Hi i got a question about the invocation that let me cast Find familiar with a magic action
my DM pointed out that i have to cast for a Hour each Turn to comply with the 1 hour casting time and the magic action says if you cast a spell with a magic action with a casting time more than 1 Action you have to use the magic action each round for the duration of the casting time.
Dnd Beyond displays the spell at will with a casting time of 1 action
im paraphrasing bc im not sure if i can copy direct from the Rulebook
so tldr
How much ist the casting time with the pact of the chain invocation 1 action or for 1 hour the taking magic action?
thanks in advance for the answers
and please give sources that i can use to keep it as a singel action
one action. Warlocks can summon their familiar in one action, everyone else needs a hour. Though I guess a certain feat or a dip will get others 1 action familiars.
Its a great invocation at level 1, not so great at level 10.
You learn the FF Spell and cast ist with a magic action
so far so good but if you look up magic action :
....
If you cast a spell with this action and that has a casting time more than a Minute you have to take the action (while concentrating) each turn
Bc of the phrasing of how a magic action works ill say it will take the warlock 1 hour of casting time
Why would the book specify that you can cast it as a Magic action if that's how it always worked? The Archfey warlock's Steps of the Fey doesn't say you can cast Misty Step as a bonus action. Why not? Because that's how it always works. And why would it say you don't spend a spell slot? In case you really, really want to take 60 minutes to cast it instead of 70? That's the benefit? None of this makes sense. It's obvious you cast it as one Magic action.
Besides, your quote doesn't apply. It says you have to take the magic action each turn. So it wouldn't say you can cast it as a Magic action, but as 600 Magic actions.
Thanks for you aswer but as well you didnt put in any offical sources.
in case im not allowed to quote from the new handbook please let me know in i remove the quotes
but in case im allowed
i can quote from the Chapter 7 Spell´s in the Casting time section
"Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required."
Than look at longer casting time same chapter:
"Certain spells—including a spell cast as a Ritual—require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. While you cast a spell with a casting time of 1 minute or more, you must take the Magic action on each of your turns, and you must maintain Concentration (see the rules glossary) while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. To cast the spell again, you must start over."
than look under the Magic action desription:
"When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot."
and look at the wording of the invocation:
"You learn the Find Familiar spell and can cast it as a Magic action without expending a spell slot.
Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack of its own with its Reaction."
you cast the newly an hour long spell not with the Study or hide action You cast it like most of the spells that dont require an reaction or bonusaction as a Magic action and in no shape or form or anything is it clear that the wording of the Invocation give a casttime reduction it just let you cast a spell the spell take an hour to cast so yes you have to maintain concentration for 600 magic actions.
i even rewatched Tod´s interview with Jeremy and there is no mention ( until minute 14ish when subclasses start) that they can cast it as an action.
at least its how i read this - to be fair im not an english native speaker im selfstudy but please show me the source of the cast time reduction thank you :=)
Okay, you're not gonna like this, but this is your source: PHB p. 57. "You learn the Find Familiar spell and can cast it as a Magic action without expending a spell slot." That's it. That's all you need to know how warlocks cast Find Familiar through Pact of the Chain. If you choose to read it differently, be my guest. But you're wrong. And no, you won't find any extra source, like Jeremy talking about this, because it's so obvious that nobody ever asks it and they never feel like it requires clarification. You might be the only person who thinks it takes warlocks an hour to cast Find Familiar through Pact of the Chain. Jeremy sometimes replies to direct messages, if you want to try. Those are not official rulings, but might be what you're looking for. But other than that, don't overthink this. It says "A Magic action". That means an action, not 600 actions.
I dont Find it obvious i find it clear that it´s an hour casttime and how you cast it is with the magic action that is really clear about how to cast spells wich are 1 minute or longer
That Archfey example does not fit bc it takes an bonus action. Even in your quote the FF spell it says casting time one hour.
and any spell that isnt a reaction or a bonus action is a magic action no matter how long the casttime is.
