Well basically like the title says, what do you guys think of the war magics 6th level ability? I love the concept of the war magic tradition but the 6th level ability is so so terrible in my opinion, especially compared to its original UA ability. i thought about importing the potent cantrip ability from the evocation school, it would stack nicely with the arcane deflection ability, maybe thematically better than it does for the evocation school. Thoughts on that? Has anyone thought of or tried some creative fixes that keep it better?
I don’t mess with it - Arcane Deflection and Durable Magic are already super potent. Surging is a small ribbon benefit in comparison, but increasing it can lead to some crazy power creep when you get the later skills and abilities.
To me the 6th level ability should be something what fleshes out the class but isn't as ballin as the first. the power surge isn't even useful unless your coming up against spell casters, plus its single target, if it pumped damage to all targets of a spell and you got all the charges after a long rest it would be worth it. I like the theme and flavor of the class I just feel its very week once you hit 6th level when everyone else is getting much better abilities. I guess im in the minority though lol
Im actually gonna repost this in the dm's and homebrew forums, I kinda just realized the wizard player forum isn the best place. haha
It's certainly a situational ability. What I like most about it is it further incentivises smart play and positioning (to counterspell etc.) as a War Mage would. My second favourite thing about it is you can add the force damage to spells targeting objects, making it a good option for breaking down heavy doors. Again, that's fairly situational.
Compared to other schools, I'd say it's somewhat in the middle of the pack if maybe in the lower end of 6th level abilities. For the record, those include: Expert Divination, Potent Cantrips, Undead Thralls, Transmuter's Stone, Malleable Illusions, and Instinctive Charm amongst others.
Edit: If I were to suggest a change, it would be the ability to expend multiple charges with one casting. It adds most to the flavour of a power surge.
If I keep power surge then using more than 1 charge may be something I do, im also toying with the idea of allowing all charges to come back after a short rest and have it add damage to all creatures effected by a spell. I may play test all 3, If I do then adding the multiple charges will only add half the damage of it being a single charge. or I may have it be a selection between that ability and something else like a variation of potent cantrip ive used in the past that does something like this: you may have a cantrip that forces a saving throw effect 2 creatures that are within 5 feet of each other, if you do reduce the damage, either by half or reduce the die to a d6, and keep the damage die the same. If I can't make those idea work and balance then I may slide the traditional potent cantrip over or add damage to cantrips equal to the spell casting mod, alla cleric potent spellcasting
First of all, not all abilities are good. War Mage has a lot of really great stuff, they do not need more.
Secondly, it is clearly an anti-caster ability. If there is another caster around, my wizard will be counterspelling every round. Effectively I can get +1/2 my level every other round or more when facing a wizard. Nice boost, if not huge. Particularly on area effect spells.
yeah it is an anti caster ability but depending not he game and encounters there may be no casters rendering the ability all but useless. I just think its a crap ability. It's "war magic" it has 2 of its abilities that are straight defense only, 1 that has some offensive use at level 14, I'm just saying I think that the 6th level ability should be a useful offensive ability.
yeah it is an anti caster ability but depending not he game and encounters there may be no casters rendering the ability all but useless. I just think its a crap ability. It's "war magic" it has 2 of its abilities that are straight defense only, 1 that has some offensive use at level 14, I'm just saying I think that the 6th level ability should be a useful offensive ability.
Trying to add potency to a subclass that has some very powerful abilities would be dangerous. Yes, it’s an anti caster ability - but not too many classes have an anti-caster ability. And War Magic is not “Evocation Part 2”, it’s meant to give your mage substantial front-line potential. Semipermanent +2 to AC and *all* Saves is incredibly powerful, along with a reaction to boost that another +2 AC/+4 Saves means this subclass is all about absorbing damage.
Throwing something too powerful offensively at level 6 can lead to drastic power creep later on. Potent Cantrip allows you to negate the downside of using Arcane Deflection, for example.
Power Surge is also “per spell” that is Dispelled - a moderately-buffed opponent (haste, mage armor, Shield from a reaction) that is dispelled gives you 3 Surges and a bonus of 9 force damage at level 6. 30 damage at level 20.
Trying to make this class more offensive really encroaches on Evocation territory IMO, but to each their own. Be wary that this class feature scales very quickly later on.
