit about concentration is sort of infamously ambiguous. People have discussed it since the UA, and as far as I know, no one with any authority has commented on it. I would point out that voiding the spell's concentration would make Limited Wish occasionally more powerful than the actual level 9 Wish spell, which probably isn't intended. Either way, no, it's not definitively how it works.
I'd also argue that the feature is not capable of upcasting spells at all. There's no reason to believe it does, as it doesn't use spell slots.
Hmm, I'm pretty sure this one is fairly settled. AFAIK, it's "unofficially official" that you can upcast spells to 8th level using Wish. And if you can do it with Wish, I don't see why you couldn't with Limited Wish.
(Here's Jeremy Crawford's tweet regarding the matter: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/930977942305251329)
Whistler
Titus - V. Human Battle Master Fighter 3 - [Pic] - [Pic2] - [Traits] - in Shadowglass
Locke - V. Human Shadow Monk 3 / Undead Warlock 2 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in FOW - DMless West Marches
Flèche - V. Human Swords Bard 10 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in The Scarlet Mist
Sterling - V. Human Bard 1 - [Pic] - [Traits] - in Bards: Dragon Heist
>> New FOW threat & treasure tables: fow-advanced-threat-tables.pdf fow-advanced-treasure-table.pdf
I personally think the concentration part is fairly counterbalanced by the fact it can take up to 4 long rests before you can use the feature again, versus being able to cast Wish once per long rest by the time you get access to it.
You're also locked into the fact that if you do decide to get Wish, you have to have it as an Arcanum spell so you can't take multiple 9th level spells the way you could with a Wizard, Sorcerer, or Bard (with Magical Secrets).
It can also trap you into a disadvantageous situation - in the example I gave with Tenser's Transformation, if you use Limited Wish to gain its effects, you're locked into it for the ten minutes and can't cast any spells.
The way we rule it at our table is that it bypasses concentration, but you can't use it to upcast a lower level spell at a higher level, and you can't cast a second concentration spell while it's up. It's worked pretty well in that case, but I agree it would be nice to get some official clarification on it.
It doesn’t need to be “counterbalanced” - Limited Wish is a 14th level feature, granted in a different tier of play than Wish, the ultimate expression of power. Wish is supposed to be better. The best, even. Your other argument, asserting that holding concentration for you is actually a bad thing, is just absurd. Your position here requires you to be disingenuous, and I think that’s pretty telling.