I dont Find it obvious i find it clear that it´s an hour casttime and how you cast it is with the magic action that is really clear about how to cast spells wich are 1 minute or longer
That Archfey example does not fit bc it takes an bonus action. Even in your quote the FF spell it says casting time one hour.
and any spell that isnt a reaction or a bonus action is a magic action no matter how long the casttime is.
Like I said, you read it the way you choose to read it. If you're the DM you're free to rule it that way. If your DM chooses to rule it that way, they're also free to do so. You asked how long it takes to cast and for sources, I gave you both. I can't do anything else if you interpret it differently.
I genuinely doubt you'll ever find an official rule about that, though. Like I said, there's no reason why a different section of the book, or Jeremy Crawford, would ever talk about this again. It's already written there. And if more people reply to this thread I would be very surprised if anyone agreed with you.
I dont Find it obvious i find it clear that it´s an hour casttime and how you cast it is with the magic action that is really clear about how to cast spells wich are 1 minute or longer
That Archfey example does not fit bc it takes an bonus action. Even in your quote the FF spell it says casting time one hour.
and any spell that isnt a reaction or a bonus action is a magic action no matter how long the casttime is.
Like I said, you read it the way you choose to read it. If you're the DM you're free to rule it that way. If your DM chooses to rule it that way, they're also free to do so. You asked how long it takes to cast and for sources, I gave you both. I can't do anything else if you interpret it differently.
I genuinely doubt you'll ever find an official rule about that, though. Like I said, there's no reason why a different section of the book, or Jeremy Crawford, would ever talk about this again. It's already written there. And if more people reply to this thread I would be very surprised if anyone agreed with you.
Thanks again for your answer i agree that´s the dm ´s final call and my dm (and me as a warlock player as well ) see´s it clear as hour long spell. unless it says it otherwise could be the language barrier and i dont doubt that RAI is how you read it.
Okay. The basic rules for casting spells says this. Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.
The word "but" means some times its not a magic action, not that it is a magic action each round for a minute for example as its the magic action that takes an action which obviously does not work with a reaction spell for example. If it were as you suggest the wording would be Spells require the magic action a magic action can be a action, a bonus action, a reaction or a continuous action for 1 minute or longer. A spell's casting time entry specifies how long the magic action will take.
So as is spells normally take a magic action, but other times its a totally different action such as a reaction or just a 1 minute cast or 1 hour cast. The invocation lets you know that you are now casting that spell but with a magic action not a 1 hour cast.
And if you look at the highlighted green part of magic it species that the magic action is only for spells that take an action to cast. "When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated." In other words the magic action is only for spells that take one action to cast. Not spells that take 1 minute or one hour to cast. So either the invocation does nothing as its a one hour cast spell and a magic action can not do that or it turned the one hour cast spell into a one action cast spell for the invocation.
Okay. The basic rules for casting spells says this. Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.
The word "but" means some times its not a magic action, not that it is a magic action each round for a minute for example as its the magic action that takes an action which obviously does not work with a reaction spell for example. If it were as you suggest the wording would be Spells require the magic action a magic action can be a action, a bonus action, a reaction or a continuous action for 1 minute or longer. A spell's casting time entry specifies how long the magic action will take.
So as is spells normally take a magic action, but other times its a totally different action such as a reaction or just a 1 minute cast or 1 hour cast. The invocation lets you know that you are now casting that spell but with a magic action not a 1 hour cast.
And if you look at the highlighted green part of magic it species that the magic action is only for spells that take an action to cast. "When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated." In other words the magic action is only for spells that take one action to cast. Not spells that take 1 minute or one hour to cast. So either the invocation does nothing as its a one hour cast spell and a magic action can not do that or it turned the one hour cast spell into a one action cast spell for the invocation.
Thanks for your answer but the 2. Part of this magic action says
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. See also “Concentration.”