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Well basically like the title says, what do you guys think of the war magics 6th level ability? I love the concept of the war magic tradition but the 6th level ability is so so terrible in my opinion, especially compared to its original UA ability. i thought about importing the potent cantrip ability from the evocation school, it would stack nicely with the arcane deflection ability, maybe thematically better than it does for the evocation school. Thoughts on that? Has anyone thought of or tried some creative fixes that keep it better?
I don’t mess with it - Arcane Deflection and Durable Magic are already super potent. Surging is a small ribbon benefit in comparison, but increasing it can lead to some crazy power creep when you get the later skills and abilities.
But it’s totally up to you. 🙂
To me the 6th level ability should be something what fleshes out the class but isn't as ballin as the first. the power surge isn't even useful unless your coming up against spell casters, plus its single target, if it pumped damage to all targets of a spell and you got all the charges after a long rest it would be worth it. I like the theme and flavor of the class I just feel its very week once you hit 6th level when everyone else is getting much better abilities. I guess im in the minority though lol
Im actually gonna repost this in the dm's and homebrew forums, I kinda just realized the wizard player forum isn the best place. haha
It's certainly a situational ability. What I like most about it is it further incentivises smart play and positioning (to counterspell etc.) as a War Mage would. My second favourite thing about it is you can add the force damage to spells targeting objects, making it a good option for breaking down heavy doors. Again, that's fairly situational.
Compared to other schools, I'd say it's somewhat in the middle of the pack if maybe in the lower end of 6th level abilities. For the record, those include: Expert Divination, Potent Cantrips, Undead Thralls, Transmuter's Stone, Malleable Illusions, and Instinctive Charm amongst others.
Edit: If I were to suggest a change, it would be the ability to expend multiple charges with one casting. It adds most to the flavour of a power surge.
If I keep power surge then using more than 1 charge may be something I do, im also toying with the idea of allowing all charges to come back after a short rest and have it add damage to all creatures effected by a spell. I may play test all 3, If I do then adding the multiple charges will only add half the damage of it being a single charge. or I may have it be a selection between that ability and something else like a variation of potent cantrip ive used in the past that does something like this: you may have a cantrip that forces a saving throw effect 2 creatures that are within 5 feet of each other, if you do reduce the damage, either by half or reduce the die to a d6, and keep the damage die the same. If I can't make those idea work and balance then I may slide the traditional potent cantrip over or add damage to cantrips equal to the spell casting mod, alla cleric potent spellcasting
Any thoughts on these ideas?
First of all, not all abilities are good. War Mage has a lot of really great stuff, they do not need more.
Secondly, it is clearly an anti-caster ability. If there is another caster around, my wizard will be counterspelling every round. Effectively I can get +1/2 my level every other round or more when facing a wizard. Nice boost, if not huge. Particularly on area effect spells.
yeah it is an anti caster ability but depending not he game and encounters there may be no casters rendering the ability all but useless. I just think its a crap ability. It's "war magic" it has 2 of its abilities that are straight defense only, 1 that has some offensive use at level 14, I'm just saying I think that the 6th level ability should be a useful offensive ability.
yeah it is an anti caster ability but depending not he game and encounters there may be no casters rendering the ability all but useless. I just think its a crap ability. It's "war magic" it has 2 of its abilities that are straight defense only, 1 that has some offensive use at level 14, I'm just saying I think that the 6th level ability should be a useful offensive ability.
Trying to add potency to a subclass that has some very powerful abilities would be dangerous. Yes, it’s an anti caster ability - but not too many classes have an anti-caster ability. And War Magic is not “Evocation Part 2”, it’s meant to give your mage substantial front-line potential. Semipermanent +2 to AC and *all* Saves is incredibly powerful, along with a reaction to boost that another +2 AC/+4 Saves means this subclass is all about absorbing damage.
Throwing something too powerful offensively at level 6 can lead to drastic power creep later on. Potent Cantrip allows you to negate the downside of using Arcane Deflection, for example.
Power Surge is also “per spell” that is Dispelled - a moderately-buffed opponent (haste, mage armor, Shield from a reaction) that is dispelled gives you 3 Surges and a bonus of 9 force damage at level 6. 30 damage at level 20.
Trying to make this class more offensive really encroaches on Evocation territory IMO, but to each their own. Be wary that this class feature scales very quickly later on.