So you need the magic action to cast it fine so far but the magic action itself is not only for spells that require 1action to cast in fact i would argue that any spell that not need a bonus action or reaction to cast is in gameterms a magic action.
For example if the party faces the bbe that is about to finish his spell in like 3 rounds so the players need to get there and break the ritual to become a lich or summon his familiar? whatever wich action the bbe takes during his turns? The magic action.
So its clear that you take the magic action not only for spells that takes only one action. It only resembles wich action you have to take during combat.
So back to the original question why should the pact of the chain invocation let you cast it as a single action? Its not clear at all. You can cast it with a magic action and you need to do so for an hour after you start. I wont cost you a spell slot and its 10 minutes earlier finish as if you cast it as a ritual. There is no casting time reduction mentioned.
Okay. The basic rules for casting spells says this. Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.
The word "but" means some times its not a magic action, not that it is a magic action each round for a minute for example as its the magic action that takes an action which obviously does not work with a reaction spell for example. If it were as you suggest the wording would be Spells require the magic action a magic action can be a action, a bonus action, a reaction or a continuous action for 1 minute or longer. A spell's casting time entry specifies how long the magic action will take.
So as is spells normally take a magic action, but other times its a totally different action such as a reaction or just a 1 minute cast or 1 hour cast. The invocation lets you know that you are now casting that spell but with a magic action not a 1 hour cast.
And if you look at the highlighted green part of magic it species that the magic action is only for spells that take an action to cast. "When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated." In other words the magic action is only for spells that take one action to cast. Not spells that take 1 minute or one hour to cast. So either the invocation does nothing as its a one hour cast spell and a magic action can not do that or it turned the one hour cast spell into a one action cast spell for the invocation.
Thanks for your answer but the 2. Part of this magic action says
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. See also “Concentration.”
So you need the magic action to cast it fine so far but the magic action itself is not only for spells that require 1action to cast in fact i would argue that any spell that not need a bonus action or reaction to cast is in gameterms a magic action.
For example if the party faces the bbe that is about to finish his spell in like 3 rounds so the players need to get there and break the ritual to become a lich or summon his familiar? whatever wich action the bbe takes during his turns? The magic action.
So its clear that you take the magic action not only for spells that takes only one action. It only resembles wich action you have to take during combat.
So back to the original question why should the pact of the chain invocation let you cast it as a single action? Its not clear at all. You can cast it with a magic action and you need to do so for an hour after you start. I wont cost you a spell slot and its 10 minutes earlier finish as if you cast it as a ritual. There is no casting time reduction mentioned.
Yes, when the action to take it is just magic action its just a action. When the time to cast it is longer it is phrased as 1 minute or 1 hour. But whenever you say cast as a magic action it is just an action per the first part of that. If it was a hour they would just say its a hour cast time. Go through every other spell is its cast time action(1 minute) or just one minute. Because that is what a magic action is, a action. They would not need to mention casting it as a magic action if the casting time remains 1 hour, like in otherworldly leap the just say you can cast jump at will. They don't mention the action used or its cast time because its the same as the spell. By telling you its a magic action to cast it is different than its normal cast time.
Thanks for you aswer but as well you didnt put in any offical sources.
in case im not allowed to quote from the new handbook please let me know in i remove the quotes
but in case im allowed
i can quote from the Chapter 7 Spell´s in the Casting time section
"Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required."
Than look at longer casting time same chapter:
"Certain spells—including a spell cast as a Ritual—require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. While you cast a spell with a casting time of 1 minute or more, you must take the Magic action on each of your turns, and you must maintain Concentration (see the rules glossary) while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. To cast the spell again, you must start over."
than look under the Magic action desription:
"When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot."
and look at the wording of the invocation:
"You learn the Find Familiar spell and can cast it as a Magic action without expending a spell slot.
Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack of its own with its Reaction."
you cast the newly an hour long spell not with the Study or hide action You cast it like most of the spells that dont require an reaction or bonusaction as a Magic action and in no shape or form or anything is it clear that the wording of the Invocation give a casttime reduction it just let you cast a spell the spell take an hour to cast so yes you have to maintain concentration for 600 magic actions.
i even rewatched Tod´s interview with Jeremy and there is no mention ( until minute 14ish when subclasses start) that they can cast it as an action.
at least its how i read this - to be fair im not an english native speaker im selfstudy but please show me the source of the cast time reduction thank you :=)
I think you are forgetting that in all rules, specific beats general. If Pact of the Chain worked as you interpret, then the phrase “and cast it as a magic action” would be unnecessary. They could simply state that you cast it without a spell slot and then the general rules of requiring a magic action over 1 hr to cast it would apply. They very specifically state an action casting time even though this spell cannot normally be cast as a single action. By including this phrase, they are creating a specific rule which overrides the definition of the normal magic action language as it applies to this particular way of casting Find Familiar. This in turn means the second paragraph regarding longer casting times does not apply to this method of casting Find Familiar.
You can further tell this is a deliberate choice to reduce the casting time because in the 2014 version of this feature, it specifically requires the spell be cast as a ritual which meant you could only cast it in 70 minutes vs 60 minutes. When a feature goes out of its way to change the language on how you interact with a dependent feature, then you no longer rely on the general language of the dependent feature you are interacting with. You follow the new rule established by your feature. Hope that helps.
I dont Find it obvious i find it clear that it´s an hour casttime and how you cast it is with the magic action that is really clear about how to cast spells wich are 1 minute or longer
That Archfey example does not fit bc it takes an bonus action. Even in your quote the FF spell it says casting time one hour.
and any spell that isnt a reaction or a bonus action is a magic action no matter how long the casttime is.
Like I said, you read it the way you choose to read it. If you're the DM you're free to rule it that way. If your DM chooses to rule it that way, they're also free to do so. You asked how long it takes to cast and for sources, I gave you both. I can't do anything else if you interpret it differently.
I genuinely doubt you'll ever find an official rule about that, though. Like I said, there's no reason why a different section of the book, or Jeremy Crawford, would ever talk about this again. It's already written there. And if more people reply to this thread I would be very surprised if anyone agreed with you.
Thanks again for your answer i agree that´s the dm ´s final call and my dm (and me as a warlock player as well ) see´s it clear as hour long spell. unless it says it otherwise could be the language barrier and i dont doubt that RAI is how you read it.
As you say yourself, the problem is the language barrier.
So, if native speakers tell you, that, without doubt, 'a Magic action' means 'one (1) Magic action' in the case, you can believe them.
If you need an additional proof from the rules beyond the invocation description, you can only point to the Basic Rules 2024 side bar 'Exceptions Supersede General Rules' in the Rhythm Of Play chapter. (I have no page numbers, as I don't have a physical copy, yet.)
That said, 'Rule 0' always applies first: your DM is the final judge how the rules work in your game.
I dont Find it obvious i find it clear that it´s an hour casttime and how you cast it is with the magic action that is really clear about how to cast spells wich are 1 minute or longer
That Archfey example does not fit bc it takes an bonus action. Even in your quote the FF spell it says casting time one hour.
and any spell that isnt a reaction or a bonus action is a magic action no matter how long the casttime is.
Like I said, you read it the way you choose to read it. If you're the DM you're free to rule it that way. If your DM chooses to rule it that way, they're also free to do so. You asked how long it takes to cast and for sources, I gave you both. I can't do anything else if you interpret it differently.
I genuinely doubt you'll ever find an official rule about that, though. Like I said, there's no reason why a different section of the book, or Jeremy Crawford, would ever talk about this again. It's already written there. And if more people reply to this thread I would be very surprised if anyone agreed with you.
Thanks again for your answer i agree that´s the dm ´s final call and my dm (and me as a warlock player as well ) see´s it clear as hour long spell. unless it says it otherwise could be the language barrier and i dont doubt that RAI is how you read it.
As you say yourself, the problem is the language barrier.
So, if native speakers tell you, that, without doubt, 'a Magic action' means 'one (1) Magic action' in the case, you can believe them.
If you need an additional proof from the rules beyond the invocation description, you can only point to the Basic Rules 2024 side bar 'Exceptions Supersede General Rules' in the Rhythm Of Play chapter. (I have no page numbers, as I don't have a physical copy, yet.)
That said, 'Rule 0' always applies first: your DM is the final judge how the rules work in your game.
I'm pretty sure it's not a language barrier problem. I'm also not a native speaker, for starters, and it's pretty clear to me. And second, and most important, they're already married to the idea that the casting time is 1 hour. They keep repeating "I want a source". So logic won't work here, they basically need Jeremy Crawford himself to explain the same that we've been saying, or find a page in the book that says "When you cast Find Familiar by using Pact of the Chain, it doesn't take one hour to cast, but only one action of six seconds." Of course that's never, ever going to be written in any official source, but short of that, I doubt anything will work.
I dont Find it obvious i find it clear that it´s an hour casttime and how you cast it is with the magic action that is really clear about how to cast spells wich are 1 minute or longer
That Archfey example does not fit bc it takes an bonus action. Even in your quote the FF spell it says casting time one hour.
and any spell that isnt a reaction or a bonus action is a magic action no matter how long the casttime is.
It's an hour to cast it as a ritual with no spell slot used. As a spell, it's a magic action that costs the spell slot. For a warlock, you can cast the spell, as an action, without using a spell slot. It's an edge case, that doesn't work the same way for chain warlocks as it does everyone else.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Sorry for the bit of necromancy, but I went searching to confirm if I was reading the casting time for Find Familiar correctly for Pact of Chain and found this. At least this thread is about the 2024 rules.
It's an hour to cast it as a ritual with no spell slot used. As a spell, it's a magic action that costs the spell slot. For a warlock, you can cast the spell, as an action, without using a spell slot. It's an edge case, that doesn't work the same way for chain warlocks as it does everyone else.
Minor correction, spells take an additional 10 minutes to cast as a ritual.
Certain spells have the Ritual tag in the Casting Time entry. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or it can be cast as a Ritual. The Ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal, but it doesn’t expend a spell slot. To cast a spell as a Ritual, a spellcaster must have it prepared.
So, casting Find Familiar for most people characters takes 1 hour using a spell slot. When casting it as a ritual, it takes 1 hour and 10 minutes. When a Pact of the Chain Warlock casts it, it takes 1 action without using a spell slot and, arguably, they cannot cast it as ritual even if there was an advantage to so ("learned" does not equate to prepared).
Also something to note I am pretty sure that while pact of the chain bypasses the casting time and the spell slot for find familiar it does not appear to bypass the material component cost. So each time it is still 10 gold worth of materials to cast.
Also something to note I am pretty sure that while pact of the chain bypasses the casting time and the spell slot for find familiar it does not appear to bypass the material component cost. So each time it is still 10 gold worth of materials to cast.
Just in case anyone stumbles upon this topic with the same question, or who has a DM who reads/thinks that "as a Magic action" still means you have to take a magic action 600 times as a Pact of Chain Warlock- take heart...
If you create a warlock and pick Pact of the Chain, go to your character sheet- the Find Familiar spell clearly shows that the Eldritch Invocations Find Familiar (ie PotC) has a casting time of 1A. Open the spell and it says, "Casting Time: 1 action".
If you make a wizard/etc and give them find familiar the casting time is "1h+10min". So RAW and RAI the Pact of the Chain must mean a single magic action- not 600 actions.
I know this post is 4 months after the last post and maybe this wasn't fully implemented in dndBeyond at that time, but I literally just had this happen the other night to me (as the warlock). So if reason fails, open the character sheet and see if/what the coding actuallly has to "say" about it.
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Hi i got a question about the invocation that let me cast Find familiar with a magic action
my DM pointed out that i have to cast for a Hour each Turn to comply with the 1 hour casting time and the magic action says if you cast a spell with a magic action with a casting time more than 1 Action you have to use the magic action each round for the duration of the casting time.
Dnd Beyond displays the spell at will with a casting time of 1 action
im paraphrasing bc im not sure if i can copy direct from the Rulebook
so tldr
How much ist the casting time with the pact of the chain invocation 1 action or for 1 hour the taking magic action?
thanks in advance for the answers
and please give sources that i can use to keep it as a singel action
one action. Warlocks can summon their familiar in one action, everyone else needs a hour. Though I guess a certain feat or a dip will get others 1 action familiars.
Its a great invocation at level 1, not so great at level 10.
Can you give a source please?
Becourse i disagree.
You learn the FF Spell and cast ist with a magic action
so far so good but if you look up magic action :
....
If you cast a spell with this action and that has a casting time more than a Minute you have to take the action (while concentrating) each turn
Bc of the phrasing of how a magic action works ill say it will take the warlock 1 hour of casting time
Why would the book specify that you can cast it as a Magic action if that's how it always worked? The Archfey warlock's Steps of the Fey doesn't say you can cast Misty Step as a bonus action. Why not? Because that's how it always works. And why would it say you don't spend a spell slot? In case you really, really want to take 60 minutes to cast it instead of 70? That's the benefit? None of this makes sense. It's obvious you cast it as one Magic action.
Besides, your quote doesn't apply. It says you have to take the magic action each turn. So it wouldn't say you can cast it as a Magic action, but as 600 Magic actions.
Thanks for you aswer but as well you didnt put in any offical sources.
in case im not allowed to quote from the new handbook please let me know in i remove the quotes
but in case im allowed
i can quote from the Chapter 7 Spell´s in the Casting time section
"Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required."
Than look at longer casting time same chapter:
"Certain spells—including a spell cast as a Ritual—require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. While you cast a spell with a casting time of 1 minute or more, you must take the Magic action on each of your turns, and you must maintain Concentration (see the rules glossary) while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. To cast the spell again, you must start over."
than look under the Magic action desription:
"When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated.
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot."
and look at the wording of the invocation:
"You learn the Find Familiar spell and can cast it as a Magic action without expending a spell slot.
When you cast the spell, you choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: Imp, Pseudodragon, Quasit, Skeleton, Slaad Tadpole, Sphinx of Wonder, Sprite, or Venomous Snake (see appendix B for the familiar’s stat block).
Additionally, when you take the Attack action, you can forgo one of your own attacks to allow your familiar to make one attack of its own with its Reaction."
you cast the newly an hour long spell not with the Study or hide action You cast it like most of the spells that dont require an reaction or bonusaction as a Magic action and in no shape or form or anything is it clear that the wording of the Invocation give a casttime reduction it just let you cast a spell the spell take an hour to cast so yes you have to maintain concentration for 600 magic actions.
i even rewatched Tod´s interview with Jeremy and there is no mention ( until minute 14ish when subclasses start) that they can cast it as an action.
at least its how i read this - to be fair im not an english native speaker im selfstudy but please show me the source of the cast time reduction thank you :=)
Okay, you're not gonna like this, but this is your source: PHB p. 57. "You learn the Find Familiar spell and can cast it as a Magic action without expending a spell slot." That's it. That's all you need to know how warlocks cast Find Familiar through Pact of the Chain. If you choose to read it differently, be my guest. But you're wrong. And no, you won't find any extra source, like Jeremy talking about this, because it's so obvious that nobody ever asks it and they never feel like it requires clarification. You might be the only person who thinks it takes warlocks an hour to cast Find Familiar through Pact of the Chain. Jeremy sometimes replies to direct messages, if you want to try. Those are not official rulings, but might be what you're looking for. But other than that, don't overthink this. It says "A Magic action". That means an action, not 600 actions.
Thank you for your reply
I dont Find it obvious i find it clear that it´s an hour casttime and how you cast it is with the magic action that is really clear about how to cast spells wich are 1 minute or longer
That Archfey example does not fit bc it takes an bonus action. Even in your quote the FF spell it says casting time one hour.
and any spell that isnt a reaction or a bonus action is a magic action no matter how long the casttime is.
Like I said, you read it the way you choose to read it. If you're the DM you're free to rule it that way. If your DM chooses to rule it that way, they're also free to do so. You asked how long it takes to cast and for sources, I gave you both. I can't do anything else if you interpret it differently.
I genuinely doubt you'll ever find an official rule about that, though. Like I said, there's no reason why a different section of the book, or Jeremy Crawford, would ever talk about this again. It's already written there. And if more people reply to this thread I would be very surprised if anyone agreed with you.
Thanks again for your answer i agree that´s the dm ´s final call and my dm (and me as a warlock player as well ) see´s it clear as hour long spell. unless it says it otherwise could be the language barrier and i dont doubt that RAI is how you read it.
Okay. The basic rules for casting spells says this. Most spells require the Magic action to cast, but some spells require a Bonus Action, a Reaction, or 1 minute or more. A spell’s Casting Time entry specifies which of those is required.
The word "but" means some times its not a magic action, not that it is a magic action each round for a minute for example as its the magic action that takes an action which obviously does not work with a reaction spell for example. If it were as you suggest the wording would be Spells require the magic action a magic action can be a action, a bonus action, a reaction or a continuous action for 1 minute or longer. A spell's casting time entry specifies how long the magic action will take.
So as is spells normally take a magic action, but other times its a totally different action such as a reaction or just a 1 minute cast or 1 hour cast. The invocation lets you know that you are now casting that spell but with a magic action not a 1 hour cast.
And if you look at the highlighted green part of magic it species that the magic action is only for spells that take an action to cast. "When you take the Magic action, you cast a spell that has a casting time of an action or use a feature or magic item that requires a Magic action to be activated." In other words the magic action is only for spells that take one action to cast. Not spells that take 1 minute or one hour to cast. So either the invocation does nothing as its a one hour cast spell and a magic action can not do that or it turned the one hour cast spell into a one action cast spell for the invocation.
Thanks for your answer but the 2. Part of this magic action says
If you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 minute or longer, you must take the Magic action on each turn of that casting, and you must maintain Concentration while you do so. If your Concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. See also “Concentration.”
So you need the magic action to cast it fine so far but the magic action itself is not only for spells that require 1action to cast in fact i would argue that any spell that not need a bonus action or reaction to cast is in gameterms a magic action.
For example if the party faces the bbe that is about to finish his spell in like 3 rounds so the players need to get there and break the ritual to become a lich or summon his familiar? whatever wich action the bbe takes during his turns? The magic action.
So its clear that you take the magic action not only for spells that takes only one action. It only resembles wich action you have to take during combat.
So back to the original question why should the pact of the chain invocation let you cast it as a single action? Its not clear at all. You can cast it with a magic action and you need to do so for an hour after you start. I wont cost you a spell slot and its 10 minutes earlier finish as if you cast it as a ritual. There is no casting time reduction mentioned.
Yes, when the action to take it is just magic action its just a action. When the time to cast it is longer it is phrased as 1 minute or 1 hour. But whenever you say cast as a magic action it is just an action per the first part of that. If it was a hour they would just say its a hour cast time. Go through every other spell is its cast time action(1 minute) or just one minute. Because that is what a magic action is, a action. They would not need to mention casting it as a magic action if the casting time remains 1 hour, like in otherworldly leap the just say you can cast jump at will. They don't mention the action used or its cast time because its the same as the spell. By telling you its a magic action to cast it is different than its normal cast time.
I think you are forgetting that in all rules, specific beats general. If Pact of the Chain worked as you interpret, then the phrase “and cast it as a magic action” would be unnecessary. They could simply state that you cast it without a spell slot and then the general rules of requiring a magic action over 1 hr to cast it would apply. They very specifically state an action casting time even though this spell cannot normally be cast as a single action. By including this phrase, they are creating a specific rule which overrides the definition of the normal magic action language as it applies to this particular way of casting Find Familiar. This in turn means the second paragraph regarding longer casting times does not apply to this method of casting Find Familiar.
You can further tell this is a deliberate choice to reduce the casting time because in the 2014 version of this feature, it specifically requires the spell be cast as a ritual which meant you could only cast it in 70 minutes vs 60 minutes. When a feature goes out of its way to change the language on how you interact with a dependent feature, then you no longer rely on the general language of the dependent feature you are interacting with. You follow the new rule established by your feature. Hope that helps.
As you say yourself, the problem is the language barrier.
So, if native speakers tell you, that, without doubt, 'a Magic action' means 'one (1) Magic action' in the case, you can believe them.
If you need an additional proof from the rules beyond the invocation description, you can only point to the Basic Rules 2024 side bar 'Exceptions Supersede General Rules' in the Rhythm Of Play chapter. (I have no page numbers, as I don't have a physical copy, yet.)
That said, 'Rule 0' always applies first: your DM is the final judge how the rules work in your game.
I'm pretty sure it's not a language barrier problem. I'm also not a native speaker, for starters, and it's pretty clear to me. And second, and most important, they're already married to the idea that the casting time is 1 hour. They keep repeating "I want a source". So logic won't work here, they basically need Jeremy Crawford himself to explain the same that we've been saying, or find a page in the book that says "When you cast Find Familiar by using Pact of the Chain, it doesn't take one hour to cast, but only one action of six seconds." Of course that's never, ever going to be written in any official source, but short of that, I doubt anything will work.
It's an hour to cast it as a ritual with no spell slot used. As a spell, it's a magic action that costs the spell slot. For a warlock, you can cast the spell, as an action, without using a spell slot. It's an edge case, that doesn't work the same way for chain warlocks as it does everyone else.
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Sorry for the bit of necromancy, but I went searching to confirm if I was reading the casting time for Find Familiar correctly for Pact of Chain and found this. At least this thread is about the 2024 rules.
Minor correction, spells take an additional 10 minutes to cast as a ritual.
So, casting Find Familiar for most people characters takes 1 hour using a spell slot. When casting it as a ritual, it takes 1 hour and 10 minutes. When a Pact of the Chain Warlock casts it, it takes 1 action without using a spell slot and, arguably, they cannot cast it as ritual even if there was an advantage to so ("learned" does not equate to prepared).
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Also something to note I am pretty sure that while pact of the chain bypasses the casting time and the spell slot for find familiar it does not appear to bypass the material component cost. So each time it is still 10 gold worth of materials to cast.
Yes. And the spell consumes it.
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Just in case anyone stumbles upon this topic with the same question, or who has a DM who reads/thinks that "as a Magic action" still means you have to take a magic action 600 times as a Pact of Chain Warlock- take heart...
If you create a warlock and pick Pact of the Chain, go to your character sheet- the Find Familiar spell clearly shows that the Eldritch Invocations Find Familiar (ie PotC) has a casting time of 1A. Open the spell and it says, "Casting Time: 1 action".
If you make a wizard/etc and give them find familiar the casting time is "1h+10min". So RAW and RAI the Pact of the Chain must mean a single magic action- not 600 actions.
I know this post is 4 months after the last post and maybe this wasn't fully implemented in dndBeyond at that time, but I literally just had this happen the other night to me (as the warlock). So if reason fails, open the character sheet and see if/what the coding actuallly has to "say" about it.